tahoe27, Subject: Darlene’s "Lee" Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:25 pm

In the VPD reports it is mentioned one of Darlene’s good friends was a "Richard" who drove a White Cougar.

From everything I read, nothing more was mentioned. I always wondered who Richard was. No other friends mentioned him and there was never another word said about him. No questioning him, etc.

Another "good friend" was "Lee"…who supposedly brought her gifts from Mexico.

Further research led to: Robbie Lee Moncure.

I will use this name because it IS in Graysmith’s published book.

Darlene supposedly called him "Robbie" and "Lee".

Robbie, according to Graysmith, drove a ’68 white Cougar. One was supposedly following Darlene and a waitress at Terry’s jotted down the license plate number. It was registered to Robbie.

According to Bobbie Ramos, he had lived across the street from Darlene on Wallace.

When interviewed by RG Robbie stated the following:

"We were real close….friends….and that was it! She didn’t share the names of her friends with anybody. Each was sort of separate. I didn’t pry…I was just into her". (He goes on to say she was full of devilment and that she would play little games with different people)

Robbie left town in 1971.

Maybe this is why in the VPD reports it states "Richard". He didn’t know her friends and apparently they didn’t know too much about him. But according to Robbie..they were "real close friends".

Darlene seemed like an outgoing, friendly girl! Why the secrecy amongst good friends? Who doesn’t talk about their friends?? Why "separate" the two?

I think Robbie may have been the "Lee" spoken about in police reports. NOBODY offered anything further as to who this was. The only other good friend mentioned was Richard in the white Cougar, who turns out to be Robbie Lee…

morf13, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:20 pm

Do you know his real name? Can you send it in a PM?

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:46 pm

I think Graysmith tweeked the name, but yes.

This guy would have been worthy of interviewing. I sure hope LE did.

"Robbie" states that basically Darlene kept her friends private. He obviously wasn’t mingling with them. What made their relationship different? Did he know a different side of her? What were the games she played?

This was her good friend…not a co-worker. Where is his statement?!

(…seems he traded in a Chevy Impala in April of ’69 for his Cougar—-this according to Graysmith, pg 415 ZU, so…?)

Zodiac? Mmmm, probably not according to description, but it sparks my interest.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:04 am

1968 Mercury Cougar

Looks sort of like a Mustang. :suspect:

sandy betts, Subject: Wallace st Apt’s Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:46 am

Thanks Tahoe, That is some good information. I wrote down every name that lived at the apts across from Darlene’s apt on Wallace st. I felt it could be important at the time , so I checked the yr before she was killed and a yr after, to see who had moved, and who was still there . The name Robbie Lee Moncure didn’t ring a bell, neither did Bobbie Ramos show up as living across from her at least in the yrs I looked. Tracers has the 69 book, maybe she can check for that yr ? It will be a least a week before I can get back to Vallejo.

The part that was in Graysmiths book ,about someone named Lee bringing gifts from Mexico ? I wouldn’t count on that as being a fact. Pam told me she wasn’t sure if his name was Lee or Carl ? Last name could have been Proctor ?
She just wasn’t sure what his name was. When ever she spoke to me about the person bringing gifts to Darlene, Pam would say : That man.
She also said that one of those gifts was wrapped in paper , was bendable ,like a stack of money.
It was after that that Darlene started to pay her in $20’s instead of tip change.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:54 am

Bobbie Ramos mentioned that Darlene told her "Lee" (Robbie) lived across the street from her on Wallace in an apartment and "Robbie" himself confirmed it. He spoke of Darlene once flying a kite on Wallace.

The actual address was: 553 Wallace. I do have confirmation of the person with his last name living at that address.

This was DIRECTLY across the street from Darlene’s house:

Edited to add photo

bentley, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:20 am

1968 Mercury Cougar

Looks sort of like a Mustang. :suspect:

Same chassis, same wheel track. Mercury a division of Ford.

Many of the American cars mentioned in the Z case share matching characteristics. The big three auto makers, GM, Chrysler and Ford all had subdivisions, these subdivisions built cars using the same basic platform, engine, chassis and parts as other models in their division, altering the fenders. bumpers, tail lights etc. for a different look. For a layperson it’s easy to mistake one for another even in daytime, and for anyone at night.

Some examples would be:

Ford Mustang – Mercury Cougar
Ford Falcon – Mercury Comet
Chevy Camaro – Pontiac Firebird
Chevy Impala – Pontiac Bonneville
Chevy Malibu – Buick Skylark – Oldsmobile Cutlass – Pontiac LeMans
Dodge Dart – Plymouth Valiant

Additionally, within divisions (particularly General Motors), various names are used on the same basic car with only very minor changes in trim packages and chrome, such as:

Chevy Chevelle – Malibu – Super Sport
Pontiac Tempenst – Lemans – GTO
Olds Cutlass – 442 -F85
Chevy Biscayne – Impala – Bel Aire

sandy betts, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:21 pm

Bobbie Ramos mentioned that Darlene told her "Lee" (Robbie) lived across the street from her on Wallace in an apartment and "Robbie" himself confirmed it. He spoke of Darlene once flying a kite on Wallace.

The actual address was: 553 Wallace. I do have confirmation of the person with his last name living at that address.

This was DIRECTLY across the street from Darlene’s house:

Edited to add photo

Thanks Tahoe, I just don’t have the notes in front of me. But yes those are the same apts I wrote down all of the people living there before and after she died. I just didn’t remember seeing his name there, For sure I didn’t see Bobbies name there, I would remember her name. Sometimes the city directory’s miss printing names of people living at certain address’s, especially if they don’t live there for very long.
On the sidewalk in front of those apts , I saw that someone had carved into the wet cement R+ D, I did take a picture of it, but it is very faint. That was important to me because of my RH suspect.

sandy betts, Subject: Car Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:28 pm

1968 Mercury Cougar

Looks sort of like a Mustang. :suspect:

Same chassis, same wheel track. Mercury a division of Ford.

Many of the American cars mentioned in the Z case share matching characteristics. The big three auto makers, GM, Chrysler and Ford all had subdivisions, these subdivisions built cars using the same basic platform, engine, chassis and parts as other models in their division, altering the fenders. bumpers, tail lights etc. for a different look. For a layperson it’s easy to mistake one for another even in daytime, and for anyone at night.

Some examples would be:

Ford Mustang – Mercury Cougar
Ford Falcon – Mercury Comet
Chevy Camaro – Pontiac Firebird
Chevy Impala – Pontiac Bonneville
Chevy Malibu – Buick Skylark – Oldsmobile Cutlass – Pontiac LeMans
Dodge Dart – Plymouth Valiant

Additionally, within divisions (particularly General Motors), various names are used on the same basic car with only very minor changes in trim packages and chrome, such as:

Chevy Chevelle – Malibu – Super Sport
Pontiac Tempenst – Lemans – GTO
Olds Cutlass – 442 -F85
Chevy Biscayne – Impala – Bel Aire

I am so glad that you posted this ! I needed to know for sure that the falcon did look like the car that I got away from in 1968 Vallejo. I did do some reading up on the Comet ,and found that it had the bucket seats and the center console, that Kathleen Johns said she saw in her abductors car. The color of the car I saw, was a light golden brown, some would think tan. Would that wheel base be even close to the Lake B car ?

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:31 pm

@ Bentley. Yes…funny how they did that! It’s like..I always like Trans-ams, but not Firebirds. But they were very close!

@ Sandy – Bobbie Ramos DIDN’T live there. She was the one who mentioned "Lee" living there.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:50 pm

*

What bothers me about this is that apparently this guy wasn’t interviewed. HE IS THE "LEE" DARLENE WAS FRIENDS WITH!! Accoridng to Bobbie Ramos, Darlene used "Lee" when she talked about him.

RG states he asked Lynch and Lynch stated something like they focused on her family and co-workers. Co-workers who BARELY KNEW HER!!!

"Robbie/Lee" clearly states he and Darlene were "real close".

Where is the interview with Robbie or Sue–Darlene’s close friend (and also Dean’s cousin)??

NOT saying this guy was the Zodiac killer, but he obviously knew a different side of Darlene. He was not friends of Darlene’s "other" friends. "Robbie" states "he didn’t pry". I think he was very worthy of talking to…and it would seem no one ever did, aside of Graysmith years later.

–On a side note. I think maybe Mike Mageau knew him (or of him) and maybe that is who Mike is referring to on the doc DVD. I think Mike is thinking of this guy…and his car…and getting them confused.

sandy betts, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:03 pm

Thanks for clearing that up Tahoe, I thought I had read that Bobbie also lived there. ( I shouldn’t read late at night )

This Lee guy is someone we can not ignore ! Even if he is not involved in her murder he may know something ? I have met Darlene’s cousin ,who is the brother of Sue, at the last Blue Rock springs task force meeting. Leo should know how to contact her ?

If Lee’s name is not Richard or Robbie Lee Moncure , I won’t be able to find him. If you have found that he has another name please email me, and I will see if I can get him to post, so we can all ask him questions about Darlene.

There was definitely many sides to Darlene, and "many" men she was" very" close to. She had a nack for being in love with a lot of guys at the same time. Buzz for one, told me that she was in love with him, and that she even bought a home just a few blocks from his home .
I knew a Richard and Robbie in 1969 ,they were brothers, but the last name was not Moncure.

AuthUser, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:34 pm

FWIW:

I found a Richard Moncure at 2932 Georgia St., Vallejo, Ca in the 1967 Polk Directory.
(sorry, no middle name or middle initial)
He worked at Mare Island Naval Station.

Good hunting,
Auth

morf13, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:51 pm

FWIW:

I found a Richard Moncure at 2932 Georgia St., Vallejo, Ca in the 1967 Polk Directory.
(sorry, no middle name or middle initial)
He worked at Mare Island Naval Station.

Good hunting,
Auth

That is likely to be him

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:04 pm

In the VPD reports it is mentioned one of Darlene’s good friends was a "Richard" who drove a White Cougar.

From everything I read, nothing more was mentioned. I always wondered who Richard was. No other friends mentioned him and there was never another word said about him. No questioning him, etc.

Another "good friend" was "Lee"…who supposedly brought her gifts from Mexico.

Further research led to: Robbie Lee Moncure.

I will use this name because it IS in Graysmith’s published book.

Darlene supposedly called him "Robbie" and "Lee".

Robbie, according to Graysmith, drove a ’68 white Cougar. One was supposedly following Darlene and a waitress at Terry’s jotted down the license plate number. It was registered to Robbie.

According to Bobbie Ramos, he had lived across the street from Darlene on Wallace.

When interviewed by RG Robbie stated the following:

"We were real close….friends….and that was it! She didn’t share the names of her friends with anybody. Each was sort of separate. I didn’t pry…I was just into her". (He goes on to say she was full of devilment and that she would play little games with different people)

Robbie left town in 1971.

Maybe this is why in the VPD reports it states "Richard". He didn’t know her friends and apparently they didn’t know too much about him. But according to Robbie..they were "real close friends".

Darlene seemed like an outgoing, friendly girl! Why the secrecy amongst good friends? Who doesn’t talk about their friends?? Why "separate" the two?

I think Robbie may have been the "Lee" spoken about in police reports. NOBODY offered anything further as to who this was. The only other good friend mentioned was Richard in the white Cougar, who turns out to be Robbie Lee…

I found this man living at an address that fits " across the street from Darlene on Wallace, and whos last name also fit exept it’s without the "e".
The problem is he was born 1953, so he would have been 16 years old in 1969, maybe he had an older brother named Richard or Lee?
I have tried to find such a brother, no luck so far.

U.S. Public Records Index, Volume 1
about Jeffrey S Moncur
Name: Jeffrey S Moncur
Birth Date: 14 Feb 1953
Address: 553 Wallace Ave, Vallejo, CA, 94590-7173 (1989)
[12 05th 71, Vallejo, CA, 94589]
[1917 Sereno Dr, Vallejo, CA, 94589-2838 (1993)]

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:28 pm

I actually have his info and know how to reach him.

Thanks everyone. :star:

sandy betts, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:57 am

FWIW:

I found a Richard Moncure at 2932 Georgia St., Vallejo, Ca in the 1967 Polk Directory.
(sorry, no middle name or middle initial)
He worked at Mare Island Naval Station.

Good hunting,
Auth

Thanks Auth, I doubt that there were two Richard Moncure’s in Vallejo. Looks like you found the correct one. I will be in Vallejo next week, and will look to see where he moved to after 1967.

wv171, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:17 pm

You all Killing me naming all them nice Muscle Car’s … I want a Chevelle next 71 down to 66 with Turbo Jet "Big Block" engine factory

69 Cougar’s was when they widen and lenghten the Cougar bodies..

So Sandy a "68" would sure have the small front wheelbase..

Chassis Data= "68" Cougar

Not found Width yet

Cougar, based on a stretched version of the Ford Mustang.

The Mercury Cougar was wider, longer, and heavier for 1969,

Model "68"

Wheelbase=111 in

Overall Length=190.3 in

Width

Front Tread

Rear Tread

Tires=E70 x 14

Production:
2D Hardtop: 81,014
XR-7 2D Hardtop: 32,712

Engines:
289 V8 195 bhp.
289 V8 200 bhp.
289 V8 225 bhp.
302 V8 210 bhp.
302 V8 230 bhp.
390 V8 280 bhp.
390 V8 320 bhp.
390 V8 335 bhp @ 4800 rpm, 427 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm.
427 V8 390 bhp.
428 V8 335 bhp.

Performance:
427/390: 0-60 in 7.1 seconds, 1/4 mile in 15.12 seconds @ 93.6 mph.

Scared Kid, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:32 am

wv,

forget the Chevelle, 1968 Camaro Z-28 is the only muscle car anyone should ever want!

tahoe27, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:40 pm

FWIW:

I found a Richard Moncure at 2932 Georgia St., Vallejo, Ca in the 1967 Polk Directory.
(sorry, no middle name or middle initial)
He worked at Mare Island Naval Station.

Good hunting,
Auth

Thanks Auth, I doubt that there were two Richard Moncure’s in Vallejo. Looks like you found the correct one. I will be in Vallejo next week, and will look to see where he moved to after 1967.

Yes, thanks Auth. It does appear he lived there in ’67, but later he did have the Wallace address.

sandy betts, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:04 pm

I actually have his info and know how to reach him.

Thanks everyone. :star:

Have you reached him yet ? If so what did he say? Is he related to Jeffrey S. Moncur who lived at the Wallace st apt.?

Thanks by the way to TF, for searching the name.

greg, Subject: Darlene Ferrin & Mike Mageau 7/4/69 :: Darlene’s "Lee" Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:34 pm

Has anyone run this Moncur fellow past Pam and see if she has any input or memory into who he could have been?

kirkham, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:23 pm

wv,

forget the Chevelle, 1968 Camaro Z-28 is the only muscle car anyone should ever want!

give me a 65 Fastback 2+2 289 anyday..maybe not as fast but far cooler looking than the bland early Camaro’s

sandy betts, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:38 pm

Has anyone run this Moncur fellow past Pam and see if she has any input or memory into who he could have been?

Not that I know of Greg, but I will asap. The person who she has mentioned to me , whom she said was the Lee that Darlene knew , was named Lee Proctor, or Lee Key. Pam was confused about the name being Lee or Carl Proctor or Carl Key, or Lee key. She told me that in 1990. I didn’t check that out ,because she and I had a suspect of our own at that time ,Kathleen Johns also had the same man ,so we were very sure we had the the right suspect .
Pam said that the Lee guy was from Texas ,and that he drove up to Calif. with her mother and sister, after visiting Joanna (another sister),in TX.

1971
Richard L Moncure
U.S. City Directories, 1822-1995
Name: Richard L Moncure
Residence Year: 1971
Street address: 553 Wallace Av Apt 5
Residence Place: Vallejo, Solano, California, USA
Occupation: Sht Mtl Worker
Publication Title: Vallejo, California, City Directory, 1971

1969
Richard Emp Mins Moncure
U.S. City Directories, 1822-1995
Name: Richard Emp Mins Moncure
Residence Year: 1969
Street address: 2932 Georgia St
Residence Place: Vallejo, Solano, California, USA
Publication Title: Vallejo, California, City Directory, 1968-1969

1967
Richard Emp Mins Moncure
U.S. City Directories, 1822-1995
Name: Richard Emp Mins Moncure
Residence Year: 1967
Street address: 2932 Georgia St
Residence Place: Vallejo, Solano, California, USA
Publication Title: Vallejo, California, City Directory, 1967

I just noticed something Sandy wrote after looking at this guy again:

sandy betts, Subject: Re: Darlene’s "Lee" Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:38 pm

greg wrote:
Has anyone run this Moncur fellow past Pam and see if she has any input or memory into who he could have been?

Not that I know of Greg, but I will asap. The person who she has mentioned to me , whom she said was the Lee that Darlene knew , was named Lee Proctor, or Lee Key. Pam was confused about the name being Lee or Carl Proctor or Carl Key, or Lee key. She told me that in 1990. I didn’t check that out ,because she and I had a suspect of our own at that time ,Kathleen Johns also had the same man ,so we were very sure we had the the right suspect .
Pam said that the Lee guy was from Texas ,and that he drove up to Calif. with her mother and sister, after visiting Joanna (another sister),in TX.

This guy lived in Texas when I found him and was married to a Hispanic woman.