Not necessarily..it is also possible that Dee had only heard about a guy who had bragged about CJB’s murder. Or she could have heard it from Cecilia Shepard, who actually was from the LA area. However, Pam indeed states that Darlene had seen the murder.

Pam clearly mentions two things regarding CJB’s homicide (or the ‘killing’ which she believes was the one of CJB). First that Dee had talked not with Pam but with her mother. Obviously Pam had been present when Darlene talked to her mom. The second thing is that Pam clearly refers to ‘a few years ago’, so obviously did her father somehow:

‘She had told my mom that..uh..remember the killing I told you about a few years ago? Well, its gonna be in the paper tomorrow, so don’t be surprised. With that in mind I looked at Darlene and said ‘What are you talking about?’. And she said ‘Never mind him, we get home with that baby. You shouldn’t be out.’ So my dad was walking in the room [of the parent’s house] and says ‘Darlene are you scaring mom with these horror stories again, you get outta here and get home..’

‘..which is the stabbing that she’s seen. She’s seen her to get killed. (Mod.: So that’s why he was stalking her?) Right.’

It also seems to be no secret that the ‘stalker’ was already known in the Ferrin family.

QT

What are you quoting QT? Where from?

What are you quoting QT? Where from?

The video with Pam, posted above. Not necessarily reliable but at least some things from Darlenes sister. We should also consider that there was no internet where Pam could have had such information from. She obviously made her own assumptions according to other sources, such as newspaper or investigators (e.g. Toschi) as well as her own observations. I still see no reason why she should have lied during that moment, it rather appears as if she had simply given her opinion regarding some points, others most likely were very true (such as the conversation of Darlene with her mother on the day of her killing).

Besides the Z letter giving credit about finding out regarding his ‘Riverside activities’, the interview with Pam is a secondary link between Z and Cheri Jo Bates. If trustworthy, this may lead to the conclusion that Z had not chosen his victims accidentially. It’d be very simple to link some of the crimes to each other. According to Pam, Darlene had known Betty Lou Jensen and was a witness of the CJB homicide. Cecelia Shepard, also from Vallejo area, had ties to San Bernardino. And she had worked as a nurse. Then Paul Stine is shot. Paul’s brother Joe had ties to Modesto, where Kathleen Johns had been abducted. Working in the Latterman Hospital, nearby where Paul Stine was shot, had Donna Lass been working. Although rather assumptions, this altogether may deliver a round picture of Z’s ties to his victims. Not to forget: Cecelia Shepard not only had ties to San Bernardino, where she had worked (or studied) but also to Loma Linda, which is very close to Riverside (think this is quite interesting as it ties CJB/Cecilia locally together somehow):

http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?pa … =148512190

Her mother, most likely with Cecelia, had lived at 10733 Mead Ln, Loma Linda, CA. Not to forget the recent threads about Leonard Bates, who not only might have been a relative of Cheri Jo Bates but went to Loma Linda Academy, where Cecilia’s father had been a teacher. Now let Leonard Bates (viewtopic.php?f=96&t=3083) be a relative of Cheri Jo (assumption) and at the same time a pupil of Cecelia Shepard’s father and you can get a very clear picture of who should actually be in the focus of further investigation..

Next: Cecelia went to the La Sierra Academy, Seventh-Day Adventist school, which was located in Loma Linda until 1990. So besides PAM’s statement and the Z letter giving credit to his Riverside activities, the definite Z victim Cecelia Shepard is another solid link between Zodiac and the nearby Riverside area. Given that circumstances, Pam’s statement regarding Darlene being a witness of the CJB murder must not necessarily be wrong.

Because if Darlene Ferrin had known Cecelia, it is absolutely possible that the two had hung around next to some structures where CJB had been killed (the partially empty buildings were said to be a meeting place for stundents and military guys as the latter were not allowed to be on the RCC campus). This would, btw, also explain the late killing of CJB (as the library not necessarily had open that late).

And I continue: There was a Milton L Bates, who died in 2010. His son – Leonard Bates – is mentioned in his obituary. Milton L Bates had studied not only in Loma Linda, most likely tying him to be the father of the Leonard Bates of Loma Linda, but he also had studied at the Pacific Union College in Angwin. It’s the school that Bryan Hartnell used to attend. Angwin is only 13 miles away from St. Helena, where Cecelia Shepard and Bryan Hartnell had been on the day of Cecelia’s murder (close to Lake Berryessa). This may be seen as a link not only of Cecilia Shepard to Riverside, but also as a link of Leonard Bates himself to the North Bay area, placing him only a few miles away from the other homicides.

No need to ask who my preferred POI is..

http://www.recordnet.com/article/201011 … /311079997
Milton also had worked for the ‘state prison system as a laboratory technologist’, where he may have been confronted with cryptanalysis, was a stamp collector (double stamps on Z letters) and was a member of the NRA (potentially giving access to weapons).

There even might be a connection to Kim Wendy Allen (second post):
http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/6 … on-College

QT

Not necessarily..it is also possible that Dee had only heard about a guy who had bragged about CJB’s murder. Or she could have heard it from Cecilia Shepard, who actually was from the LA area. However, Pam indeed states that Darlene had seen the murder.

Pam clearly mentions two things regarding CJB’s homicide (or the ‘killing’ which she believes was the one of CJB). First that Dee had talked not with Pam but with her mother. Obviously Pam had been present when Darlene talked to her mom. The second thing is that Pam clearly refers to ‘a few years ago’, so obviously did her father somehow:

‘She had told my mom that..uh..remember the killing I told you about a few years ago? Well, its gonna be in the paper tomorrow, so don’t be surprised. With that in mind I looked at Darlene and said ‘What are you talking about?’. And she said ‘Never mind him, we get home with that baby. You shouldn’t be out.’ So my dad was walking in the room [of the parent’s house] and says ‘Darlene are you scaring mom with these horror stories again, you get outta here and get home..’

‘..which is the stabbing that she’s seen. She’s seen her to get killed. (Mod.: So that’s why he was stalking her?) Right.’

It also seems to be no secret that the ‘stalker’ was already known in the Ferrin family.

QT

You make no sense. You say Darlene saw the murder, but was not necessarily ever in Riverside?

As I said in my previous post:

"Not necessarily..it is also possible that Dee had only heard about a guy who had bragged about CJB’s murder. Or she could have heard it from Cecilia Shepard, who actually was from the LA area. However, Pam indeed states that Darlene had seen the murder."

The other text, written in italic, is just what Pam had referred to. I rather think she had learned about the murder than having seen it. Nevertheless, there was a rumor that Darlene had flown with/to other girls to the LA area, which had caused many speculations.

If Pam was correct, then Darlene had been in Riverside, of course.

QT

Quick….

I don’t know, given the notoriety of the Z case, the Bates case, the Ferrin case, the Sheppard case, you would think if these were connected via the gals knowing each other; the friends, family members, school mates, whoever, would have by now come forward publicly with any of these connections. No one, other than Pam, has made any of these connections, without providing any proof to any of it. It’s a real stretch to me.
One thing from this tape I’d always noticed….It was apparent to me that Darlene’s father didn’t think much about her stories. Just overhearing Darlene, he asks if she’s scaring her mother with her stories again, then dismisses her and tells her to go home. to me it smacks of dad saying quit spreading your BS stories. So Darlene says the next day there will be a major story in the news about the murder she saw? It never happened, there was no story, no newspaper was working on any such story, so that was just Darlene BS, or Pam BS. Anyhow there was never any such story.

BayArea60s

As I said in my previous post:

"Not necessarily..it is also possible that Dee had only heard about a guy who had bragged about CJB’s murder. Or she could have heard it from Cecilia Shepard, who actually was from the LA area. However, Pam indeed states that Darlene had seen the murder."

The other text, written in italic, is just what Pam had referred to. I rather think she had learned about the murder than having seen it. Nevertheless, there was a rumor that Darlene had flown with/to other girls to the LA area, which had caused many speculations.

If Pam was correct, then Darlene had been in Riverside, of course.

As I said in my previous post: "You make no sense. You say Darlene saw the murder, but was not necessarily ever in Riverside?" My idea of the purpose of this website is to actually try to solve the murder. If you produce a video of a victim’s family member spouting a lot of second-hand BS, well, whoop-de-doo, if that’s what floats your boat, but it has nothing to do with solving the murder mystery.
QT

As I said in my previous post:

"Not necessarily..it is also possible that Dee had only heard about a guy who had bragged about CJB’s murder. Or she could have heard it from Cecilia Shepard, who actually was from the LA area. However, Pam indeed states that Darlene had seen the murder."

The other text, written in italic, is just what Pam had referred to. I rather think she had learned about the murder than having seen it. Nevertheless, there was a rumor that Darlene had flown with/to other girls to the LA area, which had caused many speculations.

If Pam was correct, then Darlene had been in Riverside, of course.

As I said in my previous post: "You make no sense. You say Darlene saw the murder, but was not necessarily ever in Riverside?" My idea of the purpose of this website is to actually try to solve the murder. If you produce a video of a victim’s family member spouting a lot of second-hand BS, well, whoop-de-doo, if that’s what floats your boat, but it has nothing to do with solving the murder mystery.

Again: It was Pam not me claiming that Darlene had witnessed the murder..

Take it or leave it, I never had claimed even once that Darlene had been in Riverside. It is your own decision if you like boats or whoop-de-doos or Pam’s statements, however you should better focus on your own input instead of talking about ‘solving the murder mystery’.

QT

As I said in my previous post:

"Not necessarily..it is also possible that Dee had only heard about a guy who had bragged about CJB’s murder. Or she could have heard it from Cecilia Shepard, who actually was from the LA area. However, Pam indeed states that Darlene had seen the murder."

The other text, written in italic, is just what Pam had referred to. I rather think she had learned about the murder than having seen it. Nevertheless, there was a rumor that Darlene had flown with/to other girls to the LA area, which had caused many speculations.

If Pam was correct, then Darlene had been in Riverside, of course.

As I said in my previous post: "You make no sense. You say Darlene saw the murder, but was not necessarily ever in Riverside?" My idea of the purpose of this website is to actually try to solve the murder. If you produce a video of a victim’s family member spouting a lot of second-hand BS, well, whoop-de-doo, if that’s what floats your boat, but it has nothing to do with solving the murder mystery.

Again: It was Pam not me claiming that Darlene had witnessed the murder..

Take it or leave it, I never had claimed even once that Darlene had been in Riverside. It is your own decision if you like boats or whoop-de-doos or Pam’s statements, however you should better focus on your own input instead of talking about ‘solving the murder mystery’.

QT

I’m trying to follow you, but it’s difficult. So basically, you are admitting that what Pam says is false—right? Then why post it?

I’m trying to follow you, but it’s difficult. So basically, you are admitting that what Pam says is false—right? Then why post it?

Do you think EVERYTHING that Pam had said is false? Should I’ve cut the video or what..still we don’t even know if it didn’t happen (that Darlene was present). No need to watch it if someone expects every piece of information to be 100% correct. I think that Darlene had known about the murder from second authority, for what its worth. What is important is that Pam was absolutely convinced that Dee had known Betty Lou and that she had knowledge about a murder, one that had happened ‘a few years ago’. For years I had thought Darlene meant Betty Lou’s but obviously it was about another murder, according to Pam: CJB’S. Alone the information regarding the father who disagreed with Dee scaring her mom with horror stories again is enough content to watch the video, imo.

QT

Nevertheless, there was a rumor that Darlene had flown with/to other girls to the LA area, which had caused many speculations.

That just about sums it up. Rumors and speculation.

If you’re fascinated by that sort of thing, then by all means – that’s your business. But it should be pointed out very clearly that she simply isn’t a credible source of information. To new people, especially – people who aren’t knowledgeable about this case or its cast of characters – it’s more important to know this (that she isn’t a credible source) than to know that she’s the sister of one of the victims (because the latter sounds impressive – it’s easy to be influenced by that fact, surely her sister must know something, right?).