It just donned on me why LE ultimately came to the conclusion this was the "work of a copy cat".

They found the guy who sent it…(and who obviously created both of these cards/letters) – the Dr. sent LE straight to his door.

See this thread ——-> viewtopic.php?f=76&t=62

…too bad they didn’t look for is hole puncher

…too bad they didn’t look for is hole puncher

Sacrilege!

…too bad they didn’t look for is hole puncher

Sacrilege!

And just to add so OBVIOUSLY the sender of the Pines card (poor Mr. Averly). What I would give for this guy’s name…

A threat via mail. Surely this guy was looked at, probably by more than just local police.

It just donned on me why LE ultimately came to the conclusion this was the "work of a copy cat".

They found the guy who sent it…(and who obviously created both of these cards/letters) – the Dr. sent LE straight to his door.

See this thread ——-> viewtopic.php?f=76&t=62

…too bad they didn’t look for is hole puncher

No they did not find the guy who sent it. Dr. Adams offered the name of someone he "believed" might have sent it. But there is no indication that further evidence showed this was the guy or that he was arrested. Likely when he got the threat Dr. Adams thought of a known enemy and/or angry (ex) patient and gave that name of that Berkeley resident to police.

Ricardo showed some interesting connections two Z suspects had to Dr. Adams. See http://www.mk-zodiac.com/Communication1 … eport.html

One was eccentric Z researcher Penn, who some consider a Z suspect. The connection was fairly attenuated but you can read about it at the link. The other was Ted Kaczynski. Ricardo shows a possible Ted K link to two associates of Dr. Adams. Ted also lived on Regent Street in Berkeley which was just one mile from Dr. Adams office in Berkeley. You can read about that at the link, and I also go into more detail about the connections between Dr. Adams and Ted Kaczynski, and Ted’s history of hatred and threats to psychiatrists, including specifically threatening a psychiatrist with the identical words "YOU ARE NEXT" here: http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtop … 102&t=2233

It seems like a logical conclusion. LE thinks it could be Zodiac, the doctor tells them of the man who he thinks mailed it, then the police change their conclusion to the work of a copycat.

But you are correct, I cannot say that with any certainty. I never suggested the guy was arrested. He would no doubt deny it. The fact is though, LE changed their opinion to the sender NOT being the Zodiac killer.

A psychiatrist would know their patient quite well. Considering the card was mailed from Berkeley and the guy named lived in Berkeley, I think it’s a fair guess the doctor was correct. Sounds like you too think the doctor was correct A.K. ?? Could that person have been Ted K? Sure. I have no clue who that person was. But I think it’s a safe bet that person was the sender of:

Oct 5th card – to the Editor of the S.F. Chronicle, gets published in an article by "Paul Avery"
October 12th card – Date of his published October 5 card. 10/12 date on this threat card to the doctor
The Halloween card – a new infatuation with "Paul AverLy" after the article about the Oct. 5 card written by Paul Avery gets published
The Pines card – "Paul AverLy", etc., etc.^^
…and the In the woods dies April photo/card

You all can disagree and think I’m nuts ( ), but there is a name in that FBI report and, imo, THAT is the man who sent all that stuff. The October 12th card being the most convincing to me that this was not the work of Zodiac.

It seems like a logical conclusion. LE thinks it could be Zodiac, the doctor tells them of the man who he thinks mailed it, then the police change their conclusion to the work of a copycat.

But you are correct, I cannot say that with any certainty. I never suggested the guy was arrested. He would no doubt deny it. The fact is though, LE changed their opinion to the sender NOT being the Zodiac killer.

A psychiatrist would know their patient quite well. Considering the card was mailed from Berkeley and the guy named lived in Berkeley, I think it’s a fair guess the doctor was correct. Sounds like you too think the doctor was correct A.K. ?? Could that person have been Ted K? Sure. I have no clue who that person was. But I think it’s a safe bet that person was the sender of:

Oct 5th card – to the Editor of the S.F. Chronicle, gets published in an article by "Paul Avery"
October 12th card – Date of his published October 5 card. 10/12 date on this threat card to the doctor
The Halloween card – a new infatuation with "Paul AverLy" after the article about the Oct. 5 card written by Paul Avery gets published
The Pines card – "Paul AverLy", etc., etc.^^
…and the In the woods dies April photo/card

You all can disagree and think I’m nuts ( ), but there is a name in that FBI report and, imo, THAT is the man who sent all that stuff. The October 12th card being the most convincing to me that this was not the work of Zodiac.

Well we have SFPD, Cal DOJ and the FBI. It is not clear to me who thought this card was likely Z or a copycat. Some of the cards you think were copycat I think were on a list of "confirmed" Z mailings as per SFPD for DNA purposes. I think this card and the others were likely from the real Z. At least two people I talked to in LE considered the Halloween card definite Zodiac and the Pines card as probably real Zodiac. I never discussed these other mailings. We have to agree to disagree about the authenticity of some of these mailings.

I am NOT suggesting Ted was the man named by Dr. Adams.

It is very unlikely that Ted would have been a patient of this doctor in the 1967-1969 time period. He hated psychiatrists. He only saw one at U of M because he needed the support of one for a sex change. Unless there was some unusual situation that we don’t know about in which he needed something from a psychiatrist in this 67-69 time period, he would not have seen one. And while this Dr. Adams may have come to Ted’s attention through his articles such as the nuclear war piece and/or his association with Dr. Murray, I doubt any circumstance happened were Dr. Adams became aware of Ted. I think the fact that Ted lived in Berkeley and the man Dr. Adams named as a suspect was a Berkeley resident is likely a coincidence.

Dr. Adams got this threatening card. Logically he would think "who that I know could have sent it?" He must have had someone who has an enemy, a professional rival maybe, maybe a romantic situation, or a business dispute, more likely a disturbed former or current patient. So he told police who he "believed" might have sent it. And I am sure police looked at that person. But we have what is represented as the entire unredacted FBI file. Mailing a threat is a federal offense. But nothing further is in the file about this person named by Dr. Adams, nothing about an arrest. So I assume he was looked at and either cleared or in any event no further evidence was found to prove he mailed this card.

The police may or may not have thought the "You Are Next" was likely the real Zodiac. And Dr. Adams did not mention the newspaper article or Zodiac, so he may not have realized that the newspaper article and/or his writings and/or association with Dr. Murray could have put him in the sites of the real Zodiac, a stranger to him personally.

I am suggesting that Ted had a prior history of hating psychiatrists (in 1966 wanting to kill his psychiatrist), had persistent dreams of murdering psychologists and other like people he regarded as practicing mind control, and would later threaten the psychiatrist Dr. Gerlenter with the exact same words "You Are Next".

Ricardo showed that Ted attended Harvard at the same time as Dr. Adams agent. And Ricardo showed that Dr. Adams worked with an associate who worked with Dr. Murray, who did experiments with Ted at Harvard. Ricardo also showed Dr. Adams wrote article on psychiatry after nuclear war that Ted would have hated enough so that Dr. Adams could have been on his death lists. And I showed that Ted lived one mile from Dr. Adams office. So there are several ways Dr. Adams could have come to Ted’s attention, including the newspaper articles on his big house and feminist wife, and Ted hated both feminists and psychiatrists, and had envy and hatred of people who were successful. He later mailed a bomb to a person based in part on a photo spread about that persons big house and success. Maybe Ted mailed this card, and as Foreigner showed, there are some good reasons to think the sender of this card sent in the other card, and may have been Zodiac. Let us continue any Ted focused discussion on the Ted thread here viewtopic.php?f=102&t=2233 and have general discussion about the card here.

I go into detail about the possible connections between Dr. Adams and Ted Kaczynski at the link above, and I am happy to answer questions and discuss Ted specifically there and have more general discussions about the card here. In brief, however, consider this about the "You Are Next" card:

In 1966, the first person Ted Kaczynski expresses a written desire to kill is a psychiatrist who he hates.

In 1970, Zodiac may have threatened a psychiatrist by telling him "YOU ARE NEXT".

In 1993, Ted Kaczynski threatened a psychiatrist by telling him "YOU ARE NEXT".

I have no interest (personally) to try and associate anyone with those cards. All I can say it that I (personally) think it is obvious who wrote them, or should I say–having all been created by the same person.

I flat out do not think Zodiac would write 13 victims twice so far apart. I think it is obvious those are not the work of Zodiac, but that’s just me and others will find ways to show they are. It is what it is.

Well we have SFPD, Cal DOJ and the FBI. It is not clear to me who thought this card was likely Z or a copycat. Some of the cards you think were copycat I think were on a list of "confirmed" Z mailings as per SFPD for DNA purposes. I think this card and the others were likely from the real Z. At least two people I talked to in LE considered the Halloween card definite Zodiac and the Pines card as probably real Zodiac. I never discussed these other mailings. We have to agree to disagree about the authenticity of some of these mailings.

The SFPD DNA info lists them as "suspected Zodiac correspondence", but interestingly, none of the cut & paste stuff was tested. I’m guessing with the expense, they felt it best to go with the items they were fairly positive was Zodiac–imo, the cut & paste stuff wasn’t at the top of the list. Limited hand writing–the FK I’m Crackproof had none at all. They’d have possible DNA from the stamp or skin cells in the glue, but…

Back then, all they really had to "confirm" was handwriting (or pieces of shirt) and we all know how that goes.

Testing DNA today (technology has changed going back even just a few years)…with "few cells" it could be a whole new ballgame.

This has a very good visual analysis by TheForeigner about similarities between this "Fk-I’m crackproof" and 13th victim claimed card and the "Zodiac is going to…You Are Next" card sent to Dr. Adams. Based on this and other evidence, I think most of us would tend to agree these two cards were likely done by the same person. Where reasonable people will still disagree is the question, was it the same Zodiac or the same hoaxer?

THEFOREIGNER:
Great job, AGAIN Morf ! Thank you VERY much:)

IMO the new Oct 12, 1970 card is created by the very same person as the person who created the probable Zodiac card of Oct 5, 1970. Created exactly 1 week apart.

Why?

Because:

1. the cut out day/date is probably from the same newspaper, exact same font.

2. both cards are signed with the name "Zodiac", and the name "Zodiac" in both cards are ALSO probably from the same newspaper, both in exact same font, only the Oct 5 is made by single cut out letters (NOT italics)and the Oct 12 is one single word cut out (this IS italics version of the font).

3. the crosshair symbols on the Oct 5 and the Oct 12 are very similar in their design.

————————————————————–
AK Wilks: Excellent work by our member Ricardo on the unredacted card "Zodiac is going to…You are next" which names Dr. Edward Adams.

http://www.mk-zodiac.com/Communication1 … eport.html

IMO this unredacted card is a major find, the biggest out of this new batch recovered by Morf.

IF this card is really from Zodiac, then there should be some connection or nexus between who Zodiac really was and this Dr. Adams.

At the link above, Ricardo has excellent large reproductions of the card, and analysis showing possible links between Dr. Adams and his circle of associates and TWO well known Zodiac suspects, Gareth Penn and Ted Kaczynski.

Ricardo’s website is http://www.mk-zodiac.com

Interesting material found by PORTOFLEITH.

She noted that the threat letter said "the adamses are next", meaning the couple Dr. Edward Adams and his wife.

Both he and his wife appeared in the newspapers, one was a Nov. 1968 multi page spread on their house and garden. Mrs. Adam was also active in women’s groups, library groups and feminism. The feminist event was noted in October 1969. Did this trigger "Zodiac"? Or was it the 1968 photo spread? Or all of the above? Or random?

Of course you know I think this person was a copycat.

Zodiac would NEVER (imo) months later still claim 13 victims and we have someone not wanting to show handwriting. This is all very much not like the massive amounts of Zodiac communiques.

Why would someone disguise their writing (none at all) to a psychiatrist (and more) then publicly write many, many more handwritten letters. It doesn’t make sense.

In my opinion, someone wanted to scare the crap out of their former doctor. What a better way than to use Zodiac. This person was obviously twisted and got off when his first card was published by "AverLy" and he took it from there.

I know people like to think almost all these questioned letters are Zodiac, but I think if one truly looks at it in a different light…you’ll see otherwise.

This was brought up in another thread on March 10th, 2015 and I thought it best to move it back here since it pertains to the FK Crackproof card and Vasa Croe’s awesome find with the comic strip:

Couldn’t find where I originally posted it here, but a while back I found another comic from a paper while doing some research on the FK Crackproof where he pasted "The pace isn’t getting any slower" It came from this comic:

There are so many comics connections it does make me wonder if this was someone that figured the comic connection out well before anyone else and used it, or if this was actually Z, or if it was someone else that knew Z and what Z was doing.

Thanks tahoe….I kept looking for it and getting confused on what thread I was on…..too many paste cards! Aaaahhhhhhh!

It’s a great find Vasa!

This was brought up in another thread on March 10th, 2015 and I thought it best to move it back here since it pertains to the FK Crackproof card and Vasa Croe’s awesome find with the comic strip:

Couldn’t find where I originally posted it here, but a while back I found another comic from a paper while doing some research on the FK Crackproof where he pasted "The pace isn’t getting any slower" It came from this comic:

There are so many comics connections it does make me wonder if this was someone that figured the comic connection out well before anyone else and used it, or if this was actually Z, or if it was someone else that knew Z and what Z was doing.

OBS… I am NOT saying that Bob Cordray is the Zodiac, I just think it is important to research him due to that the Zodiac apparently choose to use part of his strip in one of his possible communications.

The cartoonist who made the "Smidgens" strip was Robert Lee Cordray (nicknamed "Bob") Born Dec 16, 1929, died Aug 2, 2006

Of interest is the fact that he was born in Orange county (CA) neighbor county to Riverside County.
He lived in San Diego in 1966.
He ended up in Redding Sasha where he died 2006.

I have not found where he lived in 1968-1978 (zodiac timeline, I know some don’t believe the 1978)
have neither been able to find any photo of him but have found a couple of handwriting samples from him (I will post them in my next post).

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic … rhXSJydxgI

Robert (Bob) Cordray
ca. 1930 – August 2, 2006
"Smidgens", "Alex in Wonderland"

Robert Cordray in the U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014

Name: Robert Cordray
Last Residence:
96003 Redding, Shasta, California
BORN: 16 Dec 1929
Died: 2 Aug 2006
State (Year) SSN issued:

Robert Lee Cordray in the California Birth Index, 1905-1995
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Name: Robert Lee Cordray
Birth Date: 16 Dec 1929
Gender: Male
Mother’s Maiden Name: Tallant
Birth County: Orange

Name: Robert L Cordray
Gender: Male
Residence Year: 1966
Residence Place: San Diego, San Diego, California, USA
Spouse: Barbara J Cordray
Publication Title: San Diego, California, City Directory, 1966
Actual address;
3041 Forrester Ct
San Diego, CA 92123, USA

Name: Robert L Cordray
Birth Date: 16 Dec 1929
Address: 2860 Sunset Hls, Escondido, CA, 92025-7853
[109 E 9th Ave, Escondido, CA, 92025-5166 (1977)]
[13764 Kitty Hawk Ln, Redding, CA, 96003-7018 (1986)]

Robert L Cordray in the California, Marriage Index, 1960-1985

Name: Robert L Cordray
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1930
Age: 30
Marriage Date: 25 Aug 1960
Marriage Place: Imperial, California, USA
Spouse Name: Barbara J Harlow
Spouse Age: 26

Robert Cordray in the 1930 United States Federal Census
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Name: Robert Cordray
Birth Year: abt 1930
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birthplace: California
Marital Status: Single
Relation to Head of House: Son (Child)
Home in 1930: Santa Ana, Orange, California
Map of Home: View Map
Street address: West 17th St
Ward of City: 5 pt of
House Number in Cities or Towns: 1844
Dwelling Number: 299
Family Number: 299
Attended School: No
Able to Read and Write: No
Father’s Birthplace: Ohio
Mother’s Birthplace: California
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Lee R Cordray 39
Alice Cordray 28
Richard Cordray 3
[3 9/12]
Elaine Cordray 1
[1 6/12]
Robert Cordray 0

OBS… I am NOT saying that Bob Cordray is the Zodiac, I just think it is important to research him due to that the Zodiac apparently choose to use part of his strip in one of his possible communications.

Here are a couple of Bob Cordray handwriting samples, and they are from 1970 and 1971.
They were both addressed to a Joe Sullivan, can’t remember if any of the Ross Sullivan brothers/relatives was a "Joe", anyone knows? :

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/artwork.htm

SMIDGENS by Bob Cordray. personalized and autographed by him in the bottom border. Dated 3/6/70. ©National News Syndicate. cute strip talking about Senator giving Science Fiction speech – he has his fiction down to a science! Approx. 21" by 7". Overall in excellent condition. This is a piece of ORIGINAL artwork, used to print the Newspaper daily comic strip. This is NOT a Xerox or a copy, but the ACTUAL art, hand drawn and signed by the artist. Black ink and pencil on white art board. 35.00

SMIDGENS by Bob Cordray. personalized and autographed by him in the bottom border. Dated 8/20/71. ©National News Syndicate. she wants to know how he can get so excited over a stupid game of baseball. He says: look, we have a man on every base! She says: Big Deal! SO has the other team! Approx. 21" by 7". Overall in excellent condition. This is a piece of ORIGINAL artwork, used to print the Newspaper daily comic strip. This is NOT a Xerox or a copy, but the ACTUAL art, hand drawn and signed by the artist. Black ink and pencil on white art board. 45.00

Traveller1st would you please take a look at the handwriting ?