Shouldn’t this be a Nash Rambler though?

Shouldn’t this be a Nash Rambler though?

The video footage of the Rambler was taken the following day. It had been taken in for evidence. That is an investigator’s car in the photo above..or possibly the photographer’s. I moved the photos (to) below as they are not a part of the "crime scene" itself.

I find this one interesting.

The tire track was obviously there prior to David’s murder. It appears to be fresh and in the same angle as the Rambler would have been. Could this be the tracks of a car parked next to them at one point? It looks like a wide tire…or is that just my take? Obviously the car didn’t back-out over David, but I wonder why we never heard of any tire casts being made. Maybe it was the Rambler’s–it was mentioned the car had changed positions, but regardless…there are plenty of tracks in that dirt, yet we never read anything about them.

Here are two stills combined Tahoe, to give the widest perspective of the turnout.

Looks like a bf goodrich tread to me..probably passenger car and not a truck tread..i cant make out zig zag zag tread or not…guessing f70-14 tire and not 60 series 15 inch rubber…run of the mil car and tire..could be on any 14 inch rim size…the widest tire of the era on passenger cars was the f60× 15 which i think first appeared on 1969 boss 302..not sure if corvette were even runin that size 68ish era…im goin with goodrich bias ply tire available anywhere as were all other types/brands but that definetly looks passenger car tire…detail so bad if tire was chunked would be a huge piece of evidence..well at the time….just a wag on my part here

May be x drove his allard or vw, ross hitched a ride or tk bummed a ride off a college kid…mansons bunch would have driven dune buggies i would guess

There’s also another tire impression in the same shot, different tire tread, could be from truck, in the other direction. I think that first tire track mentioned would actually be driving through David’s car, it’s heading in a SE or NW direction depending on whether it was entering or leaving area.

BayArea60s

Edit…So the cops feet at the top right of the pic, just beyond him would be the Rambler? I was looking at this as a daytime shot, along with my own misdirection. I guess if they brought in ample lighting that wouldn’t necessarily mean it was a day time pic. I was also initially thinking that was a shadow at the top of David’s outline was from someone standing there, the tread would be hard to see, but I think it was made prior to the event. So when David fell to the ground his head was basically right up to the driver’s side of the killer’s car? You would think they would have taken a cast of that tread, I mean the tread is very evident.

I agree that 2nd set looks like what is now a vintage truck tire tread..or may be a passenger car winter tread tire..none of those treads look like a "military tread" to me..again totally wag on my part…

Thanks UKS…always nice to have added perspective.

Bay…we don’t actually know where the killer’s car was parked. I don’t think it (if there was one) was parked there at the time…or they would have had to drive over David. That’s what it looks like to me anyway.

Hi-

Well, I am sure there were many tire tracks in that turnout. But IF the one in question was from the killer’s car, maybe the car had driven up far enough forward (i.e., east) so as to have passed the point where David would eventually fall. Therefore, if the rear of the car was forward of that point David could have fallen onto the track and not hit the car at all. I don’t know squat about tires but if it was a common tire then collecting it would have been an academic exercise, anyway. Neither my friend Jim Dean (retired VPD who did crime lab stuff) nor I believes that bit about the ground being "frozen solid." I think they trampled the scene so badly that they could not recover any footprints if there were any. Instead of admitting that, it was the ground’s fault. Wayne Waterman was of this opinion in 2001 or so. He was very critical of the on scene investigation being done by Benicia. It was 22 degrees at night but not during the day. So I believe it was possible for tracks to have been left in what looked like ground that was a bit water soaked/muddy.

Mike

Hi-

Well, I am sure there were many tire tracks in that turnout. But IF the one in question was from the killer’s car, maybe the car had driven up far enough forward (i.e., east) so as to have passed the point where David would eventually fall. Therefore, if the rear of the car was forward of that point David could have fallen onto the track and not hit the car at all. I don’t know squat about tires but if it was a common tire then collecting it would have been an academic exercise, anyway. Neither my friend Jim Dean (retired VPD who did crime lab stuff) nor I believes that bit about the ground being "frozen solid." I think they trampled the scene so badly that they could not recover any footprints if there were any. Instead of admitting that, it was the ground’s fault. Wayne Waterman was of this opinion in 2001 or so. He was very critical of the on scene investigation being done by Benicia. It was 22 degrees at night but not during the day. So I believe it was possible for tracks to have been left in what looked like ground that was a bit water soaked/muddy.

Mike

But would the car have had room to move forward (toward the gate/fence) without disturbing any blood trail and/or Betty Lou?

The track looks looks awfully fresh in that mud. I too doubt the ground was frozen. I see why the gravel area wouldn’t have any results though.

Mike R.
That’s a real possibility, if not probability. they get on the scene, they have to investigate to some degree, means feet everywhere. I’ve heard the RO’s state that the ground was frozen solid, and my thought went to wouldn’t that leave better tire tracks?

Must be a good explanation for the tire track. I’m thinking the cops knew the origin of it and that’s why it wasn’t casted. Almost looks like the track was made the following day after the ice? would have melted into the dirt, 20 degrees would definitely create frost making the low parts of the ground wet. I don’t think that wetness comes from David at all. That car we see the next day in the turnout could very well have created that track.

There are no marks through the blood though. I don’t think any investigator would have driven that close. I don’t think the wetness comes from David either, Bay.

The tire track could have simply been from anyone there prior to David (or as I mentioned, even the Rambler itself). I just thought the angle of it would have placed it parallel to David’s car. And, it sure seemed awfully fresh..which shows the benefit of multiple angled photographs because you can’t tell that in this one–although we do see the wetness (of at least the next day) in a different track above.

You can sure see how much traffic of large trucks had gone through that area. that spot is where trucks would go through if turning right onto LHR. There was some heavy work being done up in that area at the time. If you follow that one car tread through the blood area, I think I do see tread and a tire impression going through the blood area, and coming out the other side, its not as present as where the water stored up in the rutted area, but even in that area you can see where tread is and then nothing. We wouldn’t even see that tread if the tire hadn’t gone through that area when it was muddy, like the following morning. I think that’s why the tire track is so pronounced in the wettest area. That car in the pic looks like a prime suspect for leaving the track to me.