I’m going to re-rail the thread by asking this question:

What is your best guess as to the material used to make the hood and tunic? I’ve seen paper bags mentioned and even leather.

Any thoughts?

Bryan Hartnell was arguably the most educated and consistent witness throughout his statements then and now. His interaction with the costumed assailant was extensive, over many minutes in daylight. He said it was a "cloth material" – and I see no reason or counterargument to his observation, which was a prolonged one. Therefore, until such a time that a valid reason surfaces that suggests he is not a reliable witness in his own attack, I believe his testimony to be reliable.

The cloth material was probably fairly sturdy in order to maintain the "cornered" appearance it was described as – so it was likely a heavy cotton fabric. If we find it reasonable to doubt Bryan Hartnell, who was without doubt a credible eyewitness, then we may as well dismiss every eyewitness throughout the entire case and just replace their observations with our own, or what fits our own theory. There has to be sufficient reason to doubt an eyewitness’ recollection of events, but with this particular observation I see none.

Bryan Hartnell was arguably the most educated and consistent witness throughout his statements then and now. His interaction with the costumed assailant was extensive, over many minutes in daylight. He said it was a "cloth material" – and I see no reason or counterargument to his observation, which was a prolonged one. Therefore, until such a time that a valid reason surfaces that suggests he is not a reliable witness in his own attack, I believe his testimony to be reliable.

The cloth material was probably fairly sturdy in order to maintain the "cornered" appearance it was described as – so it was likely a heavy cotton fabric. If we find it reasonable to doubt Bryan Hartnell, who was without doubt a credible eyewitness, then we may as well dismiss every eyewitness throughout the entire case and just replace their observations with our own, or what fits our own theory. There has to be sufficient reason to doubt an eyewitness’ recollection of events, but with this particular observation I see none.

Agreed. Hartnell is a very credible witness.

The four cornered mask has always confounded me. For the longest time, I thought he just cut a black pillow case halfway up the sides. However, as I have learned more, it seems as if Zodiac did something to give it that boxy, four cornered appearance. How? Was it stiff? Or just loosely sewn into a square?

I would imagine it had to be fairly rigid to maintain consistency over the eye region. The hood may very well have given the false impression to Hartnell he was taller than described by other eyewitnesses – testimony to its sturdiness.

I’ve already stated my complete lack of sewing skill, however due to my mother being a seamstress and having had to help her at times I know enough about material to get into trouble. Pretty much any standard material will fray or unravel at the edges unless you hem it, which requires some skill, and most is too limp to hold up on it’s own. A canvas like material has some rigidity, but it’s not easy to cut or sew and requires hemming usually.

In my semi-educated opinion, felt is a likely material. It has some stiffness and doesn’t require hemming along the edge to prevent fraying or unravelling. It’s easy to cut and sew. I have had some experience working with it using it to line desk drawers. There could well be and probably are other materials that are similar.

However even with felt or some canvas material some sort of interior frame would be required to make the hood keep it’s shape and turn with his head.

I would imagine it had to be fairly rigid to maintain consistency over the eye region. The hood may very well have given the false impression to Hartnell he was taller than described by other eyewitnesses – testimony to its sturdiness.

I’ve thought that he was wearing glasses, then put on the hood, then fastened the clip on glasses to the hood, to keep the eye holes from moving around.

The costume has always confused me. Why bother, he had already been seen by Cecelia before he put it on, he must have known that she noticed him. He believe that he had killed them both, hence “I want to report a murder, no a double murder”. If he directly knew them would he have risked being seen before he doned it ? It was not to hide his identity, it obviously had some deeper meaning to it. For me this is the biggest clue we have to his identity, he did not go to all the trouble of carefully constructing it on the off chance that he was seen.

He did it for him and him alone, was it a ritual, some sort of initiation or simply he had seen it somewhere. His legacy was the letters, this was just a mistake.

Seriously, think about about it. If it were you (obviously hyper theoretically speaker) would you bother to go to all that trouble when a simply Ski mask or Baraclava would suffice, no you wouldn’t. This is the reason he changed MO, this the reason he killed Paul Stine, he was trying to distance himself from one almighty F***Up.

The rest of it is all smoke and mirrors. This is who he was !

GSK also wore a costume during his crimes. Obviously not as elaborate as Zodiac’s, but still distinctive. A balaclava and a utility belt with various tools. GSK was also a cop. One reason cops wear a uniform is psychology. It puts them in a mindset to get over nerves and carry out the job.

GSK also wore a costume during his crimes. Obviously not as elaborate as Zodiac’s, but still distinctive. A balaclava and a utility belt with various tools. GSK was also a cop. One reason cops wear a uniform is psychology. It puts them in a mindset to get over nerves and carry out the job.

But his costume was in case he was seen, Z put his on AFTER he had already been noticed by Cecelia.

After all the publicity he received after the first two attacks, the donning of the executioner’s costume was simple self-agrandizement. It was essentially the epiphany of everything he believed he was. It also served in concealing his identity, but this almost certainly wasn’t its primary purpose. As stated above, any old head covering could have achieved this.

GSK also wore a costume during his crimes. Obviously not as elaborate as Zodiac’s, but still distinctive. A balaclava and a utility belt with various tools. GSK was also a cop. One reason cops wear a uniform is psychology. It puts them in a mindset to get over nerves and carry out the job.

But his costume was in case he was seen, Z put his on AFTER he had already been noticed by Cecelia.

Stabbing a couple in broad daylight is much different to shooting them in the dead of night. He psyched himself up with the costume. You are correct it could have been ritualistic also.

After all the publicity he received after the first two attacks, the donning of the executioner’s costume was simple self-agrandizement. It was essentially the epiphany of everything he believed he was. It also served in concealing his identity, but this almost certainly wasn’t its primary purpose. As stated above, any old head covering could have achieved this.

Sorry I am not being obtuse but why ?, he had been seen why bother ?

P.s looks like its only use Brits tonight

After all the publicity he received after the first two attacks, the donning of the executioner’s costume was simple self-agrandizement. It was essentially the epiphany of everything he believed he was. It also served in concealing his identity, but this almost certainly wasn’t its primary purpose. As stated above, any old head covering could have achieved this.

This guy’s plan is to keep his victims calm so he can get them tied up without their trying to escape or scream for help. He tells them he’s been on the run since breaking out of prison, and just wants their car/money. But he’s wearing this elaborate executioner-type outfit, and Bryan and Cecelia had to figure a guy on the run isn’t likely to stop along the way and create something like that. This fellow isn’t dressing up like that just to steal from them, while he’s on the run from prison.

In other words, he’s trying to get them to believe he means them no harm, and they need not be afraid, while wearing that terrifying outfit, that he obviously didn’t have when he escaped from prison, as he claimed.

I agree with you, that he created and wore it for himself, to play out his fantasy. But as far as the reaction it was likely to produce in his victims, it makes no logical sense. You don’t generally calm people down by scaring the hell out of them with that costume, while telling them an obvious lie.

This is one of many things that make the LB attack so different from the others. The other crimes are calculated, quick, efficient hits. At LB, it’s just bizarre.

The costume could have served a more practical purpose. Stabbings are usually much bloodier and messier than shootings. The costume could simply be his way of keeping blood off of his clothes to make his escape and later the phone call.

I don’t know anything about what Hartnell said. I have never claimed to.

You claimed Hartnell said it.

From your own posts…

Well he said it too I guess. So we said it and the guy there in the movie said it. What does this mean? I do not know but I bet it means something.

They knew it was a big guy who did these murders back in 1968. That is exactly what Brian Hartnell told police when they first spoke with him. The zodiac was a big man.

Because he was in shock Hartnell gave a raw description that lie in his subconscious thought. In his first inclination when asked by investigators he said that the culprit was a big man. I would go by the first thing he said.

Did anyone else hear Bryan Hartnell describe his attacker as "short and pouchy" …? Or was I just hearing things ?