So what’s the theory here? That Paul lived nearby?

So what’s the theory here? That Paul lived nearby?

At least that a Paul Ferrin had a post box in the area that letter was sent/addressed to. Not a theory but an interesting detail. But I could be wrong, didn’t follow that (pay) link.

QT

Near Monticello, shought victims 21, in the woods dies April.

I’ve said this before but, the zodiac, would not give one number alluding to multiple victims. Secondly, this card is not about victims per say but about John Muir. His birthday is April 21st and the national monument for him is in Mill valley. It’s a 27 minute drive from Monticello road in San Raphael – a mailing location for another zodiac communication. It’s a lot closer to Monticello than the lake berryessa Monticello which happens to be a 1 hour 20 minute drive. John Muir would make sense in relation to the pines card as he is the father of the Sierra Club.

Soze

Let me get this straight, the Zodiac, a criminal known for his misspellings, wrote "victims 21" and the best explanation is that it’s a reference to John Muir? I suppose I could be generous and say that the apparent misspelling could hide a double meaning, but isn’t John Muir a little oblique? I’m starting to like the sound of the hoaxer theory better.

Anyway, we should stay on topic, as for Paul’s PO box, I don’t know, are we thinking that because he had a PO box in the area that it increases the chances of him knowing Salmina? It seems to me that aside from being Darlene’s brother in-law, the only other things Paul had in common with the Zodiac are the same as anyone else living in San Francisco. I forgot about the tape tin, but really it’s not much, the man had to have a PO box somewhere in the San Fran area. If it was in Vallejo we’d all be saying "ooo, look Paul F had a PO box in Vallejo", or "ooo look, Paul F had a PO box 7.8 miles from where Paul Stine was picked up". Geography is only useful if we already have good reason for suspicion and then it’s just a matter of placing the suspect in the right locations. QT, have you actually found anything on Paul beyond his relationship to one of the victims?

You are right with the geographic stuff. However, let’s have a closer look at it: Certainly, there is a connection between Paul F. and Darlene. Also, we have to deal with the same street (Frank’s coffee shop and Stine’s pick up location). We also can be certain about the same person having killed Stine and Darlene. We do know this from Z’s own letters: On the one hand, Z had proven his actions in Vallejo by mentioning details only the killer could have known [e.g. super x ammo]. On the other hand, he sent bloody parts of Stine’s shirt, therefore confessing to the Stine murder.

Same killer, same street. My first thought was: What if Stine had not picked up Z at Mason/Geary but three blocks ‘earlier’? How long does it take to drive those three blocks in a cab? What if Z had walked three blocks from Franks Coffee Shop before entering Stine’s cab? Why else would Darlene’s killer have been at Geary, if not for her uncles’ coffee shop? Had he been at Franks Coffee Shop even the night when he killed Paul Stine? All of this is speculative but still: It is the same street. What are the odds for this to happen? How many streets in San Francisco – or the whole bay area – exist? Odds 1:1,000? 1:100,000? This one is more than just accidential, imo.

There even is a joke about such eventualities:
A guy takes a hitchhiker with him in his car. After driving a while and some uncomfortable ‘silence’, the hitchhiker asks him if he didn’t worry as he could have picked up a serial killer which would be very dangerous for him. The driver, very calmly, responds: ‘No, absolutely not’. The hitchhiker is confused about the distinctive answer. After another moment of uncomfortable silence, he asks the driver again: ‘But why not? A serial killer in your car, wouldn’t that be horrible?’. The driver then turns around, looks at him and responds: ‘Well, you know, you are right about that ‘horrible’ part. But chances simply are extremely low that two serial killers would actually meet in the same car".

Same with Geary Street: People tend to believe in the accidentiality of events (because it is part of our daily life to evaluate such odds). But as soon as you have an exorbitant amount of real, existing ‘alternatives’ – such as streets where the coffee shop could have been / Stine could have been picking up his passenger – put away the superstition! It is the same street out of thousands, if not ten thousands. Geary might be more frequented than others but still: Same killer, same street.

According to this, the odds that Z had known Darlene are rising. He had killed in Vallejo (Faraday/Jensen). He killed another Vallejo girl (Ferrin). And he killed Paul Stine. Latter he picked up at the same street. 30 miles distance to Vallejo; how many streets he could have taken elsewhere: Stockton, Sacramento, Walnut Creek etc. all of this would have been possible. But instead, both crime-related locations were at the same street, Geary.

QT

The problem with your reasoning is that all of these people lived in the San Francisco area, that means that there are tens thousands of opportunities for them to cross paths, you’ve found one.

The problem with your reasoning is that all of these people lived in the San Francisco area, that means that there are tens thousands of opportunities for them to cross paths, you’ve found one.

Well, in fact Darlene did not live in San Francisco that time, did she?

That’s exactly why I am interested in those ‘tens of thousands of opportunities‘: Darlene did meet Z at BRS – but she was not killed at Geary Blvd. Why else should there be such an additional ‘cross path’, after all? How often does a murder victim walks by a spot where the killer had been picked up a completely different victim? I admit, many people go to that area, but there it is: Z picking up Stine at Geary and Darlene having her coffee at Geary, too. Both just three blocks away.

Z could have picked up his guest in Sacramento. Or in San Jose. Or at Telegraph Avenue in Oakland. Or or or…why should there be such second (!) ‘cross path’ between a killer and his victim, if they had not been known to each other?

I fully agree to your thoughts but it appears still strange to me that both of this had happened even in the same street. If one does not believe in such eventualities, the reason would be only one: That Z and Darlene had visited similar locations in the area, e.g. the Frank’s Coffee Shop itself. But true, we don’t know for sure.

Frank Kozusko / Frank’s Coffee Shop
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-ne … n-new-york
http://mk-zodiac.com/ZodiacGearyStreet.html

QT

I’ll grant you that your case is somewhat bolstered by Darlene admittedly not living in beating heart of downtown San Francisco. My point is that all of the Zodiacs victims and likely the Zodiac himself, lived in a relatively small geographical area.

I’ve never been to San Francisco, but I’m surprised that it has such a small metropolitan area for a city with a population that size. It goes to show how different the layout and density of cities can be. But, I would surmise and as I say I’ve never been there, but I would surmise that downtown San Francisco would have been a popular destination for youths living in the surrounding towns. I don’t know the culture, but young people tend to venture into the city and I can’t imagine it would have been any different in the 60’s.

So the point I’m making, is that it’s a bit like the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon. You may intuitively feel that you are far removed from Kevin Bacon, but your intuition may be leading you astray.

I’m not saying you haven’t got anything and I agree that circumstantial evidence can add up. I’m just not sure that the probability is anywhere near as low as you seem to think it is. The Zodiac had what, 7 confirmed victims? Now think about how many geographic locations are connected to Zodiac, LB, LHR, all of the phone booths he used, Washington and Maple, all of those locations. Now what are the odds of connecting one of the 7 victims with any one of the many Zodiac related locations? Now what about if you allow a 3 block margin of error? If you reason the way I do, all of a sudden the odds of making at least one connection seem quite high. That’s all you’ve really done here.

If the cafe was 6 blocks from Washington and Cherry you would find meaning there as well? Or 8 blocks, or 10 blocks, or in the same suburb. Look it’s a connection, but it’s not as strong as you think it is. If Stine had picked him up outside the front door of the Cafe after a phone call was placed from within the cafe to book the taxi, then you would have something. Three blocks might as well be a hundred.