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DMV Letter

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Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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Rumors of this possibly confirmed Zodiac letter to the head of the California DMV in Sacramento have existed for over a decade. I don’t expect an update any time soon.

I do have a question for those who might know (Tom V., Morf, Tahoe, seagull):

Who currently has custody of the letter? The FBI? The California DOJ? Sacramento County SO?

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 26, 2019 4:32 am
 Soze
(@soze)
Posts: 810
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I’d like to know who the head of the DMV was at the time of the letter as well.

Soze

 
Posted : October 26, 2019 4:57 am
Chaucer
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From 1966 to 1969 it was a man name Verne Orr. Orr was succeeded by a man named Robert C. Cozens from Del Mar, CA. Cozens served as Director of the California DMV at least until 1976.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 26, 2019 5:08 am
 Soze
(@soze)
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Oh my goodness. Thank you so much.

Soze

 
Posted : October 26, 2019 5:33 am
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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Topic starter
 

Oh my goodness. Thank you so much.

Soze

My pleasure.

Now, if someone could tell us WHO is in possession of that letter…

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 26, 2019 7:53 am
jacob
(@jacob)
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From 1966 to 1969 it was a man name Verne Orr. Orr was succeeded by a man named Robert C. Cozens from Del Mar, CA. Cozens served as Director of the California DMV at least until 1976.

Did anyone ever ask either of them to verify Zodiac sending a letter to the DMV?

 
Posted : October 27, 2019 6:11 am
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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Topic starter
 

From 1966 to 1969 it was a man name Verne Orr. Orr was succeeded by a man named Robert C. Cozens from Del Mar, CA. Cozens served as Director of the California DMV at least until 1976.

Did anyone ever ask either of them to verify Zodiac sending a letter to the DMV?

Orr died in 2008 and Cozens died in 2012. There is no indication of this letter in any publically released police or FBI reports. That leads me to believe that it is possessed by the California State Police (which is responsible for protecting state agencies and state government buildings).

That’s why a FOIA request is difficult. We don’t know who to ask or even what exactly to ask for…

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 28, 2019 6:04 pm
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
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Sorry to post back to back, but…

Is there any reference to the DMV letter in any of the FBI files? I know there are none in the publicly available police reports.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 31, 2019 1:43 am
 Soze
(@soze)
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I went back over the 10 page thread at zk concerning the DMV. I read from Tom V, in short:

1. Contact at California agency
2. Contact at Department of Justice – Division of Law enforcement
3. Contact gave info on Sam and DMV
4. Contact caught in drunken racist rant (sfgate article possibly dated around August 17, 2011 as per post)

Further clarification: Tom V didn’t say drunken racist rant. He just provided a link to the sfgate article. Another poster mentioned drunken racist rant. The article doesn’t seem to exist anymore.

How is it that none of those items help? It would seem, without knowing how true the DMV letter is, that the letter may be in the hands of the California Department of Justice. Have you tried backtracking the article for a name?

Looked into division of law enforcement and there is presently 4 to 5 areas in that division. Current Bureau of Forensic Services looks pretty interesting to me.

Soze

 
Posted : October 31, 2019 2:49 am
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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Topic starter
 

I went back over the 10 page thread at zk concerning the DMV. I read from Tom V, in short:

1. Contact at California agency
2. Contact at Department of Justice – Division of Law enforcement
3. Contact gave info on Sam and DMV
4. Contact caught in drunken racist rant (sfgate article possibly dated around August 17, 2011 as per post)

Further clarification: Tom V didn’t say drunken racist rant. He just provided a link to the sfgate article. Another poster mentioned drunken racist rant. The article doesn’t seem to exist anymore.

How is it that none of those items help? It would seem, without knowing how true the DMV letter is, that the letter may be in the hands of the California Department of Justice. Have you tried backtracking the article for a name?

Looked into division of law enforcement and there is presently 4 to 5 areas in that division. Current Bureau of Forensic Services looks pretty interesting to me.

Soze

Yes, I reviewed that thread as well.

As you stated, the link to the article does not work and despite my best efforts I have not been able to find the original article or articles about this from other sources.

I have also reviewed a since deleted reddit post from Tom from 8 months ago in which he states that the letter is currently in the poessession of "the state crime lab". However, there are several crime labs – even if you only use the ones associated with the California DOJ.

I have also tried to reach out to Tom directly for some direction and clarification, but have not received a response.

I have PRA requests with other agencies, and I am awaiting to hear back.

It’s also important to remember that this thread was begun nearly a decade ago, and the source for this information apparently is no longer involved. So, why the cloak and dagger stuff from those who DO know? If Tom (or anyone else) has information on this, why not share it with those of us who have the time and energy to follow up? Doesn’t seem to make sense for us to go back through a 10 year old, 10 page thread to get answers, when there are apparently several people who know and won’t share.

Sorry for the testiness. Been a long day.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : October 31, 2019 4:07 am
 Soze
(@soze)
Posts: 810
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The DMV letter, should it exist (and I have no reason to doubt it’s existence at this point), should never have been spoken of until proof was in hand. He has to know that now. Continuously beating it or blaming serves no purpose. So many people do the same exact thing, say they have something and then, either don’t provide it or provide reasons far less than what he has provided. At least his answer is buyable- the info came from law enforcement. Would you repeat info they gave you in confidence? It’s done. All you can do is move forward. If you have done all you claim to have done then you have given it your best shot. All you can do is wait.

Soze

 
Posted : October 31, 2019 6:40 am
doranchak
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As you stated, the link to the article does not work and despite my best efforts I have not been able to find the original article or articles about this from other sources.

Here’s a copy: https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/17/BAJ71KOL8F.DTL&tsp= 1″> https://web.archive.org/web/20110818023 … .DTL&tsp=1

Police chief at center of racial-slur probe quits
Henry K. Lee, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 17, 2011

(08-17) 19:09 PDT OAKLAND — The Oakland school district’s police chief, accused of aiming racist remarks at an African American sergeant during a drunken outburst after a charity golf tournament, resigned from the department Wednesday.

The departure of Pete Sarna, 41, from the force he led for two years also means the end of an investigation that the Oakland Unified School District began earlier this month into his alleged comments, said district spokesman Troy Flint.

Sarna is also retiring from law enforcement after serving previous stints with the Oakland Police Department and the state Department of Justice, and has entered an alcohol rehabilitation program, said his attorney, Alison Berry Wilkinson.

"I am deeply sorry for the pain my actions have caused," Sarna wrote in a letter Wednesday to Oakland school board President Gary Yee. "My words hurt not only those who heard them, but also the entire community I have tried to serve as police chief of the Oakland Unified School District."

Sarna said his focus would be on "repairing the pain I have caused to my family and on my recovery and sobriety. I make no excuses for my behavior and offer no explanations. There simply is no excuse for the hurtful words I used and no explanation for behavior so at odds with whom I believe myself to be."

Drank ‘to excess’
Sarna was cited in 2007 for drunken driving, and Wilkinson confirmed that the former chief drank "to excess" at the July 18 charity golf tournament at the Sequoyah Country Club in Oakland.

Wilkinson said she didn’t know how much alcohol Sarna had consumed, but "it was definitely more than he should have."

Sarna oversaw a dozen officers as head of the school district’s police force, which patrols 100 campuses.

The district had placed Sarna on administrative leave as it investigated allegations that he had let loose with a half-hour tirade loaded with racist epithets while being driven home from the golf tournament.

Sarna, who is white, allegedly made the comments in the presence of the African American sergeant, a second sergeant and a police driver who was apparently called to the golf course so no one would be driving drunk, sources said.

Racist outburst
As the group was headed home through the Caldecott Tunnel, Sarna allegedly told the African American sergeant, who lives in Orinda, that "the only good n- is a dead n- and they should hang you in the town square to prevent any other n- from coming in the area."

The outbursts continued when they reached the home of another sergeant, Jonathan Bellusa, where Sarna directed insults at his colleague’s children, said Bellusa’s attorney, Joe O’Sullivan.

Sarna directed more slurs at an Asian American officer as he was being driven to his home, O’Sullivan said.

Bellusa, who is white, filed a complaint against Sarna with the district.

O’Sullivan said it would have been "untenable" for Sarna to remain as the district’s police chief. "It was virulent, and it was violent. It was incendiary," O’Sullivan said of Sarna’s comments.

"There had been no colloquy that preceded it – it shows instability on his part," O’Sullivan said. "The alcohol was the vehicle for it to come out. You can’t use that type of explosive and divisive language and survive."

2007 incident
It is not the first controversy involving Sarna, who left the Oakland Police Department after being hired in January 2007 by then-Attorney General Jerry Brown as deputy director of the Justice Department’s Division of Law Enforcement, overseeing numerous investigators and criminalists.

Sarna resigned just seven months later after crashing his state-owned Chevrolet Tahoe into a tow truck on Highway 24 and was cited for misdemeanor drunken driving.

He was named police chief of the Oakland schools in June 2009.

O’Sullivan said the cash-strapped district had given Sarna and the two sergeants a full day’s pay to play in the charity golf tournament, in what Sarna looked upon as a "bonding thing." "It was a work day," O’Sullivan said.

Flint, the district spokesman, said it was not clear whether the district had paid for the officers’ $150-a-head entrance fees, as Sarna managed his own budget.

"We have people pulling time sheets" to determine if the officers listed the day as work, vacation or a personal day, Flint said.

The school police force will be led on an interim basis by Sgt. Barhin Bhatt, who shot and killed a man outside a school dance in January after the suspect stabbed another sergeant – Bellusa – with a screwdriver.

E-mail Henry K. Lee at hlee@sfchronicle.com.

http://zodiackillerciphers.com

 
Posted : November 1, 2019 6:33 pm
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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This is great stuff, Dave. I really appreciate it.

Opens up new lines of inquiry.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : November 1, 2019 8:17 pm
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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Topic starter
 

Just an update:

I put in for a public records request with the California DOJ regarding the DMV letter. I received word back today:

"The records that you seek are confidential records of the Attorney General. If any records exist, Section 6254, subdivision (f) expressly exempts investigatory and security files of the Attorney General…"

So, they say the records are those of the AG which I found odd, but I am not a legal expert. Second, they seem to indicate that they have the records and the next sentence say "If any records exist".

A bit cagey if you ask me.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : December 18, 2019 8:44 pm
(@sillybilly)
Posts: 93
Estimable Member
 

I recently red about this supposed DMV letter, and an interesting possibility came to my mind, and I would like to ask: is there any Zodiac suspect that is known to have hold a job in California´s DMV?

 
Posted : November 10, 2020 1:50 am
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