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The Costume

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Chaucer
(@chaucer)
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Clearly, one of the most striking details of the LB attack and in fact the case in general is the costume.

Hartnell described the symbol on the front of the tunic as a "perfect circle" and that it looked like it had been done "with some care" rather than hastily drawn on.

Does this mean it was stitched? How would someone in 1969 go about making a costume like this? Would a simple sewing machine and a fabric cross circle do the trick? Or was it painted on?

Any ideas on how Zodiac went about making his infamous "executioner’s hood" and iconic symbol?

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 4:02 am
CuriousCat
(@curiouscat)
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How would someone in 1969 go about making a costume like this?

The same way someone would today.

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 4:39 am
Chaucer
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How would someone in 1969 go about making a costume like this?

The same way someone would today.

Thanks. That’s very informative and helpful.

Could you elaborate, perhaps, and explain how that might be done? Sewing? Painting? Iron on? What skills and supplies would be needed to accomplish it?

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 4:44 am
CuriousCat
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Well, it all depends. All we have it Hartnell giving a general description, but he said the cross looked like it was stitched on and made with some degree of care and he also specifically said it wasn’t painted on. Based on that, it most likely required someone with a good amount of sewing skills. A simple needle and thread and a pair of scissors is all that would really be required, maybe a sewing machine but that isn’t necessary.

I’m pretty sure iron on patches were available then, so it’s possible he cut it out of a patch and ironed it on. That wouldn’t have taken a lot of sewing skills, but creating the hood would still require some degree of knowledge and experience. Kind of hard to say with just Hartnell’s general description available.

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 5:23 am
(@claypooles)
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Hartnell didn’t give much information about the hood. Its description really makes it look like a grocery brown paper bag painted in black, but such a thing would make noise when moving, plus it would be difficult to keep it on your head while stabbing people.

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 11:48 am
Chaucer
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he said the cross looked like it was stitched on and made with some degree of care and he also specifically said it wasn’t painted on.

This is interesting. I hadn’t heard that Hartnell specifically said that it had been ironed on. Do you have the source for that?

Also, I’d always assumed that the costume was simply a black pillowcase cut halfway up each side. However. I’ve read some descriptions where it is a hood with a tunic separate – basically two different articles.

Has there been any discussion of how accurate the popular visual depictions of the costume are?

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 4:22 pm
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
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Curious Cat never said it was ironed on, he just touted it as an idea.

Bryan Hartnell stated that the assailant wore a black hooded mask made of a cloth material, covering his entire head and shoulders, reaching down to the waist. On the front of the four cornered mask at the chest area was a white circle (3 x 3 inches in diameter) and a symmetrical cross. He would further elaborate on the design of the crosshairs, as well as later in the 2007 Zodiac documentary, stating "It looked like it was made with a machine or with some degree of care- it wasn’t just scrawled on with white paint. It was proportional."

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 4:34 pm
Chaucer
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Curious Cat never said it was ironed on, he just touted it as an idea.

Bryan Hartnell stated that the assailant wore a black hooded mask made of a cloth material, covering his entire head and shoulders, reaching down to the waist. On the front of the four cornered mask at the chest area was a white circle (3 x 3 inches in diameter) and a symmetrical cross. He would further elaborate on the design of the crosshairs, as well as later in the 2007 Zodiac documentary, stating "It looked like it was made with a machine or with some degree of care- it wasn’t just scrawled on with white paint. It was proportional."

That was my mistake. I meant "stitched on". I know that Hartnell said that the costume looked like it was made with a machine. I assume he meant a sewing machine?

Another interesting detail is that the circle was only 3 inches in diameter. Most people think of the symbol being emblazoned across the entire front of the costume, when it fact is was quite small.

Lastly, I don’t recall Hartnell saying that the costume reached down to the waist. Can you provide a source?

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 5:25 pm
Richard Grinell
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It’s often referred to as a waistline bib, but to be truly accurate, it was described as coming down to his stomach.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/HartnellInterview7.html

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 6:02 pm
Chaucer
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From Hartnell’s description it sounds like it was a three or four piece costume:

You have the bib or tunic, shoulder flaps, and the hood itself which had a square top which seemed to be deliberately made. So this isn’t just a burlap sack that someone cut holes in. This was carefully planned and creatively made. Designed, cut, stitched together, and then the symbol made and stitched on perfectly.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 7:14 pm
(@holmes201)
Posts: 553
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The biggest occupation for patients at California state institutions was tailoring. They had many shops with many sewing machines. They train these people to do something for when they left the hospital and had to earn a living. So it makes sense then that an insane person such as Zodiac would be quite adept at sewing and tailoring. He most likely learned about how to do it at the mental institution.

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 10:15 pm
Chaucer
(@chaucer)
Posts: 1210
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The biggest occupation for patients at California state institutions was tailoring. They had many shops with many sewing machines. They train these people to do something for when they left the hospital and had to earn a living. So it makes sense then that an insane person such as Zodiac would be quite adept at sewing and tailoring. He most likely learned about how to do it at the mental institution.

Also. someone working in the canvas shop aboard a boat doing fabricating.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 10:32 pm
CuriousCat
(@curiouscat)
Posts: 1328
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Curious Cat never said it was ironed on, he just touted it as an idea.

Bryan Hartnell stated that the assailant wore a black hooded mask made of a cloth material, covering his entire head and shoulders, reaching down to the waist. On the front of the four cornered mask at the chest area was a white circle (3 x 3 inches in diameter) and a symmetrical cross. He would further elaborate on the design of the crosshairs, as well as later in the 2007 Zodiac documentary, stating "It looked like it was made with a machine or with some degree of care- it wasn’t just scrawled on with white paint. It was proportional."

Thanks Richard.

In my opinion this could be a valuable clue as to who Zodiac was. Hartnell by all accounts, though few they are, seems to be indicating the hood was very well made. I suppose it’s possible he found a black bag, cut eyeholes in it and ironed on a patch, but I think even that would require some skill. He must have had it devised so it would stay where he wanted, not blind him and would turn with his head.

I’d like to know if the symbol was done by "needlework", if so, that would indicate a very high degree of sewing skill.

Either way, it took some knowledge and skill in my opinion. It’s something he could have learned at home though, not necessarily taught in a school or worked at professionally. My own mother is quite the seamstress, having done it all her life, professionally for years and still as a hobby. I have tried at times to get her to show me how to sew, but I’m hopeless, I would do well to sew a button on a shirt and that is a relatively simple procedure. However, if I had been so inclined, I could have been very handy with a needle and thread.

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 10:33 pm
Chaucer
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Posts: 1210
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Topic starter
 

In my opinion this could be a valuable clue as to who Zodiac was.

I agree. Anyone could pull on a ski mask, but Zodiac seems to have put great effort into creating this elaborate outfit. I think if we learn more about how and what materials he could have possibly used, it could provide some insight.

I’d like to know if the symbol was done by "needlework", if so, that would indicate a very high degree of sewing skill.

Me too. Creating a perfect circle with needlework is very difficult and requires great skill and training.

“Murder will out, this my conclusion.”
– Geoffrey Chaucer

 
Posted : April 11, 2019 11:08 pm
(@claypooles)
Posts: 353
Reputable Member
 

Do you guys think he used it only once?

 
Posted : April 12, 2019 12:38 am
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