Zodiac Discussion Forum

Clear all

ALA is a good suspect

45 Posts
16 Users
0 Reactions
Posts: 71
Trusted Member
Topic starter

Noob here but ALA looks like a really good suspect to me:

He was in the immediate area at the time.
Incriminating evidence was found in his home.
He owned a zodiac watch.(this "coincidence" alone!)
He basically confessed to two people who confirm.
Bloody knife in car after LB incident.
He was former military.
He had a (bad)fascination with children-same as Z.
He came up as a suspect/POI twice independently by police (this is a bigee for me).
Surviving victim IDed him.(another bigee)
He fits the profile of thrill killer/"lovers lane" SK to a T. Loser, loner, no relationships with women (see Son of Sam).
He fits witness descriptions. (to add-I don’t know what all this talk of he was bald-photos of him from the time frame show receding hair line with widows peak).

obviously theres more, but these are the main ones for me.

Regards to the exculpitary evidence:

The zodiac was a meticulous ADA type who created complicated codes, bomb systems and letters. He said he would cover his fingertips with glue. He was seen wiping down the cab. I think its fair to assess he could(and would) also then disguise his handwriting and leave no finger prints.

as far as DNA: Too early in the science and only partial DNA found anyway. He may have been wearing gloves and or used a sponge pad for envelopes/stamps as many people do anyway. The DNA could have been anyone who ever handled those items.
DNA evidence way to weak to rule anyone out based on it IMHO.

I’m not convinced he was the Z though, at about 80%.

just my 2 cents.

…a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

Posted : December 5, 2017 6:14 pm
Posts: 57
Trusted Member

I have moved on from ALA over the years. Bryan Hartnell stated that he didn’t believe ALA was Zodiac. a police officer on the scene of the Paul Stine murder said ALA was about 100 pounds bigger than the POI he saw that night. However, I still don’t rule ALA out completely. It wouldn’t surprise me if eventually he is proven to be the Zodiac, or a member of a Zodiac team.

Posted : December 5, 2017 6:38 pm
Posts: 475
Reputable Member

I actually think that Arthur Leigh Allen was a bad suspect for many reasons.

…but I suppose that getting to know the case and making your own judgements is the best way to go.

Posted : December 6, 2017 7:12 pm
Posts: 419
Reputable Member

Ala holds interest to this day even though its fairly certain he was not the z..he still holds my interest and should not be revoved from the tier 1 Z suspect list..ala was local and that alone is reason why he stays of interest to so many…some believe he was in riverside weekend of cjb homocide..but i dont know how solid that is…anyhow..yea he is still an interesting character and is the most heavily scrutinized poi of any of em

Posted : December 8, 2017 12:51 am
Posts: 53
Trusted Member

Not that it is evidence of anything but it was a bit creepy that one of the items listed in his will was a Karman Ghia.

Posted : December 17, 2017 7:26 am
Posts: 475
Reputable Member

Circumstantially, allen is a good candidate, and whether it is by bizarre coincidence or not allen actually did have traits which you would think your zodiac suspect would have, however, there are also some traits which really don’t fit, for example:

·Allen was a pedophile, and there is evidence suggesting that zodiac was attracted to age appropriate women.

·Allen was sadistic, he even admitted to using the sounds of children being beaten as a sexual aide. While zodiac did not appear sadistic at all, he did not do anything more than he had to to complete the murder, there was no torture, there was no mutilation of the bodies, there was nothing to indicate that zodiac enjoyed sadistic acts. In his letters zodiac would describe the victims being murdered in a manner which suggests that it may have been somewhat difficult for him, he mentions how his victims "squirmed" or how their "lip twitched" as they were being killed*, or says "some fought, it was horrible", zodiac also killed in a very quick manner, he would shoot and leave or bind, stab, and leave.

*if you listen to richard Hoffman in the "this is the zodiac speaking" documentary describing Darlene getting CPR in the ambulance, and watching her bra "flutter" as the paramedic blew air into her, it STRONGLY resembles how zodiac would describe killing some of the women in his letters.

·Allen only vaguely matches the physical description.

Allen probably was guilty of some pretty terrible things, and Allen did have some of the most convincing circumstantial evidence implicating him as zodiac, however, I still can’t accept that Allen was zodiac.

A friend of mine is convinced that zodiac was Arthur Leigh Allen working with Norman Boudreau. If you are an individual who believes zodiac was Allen, this might be a good route of investigation. Norman Boudreau fits the description of zodiac very well. Norman Boudreau is filmed defending allen in the "his name is Arthur Leigh allen" documentary, he even mentions how the bombs found in Allen’s home were left there "by a friend of Allen" and "that it was an important clue"

While I don’t feel zodiac was Allen, there is actually a good deal of circumstantial evidence implicating him. …though you could find equal evidence of equal value implicating Ross Sullivan or Lawrence Kane or richard Hoffman as zodiac.

Posted : December 19, 2017 6:25 pm
Posts: 93
Trusted Member

Awful guy, but the looks, dna, prints, etc aren’t right. I don’t see any possible way he was Zodiac. I do believe he did far worse things however. It takes a really twisted person to get off to children being abused. Scares me to even think of the things he might’ve done.

Posted : December 20, 2017 3:47 am
Posts: 475
Reputable Member

Awful guy, but the looks, dna, prints, etc aren’t right. I don’t see any possible way he was Zodiac. I do believe he did far worse things however. It takes a really twisted person to get off to children being abused. Scares me to even think of the things he might’ve done.

As far as the DNA, we know that Allen would have others lick his envelopes and stamps for him, claiming that the glue made him sick, so the DNA on the letters or stamps could have belonged to anybody who Allen asked to lick his envelopes and stamps for him, and should not necessarily discount allen as a suspect.

Don Cheney even claims that Allen would have others hold a piece of "silly-putty" then hand it back to him, obtaining their fingerprint impressions.

…though Don Cheney doesn’t sit very well with me. George bawart, who investigated allen, feels that cheney may have been "more involved" than he leads on, when he attempted to bring Cheney in for a polygraph Cheney had been drinking the night before and was unable to take the test…

A friend of mine thinks allen, Norman Boudreau and possibly cheney to some degree were all involved.

I don’t necessarily buy in here, but it’s an interesting thought.

Zodiac said in a letter "I shall no longer tell you what my disguise consists of" and at one point said "when I do my thing i look like the sketches, the rest of the time I look completely different" …so he could have been wearing a wig or some disguise…which means Allen does not necessarily have to look like the sketches…

So as far as DNA and the police sketches, I don’t feel that these were viable means for excluding allen as a suspect.

I actually think that the Kathleen Johns incident may have actually been Allen and not zodiac…

But as I keep saying in regards to this case, it doesn’t matter what you think, it doesn’t even matter what you know, all that matters is what you can prove.

Like I said, I am sure allen is guilty of some pretty terrible things, actually, I am willing to bet that allen is guilty of some terrible things, but I still can not fully accept that Allen was zodiac.

Posted : December 20, 2017 6:37 pm
Posts: 475
Reputable Member

A friend of mine is constantly pointing out things like in the example above. She thinks that the "zodiac symbol" followed by "Li" was a hint that zodiac was Leigh Allen.

I do not buy into it necessarily, but they are interesting thoughts. I have asked her to find more examples of Leigh hiding the name "Lee" anywhere in his ciphers.

If you are an individual who feels Arthur Leigh Allen was zodiac, then maybe such things could be seen as significant.

Though two of my biggest questions are:

Why Dali days on the 13 moon calender? (Zodiac only killed on Dali days)


In the first cipher the "zodiac symbol" represented the letter "d", why?

Posted : December 26, 2017 7:06 pm
Posts: 475
Reputable Member

A friend of mine feels that Don cheney was zodiac, and points to his engineering background in relation to the mount Diablo map, specifically the Magnetic North annotation, and the instructions regarding radians and inches, as well as the mount diablo location itself. She also cited the bomb instructions and the ciphers, and then points out that as an engineer Cheney would have had the blank paper, rulers, compasses, and other tools needed to create the ciphers and mount Diablo map, and could have been working on these things without raising much suspicion. She feels cheney was also trying to frame Allen.

Another friend thinks that Norman Boudreau, Don Cheney, and Leigh Allen we’re all involved.

…And yet another friend thinks that graysmith was zodiac or was involved with zodiac. She thinks zodiac committed the murders and graysmith wrote the letters, but also thinks it may have just been graysmith, she thinks that graysmith sends the letters to the newspaper he works at, watching them be opened and seeing the direct reactions to them, then graysmith was also present for discussions with the police and would have had inside information regarding the case. She also points out how graysmith was a cartoonist, then she cites the halloween card and other letters. Graysmith was also obsessed with the ciphers, and would even carry them around with him, and would be seen working on them…

…I don’t buy in here. I think that graysmith and zodiac must have had a ton in common, which is why graysmith was so attracted to the case…

(that would have been genius though, to commit the murders, then mail the letters to the news paper where you work, he then watches the direct reaction the letters caused and is present when the police arrive, listening in on their conversations and getting inside information regarding the investigation. He then also has a cover to be creating ciphers and to be seen working on or with zodic style ciphers, it also gave him a cover, making people think "I am only involved because these letters came to my work and now I want to solve the case" he eventually even became friends with the lead investigator of the case and was given direct access to police files…then, he goes on to profit from writing books about the case! It would have been genius! Even if someone else was doing all the actual murder and graysmith was just writing the letters and listening to the police, it still would have been very clever… again, I do not buy into any of this, but they are interesting thoughts)

(If you want to find out who committed a crime, it helps to ask "Cui bono?", "to whose bennefit", who ultimately gained the most from these crimes? Graysmith would be near the top of the list. All though that could have just been graysmith taking advantage of the situation. )

…Cui bono? Ultimatly the police, there was a fairly bad situation with the police departments in the bay area in the late 1960s, they were under funded, ill-equipped, they were under-payed, there were police and fire department strikes…

Even in the fincher film you can see when they are trying to correlate between departments, they don’t have fax machines, they are disorganized and have difficulty sharing information between departments… so, they invented a fake psychotic killer, even though the murder was real, there was no "zodiac", just Vallejo police officers, they then mailed letters to the newspaper(s) so EVERYBODY would know there was a "deranged psycho on the loose". They then have richard Hoffman commit the murder at blue rock springs, and have other officers committing the other murders, or it could have just been Hoffman as the designated vallejo police "executioner", they also throw in some other crimes they did not commit in the letters, and everybody gets good and scared, and as a result the police department gets better funding and equipment…

…zodiac got more help from the police than any other serial killer, I mean, the information in the BRS reports is garbage, and the other vallejo officers on duty at the the time of the murder were raiding a hells angels pad for like an ounce of cannabis rather than paying attention to the park. Then the only BRS witness (Mike) is scared to death and skips town, Mike also never puts effort into catching his killer, because he knows it was the police, and who can you call when the police want you dead? So he just skips town. Zodiac also gets called in as a black male while fleeing the Paul stine crime scene, and so on, and so on, time and time again zodiac got these lucky breaks when it came to the police…. could have just been dumb luck though.

Posted : December 28, 2017 9:09 pm
Posts: 475
Reputable Member

I forgot to add that the last section about the police was just pure speculation and imagination, which again, I do not really buy into, they are just interesting/fun to consider, and are fairly harmless so long as you keep them in perspective.

Posted : December 28, 2017 9:13 pm
Posts: 475
Reputable Member

Why Dali days on the 13 moon calender? (Zodiac only killed on Dali days)


In the first cipher the "zodiac symbol" represented the letter "d", why?


If Don cheney was born on a dali day it would make sense for both of my questions here…

Anyone know don’s birthday?

I checked, allen was born on a limi day.

I still think the 13 moon calender is a significant piece of the puzzle, so even if it is a waste of time I like to try to link poi’s to this calender in some way.

I always thought the "zodiac symbol" being represented by the letter "d" in the first ciphers was a reference to someone named richard, which can be shortened to "dick", for some reason I didn’t think if "d" for "Don", I mean, I am guessing that zodiac was fairly egotistical, so I am sure that he would want the zodiac symbol in the cipher he knew everyone would break to represent his name.

Ok, I am done speculating here.

Posted : December 29, 2017 1:32 am
Posts: 475
Reputable Member

I seriously think that Don Cheney was a great zodiac suspect…

Bawart thought so as well when he was investigating Leigh allen…

Another strange comment made by cheney or Norman in the "his name was Arthur Leigh allen" documentary was it was said that "Arthur was a very left handed person, and not just in the sense of writing with his left hand"

In Western esotericism the Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path are the dichotomy between two opposing approaches to magic. This terminology is used in various groups involved in the occult and ceremonial magic. In some definitions, the Left-Hand Path is equated with malicious black magic and the Right-Hand Path with benevolent white magic -Wikipedia

Its just strange that they would even make this type of reference, or even know about this terminology.

Don Cheney, Norman Boudreau, and officer richard Hoffman are three of the cases that I have been building, if anything it should at least rule out these suspects. Though Don Cheney and Richard Hoffman seem to be my best suspects so far.

One of my friends wants me to involved investigate Steve Mageau, Mike Mageau’s twin brother, and even though I think it is a waste of time I am going to look into it just to appease her.

…seriously though, Don Cheney and Richard Hoffman are my two most promise g suspects so far.

(I do not discount Sullivan or Kane or any of the other suspects which are currently being investigated, they are just not my investigations, which is why I only listed the suspects above which I am personally investigating and building cases for/against)

…As any good investigator I am always open to other suspects.

Posted : January 9, 2018 7:09 pm
Posts: 52
Trusted Member

Don Cheney "a" and "p" letters do not seem to match Z’s.

For your health: Take iodine and Vitamin D (which isn’t a vitamin) and cut out most simple and complex carbohydrate and move to a Keto diet. Do it over time. You’ll thank me later.

Posted : November 30, 2019 6:32 am
Posts: 6
Active Member

To me the strongest point against ALA being The Zodiac is that his voice was apparently not a match. This is very hard to get around.

Posted : December 21, 2019 4:37 am
Page 1 / 3