I was just pondering and I recalled that in fairness much of the skepticism over the victim count is also to do with the lack of letters claiming other victims. Aside from the count going up, the Zodiac doesn’t directly claim any other victims. I suppose some find it hard to believe he could go from being such a media whore to a quiet killer. Still I stand by what I’ve said.

I remember Tom V saying something to the effect of the increasing victim counts could have been in reference to earlier crimes, as far as speculation goes, I find that quite a grounded notion.

The William Thoreson link in the Percy case is interesting. He might be a great Zodiac candidate except for one thing: He was dead when the Pleasanton letter and later letters came. Death is an absolute defense. There are a few other things that don’t seem to fit.

Just to move along Bell-Howell thought.

This is the obituary for Senator Charles Percy, Valerie Percy’s father, and previously the CEO of Bell and Howell.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/us/p … .html?_r=0

When war came later that year, he set up schools to teach military personnel how to use Bell & Howell movie cameras. He joined the Navy in 1943, training aviation personnel.

and

But the company, based near Chicago in Skokie, Ill., prospered under him as it extended its reach in the consumer electronics market and went beyond making home-movie cameras, producing components for space photography as well.

So this is speculative, but intriguing. It could answer, potentially, why Bell & Howell and TRW CEOs knew each other.

I should add, since I’ve been reading about it today ….. the cops do have good non-Bell and Howell leads in this case. For one thing, cops think Valerie Percy’s death had to do with a nearby burglary in the days before her death.

Taylor Teaford had a limp my favourite suspect for Stuart Maher/Paul stine/Joyce Walker! Just sayin

I’ve been surprised by how many criminals you come across with a limp. I don’t think it’s as useful as people think in determining identity.

This topic thread was posted originally in Zodiac Case General Discussion. I moved this topic thread here, to a more specifically relevant section, Possible Zodiac Victims, where I think it will get more views and interested members who can contribute to the discussion. Please make all future discussion and presentation of evidence there. The discussion of this very interesting topic and newly discovered links and patterns is very much worth viewing.

Very interesting work here by replaceablehead, Nick, no Nora and others. Yes I think the Midwest Murders, especially the Robison murders with a letter to the newspapers with inside knowledge of the crime by Zodius, have very compelling links to the Zodiac case. I was surprised, and disappointed, that the majority of the ZKS community, for the most part, showed little interest.

Even with the Zodius/Zodiac word link and both writing to newspapers with inside knowledge of the crime,, the police matching the ballistics of Michigan Zodius 6/25/68 and California Zodiac 12/20/68,and the (suburban Cincinnati) Hamilton County Major Crimes Squad issuing a press release that the Zodiac Killer was now officially a suspect in the Bricca murders. This was one of the reasons I decided message boards were, with some notable exceptions, often of little real value, and for the past few years, what time I have for the Z case I try to spend more on research and contacting authorities then I do posting.

When I gave the Bricca detectives evidence on the possible links to the other Midwest murders and the Zodiac Killer, they were very interested. Former FBI agent and serial killer profiler John Douglas noted that posing bodies in any way occurs only in about 1% of homicides. The detectives were very interested when I told them that in the possible Zodiac crimes of the murders of Domingos and Edwards, the victims were bound and the female placed atop the male.

They said this matched what happened in the Bricca case and included this rare MO match in their press release announcing that the Zodiac Killer was now a suspect in the Bricca case. (As far as placement of the female atop the male, it also matches what happened in another Midwest Murders case, the Robison case).The (suburban Cincinnati) Hamilton County Sheriff Major Crimes Squad said they would try to match any evidence from the Bricca case with any available in the Zodiac case, including DNA. Of course it is still not known if any reliable DNA evidence was or has been developed in the Zodiac case. This video is no longer active, but you can still read the headline of the Bricca case detectives press release stating the Zodiac Killer is now a suspect in the Bricca case.

From Nick, no Nora:

OK, I found a possible link between the people in the Midwest crimes and the SoCal crimes that we study. It’s a weak link at the moment, only a six-degrees-of-separation sort of thing. I’m taking the names of the people out for right now, so a Zodiac site doesn’t pop up when a great-grandson is looking online for an obituary. This is an NYT article from 1985. I’ll leave it to you all to consider how serious to take this chain of people.

https://www.nytimes.com/1985/07/15/busi … group.html

… has announced the formation of a new joint venture to pursue venture capital opportunities in high technology, and has named [name redacted #1], a co-founder of TRW Inc., its chairman.

[Name Redacted #1] is not the only familiar name involved in the new operation ……. Indeed, the group was formed as a result of wide-ranging contacts in government and business made by [name redacted #2], a Commerce Secretary under President Nixon who also has been chief executive of Bell & Howell and chairman of Lehman Brothers.

”I have known [name redacted #2] for some years, starting with when he was at Bell & Howell,” [name redacted #1], who is 72, said …..’

To be very clear here: Name Redacted #1 is too old to be Zodiac. And I’m not saying anyone mentioned in the article is Zodiac.
I’m also not saying Z worked specifically for one of these companies. He could have worked for a third company involved in this line of business. Or McDonald’s.

But I am intrigued the companies possibly worked together in some way. At this point, however, it might be only that the CEOs played golf together.

Here’s how you get from A to B (or A to F):

1) Valerie Percy was one victim in the 1966 Midwest murder cases we’re discussing (that have not been definitively linked, but have some commonalities that AK Wilks has documented). Percy’s father was the previous CEO of Bell and Howell, and appears to have been the predecessor of Redacted Name #2. The company made photographic lenses, camera stuff, and business machines.

2) Name Redacted #1 founded the defense contracting company that Joyce Walker worked for- Space Technology Laboratories. STL worked in satellites and missiles (and maybe computers). Here’s a 2007 LA Times article looking back at STL, with NR1 reminiscing.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm … story.html

3) Some background on the TRW company mentioned in the article: TRW, headquartered in Cleveland, was formed in a 1958 merger between Cleveland-based Thompson Products and California-based STL. STL continued its work in SoCal as a subsidiary corporation.

4) Vandenburg AFB, near Lompoc, was where they launched satellites. SLT might have had a field office there at some point, if the company history linked below is accurate.

Here’s an online TRW/STL company history of unknown origin:

https://tra-spacepark.org/wordpress/wp- … story2.pdf

Encyclopedia Britannica article on TRW:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/TRW-Inc

5) I want to mention that reading around, the navy did weapons testing at the base where Joseph Bates worked in Corona. Obviously that brings up possibilities, none clearly established at this time, at least by us.

To expand ….

Walker worked as a secretary at Space Technologies Laboratories in El Segundo CA, near LAX, in a cluster of aerospace companies. It is a federally-funded consultancy involved in satellites. They work/ed with the National Reconnaissance Organization, with an office in El Segundo. The NRO ran/runs the US spy satellite program.

This 1987 LA Times article details the West Coast military intelligence system. It describes the NRO office. It describes Skaggs Island, near Vallejo, run by the NSA and the Navy, where a unit of code experts tracked Russian subs, used radians, and worked with teletype machines. It also says they launched the satellites at Vandenburg AFB, near Lompoc. There are a number of intelligence installations close or fairly close to Zodiac activity.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm … story.html

So with these details in mind …

Do I think Walker was killed by someone she knew?
Was that a person a co-worker/work associate?
Was that person involved in the West Coast intelligence network?
Was that person connected to Skaggs Island?

It’s speculation for now. But it would make a lot of sense.

Seagull’s posted upthread about Walker being found covered in a blanket and that often happens when the killer knows the victim. Also, she was chatting with the man at the scene of the car wreck.

AK Wilks: In the possible Zodiac murders of Domingos and Edwards, Santa Barbara, the victims were also covered with a blanket, which also happened in some of the Midwest Murders, like the Robison family murder.. Of course the use of a disabled car in the Walker case reminds one of the use of disabled cars in the possible Zodiac crimes Bates and Johns.

The suspect in the Joyce Walker murder was seen walking with a limp. At least two people described Zodiac having an unusual walk, possibly a slight to moderate limp of some kind. Officer Fouke said the man he saw at the Stine crime scene walked with a "shuffling lope", but further described it as a "lumbering gait…a semi-limp". A girl at Lake Berryessa said that a man watching her and her friends, who may have been the Zodiac, did not exactly have a "limp", but then described something very much like a limp, saying she observed he "favored one leg over the other".

Good work by replaceablehead and Nick, no Nora. It is very interesting that Joyce Walker worked for Space Technologies Laboratory, and that company was involved in spy satellites. Nick, no Nora explores these facts in that they might pertain to a possible POI being found who worked for one of these companies or in this field of high tech, weapons and satellites. For me it is most interesting when you look at a pattern of possible Zodiac Killer and Midwest Murders cases involving victims whose fathers worked for companies involved in high tech, computers, weapons and aircraft / satellite surveillance.

Cheri Bates father worked at a facility for testing naval weapons, that included missiles. Mr Robison had announced a plan to remove forestry near airports and build computerized warehouses for the airplane cargo industry. Nr Bricca worked as a chemical engineer at Monsanto.

Charles Percy, the father of murder victim in suburban Chicago on 9/18/66, Valerie Percy, was the CEO of Bell & Howell. They made business machines, the forerunners of computers. They also made cameras, including most of the cameras that were attached to US military aircraft.

Joyce Walker was killed on Thanksgiving in 1964, which was on 11/26/64.There were other Zodiac, Midwest Murders and College Girl Murders that happened around Thanksgiving. Of course Cheri Bates was killed the day before another Fall holiday, Halloween. The man who killed Cheri Bates outside the college library likely mailed the confession letter on 11/28/66. Betsy Aardsma was killed on 11/28/69 at the Penn State college library, with a witness picking from a photo lineup a picture of a Zodiac Killer and Midwest Murders suspect. And 12 years later, Joan Webster, Harvard student, went missing on 11/28/81, last seen in the company of an unknown bearded man, and was later found murdered.

Joan Webster’s father used to work for the CIA, and in 1981 was a Vice President at IT&T, of the military technology and weapons division. IT&T also did a lot of work for the CIA, and was exposed in late 1970’s Congressional hearings as having in the early and mid 1970’s helped the CIA overthrow Allende in Chile. IT&T having set up the communication networks in Chile, a clear asset to the CIA for spying.

We must consider Joyce Walker working at Space Technology Laboratories, a company involved in the space program and spy satellites, and the other victims or victims fathers links to high tech, computers, weapons and satellites that Nick, no Nora and I show. It is all particularly relevant to a Zodiac and Midwest Murders suspect who FBI files said had a noticeable limp, as did the killer of Joyce Walker. And this suspect hated technology and computers, had a legitimate reason to have a grudge against the CIA and had a particular paranoia about, obsession with and hatred for airplanes and for aircraft and satellites he felt the government used to spy on citizens.

You can get more info on these high tech links and this POI at viewtopic.php?f=102&p=84652#p84652.

Anyone want to help read a 320-page document about the history of NORCO, including their missile testing facilities? The document below is a detailed government report made to analyze whether or not the site could receive historical designation status.

It’s packed with intriguing details about missile testing. But the surprising thing that I haven’t seen elsewhere are the details about their computer network. The lab at NORCO had the largest analog computer in the western United States. And they loaned out its services to other branches of the military.

http://www.norco.ca.us/civicax/filebank … obID=23474

Here are a couple of quotes:

An extensive Technical Library housed technical documents that were available to all of Detachment Corona’s working groups and all other branches of the military. Within the library, a Technical Information Division provided services for document editing, photography, copying, and Illustration. A Fabrication Services division also served the needs of all of Detachment Corona’s working groups. It was staffed by skilled craftsmen, who created components, parts, and assemblies.
All working groups also had access to Detachment Corona’s highly sophisticated computers. Computer services were also offered to military branches outside of Detachment Corona.

And ….

Finally, the Dynamics Division was in charge of determining guided missile system design parameters, including airframe, propulsion, trajectory, and flight control system requirements. This division operated the Simulator and Hybrid Computer Facility, which included one of the largest Government-owned analog computers in the Western United States.

– The computers were used to analyze missile/warhead and weapons performance. They also had a database on the performance of each the performance of each defense contractor’s parts. The latter was one thing offered to other branches – giving the military performance data for each defense contractor.

– Some of the computers on the base were IBM computers. Looking at the context, I’m not sure if that is all of the computers or even the computers involved in missile testing. It seems like they are for a side task. But it’s something to keep in mind.

– It also mentions basically an IT staff onsite. As you would expect.

– One of the groups was involved in "fuze" work. What is that? They make sure the warhead explodes at the right time when it reaches a target and not when you drop it in the warehouse. When you think about the bus bomb, that’s a primitive fuze system, I would say.

I know computers are a significant link in the Midwest murders. So I thought that part was clearly relevant to this thread. There are a lot of other computing details in there.

There supposedly was a phone call overheard on a party line in the Sims case. A woman said she heard a man say something like "Mother, I did something bad. I killed three people." They traced the phone call to Brevard County. Which is the home of Cape Canaveral.

Don’t know what know to think about that story.

I want to correct something that I had said in the thread on a previous occasion. I was mixed up thinking Space Technology Laboratories and the Aerospace Corp. were the same organizations. They are actually different.

My current understanding is as follows, based on recent Internet reading:

The Aerospace Corporation was a non-profit that served as the technical adviser to the National Reconnaissance Organization about the satellite espionage program.

STL was a private company and later a division of TRW, Inc. STL/TRW did work on satellites and especially on the missiles sending them into space. Its specialty was design engineering. They also had a computer wing that spun off into another division or corporation in about 1964 or thereabouts.

To make it a little more confusing … from what I’ve read, when the Aerospace Corp. came into being ca. 1960, about half of the staff of STL (or TRW) went to work there.

It gets very Pynchonesque in there very quickly.

I’ve always thought it credible that Zodiac could have killed at least 37 victims as he claimed. The body counts serial killers could rack up in the days before DNA and other technology is staggering. Good examples are Ted Bundy, Rodney Alcala and Samuel Little. Also, Zodiac was seemingly not a sexually motivated killer, so the dispensing of sexual assault adds an element of efficiency to the act of murder, so to speak. The Santa Rosa cases might be an outlier but it’s not clear if Zodiac was involved in them, and even in those cases there is a variance in MO.

It’s entirely possible. But, unless he is constantly changing his MO, I would think law enforcement would notice 29 new murders between 1969 and 1974 and tie some of them to Zodiac. Ridgeway claimed 71 victims over a 20-year period. 37 victims in the span of 4 1/2 years would be quite a high murder rate. Ridgeway said that he killed a girl every other week at the high point of his activity. Then, he got married and took a long hiatus. For Zodiac to hit 37 victims, he would have to pull off 29 murders in approximately 51 months (Oct. 69 to Jan. 74). That’s almost 2 victims per month. Unlike other killers, Zodiac didn’t dispose of bodies (that we know of), so maybe it’s easier for him to kill at a high rate. But that would involve alot of stalking locations for potential victims.