Totally agree. I read recently that Z fired 10 shots at Lake Herman Road. If we assume the final 5 went into the back of Betty Lou, and the one prior to them was the one that killed David, that would mean there were 4 other shots. Some hit the car. I believe all 10 shell casings were recovered, nine outside near each other and one inside the car, but do we know where all the bullets went?

The reason I ask is that there may have been more than one warning shot fired, possibly while David was repositioning the car to get away. My point is that Owen’s story makes more sense with a greater time lapse between the first shot and subsequent ones. If, say, 4 shots were fired in fairly rapid succession, that should’ve been very noticeable and memorable to him.

I have stated previously, that this witness should have been looked at closely by police, as a suspect, due to the fact he was at the scene of the LHR crime, during the small window when the crime happened. Due to this, and multiple inconsistencies in his statements to police, along with other circumstantial things, I feel he should have been checked out a bit closer. I am NOT calling this man the Zodiac!! I repeat, I am NOT calling this man the Zodiac, merely saying that police should have ruled him out properly."

Hi, I see this thread ended in 2016 but I’d just like to add the following

With respect, I can’t think of anything extra the police could have done in checking out Mr Owen with regard to the Lake Herman Road slayings. They did have him drive them to and fro from his home to his work place, I’m sure they would have took timings to verify his story. The clocking in system was still in use in the late 60’s, so the time he arrived at his work would have been recorded. Surely his wife would have been able to supply the police with the time he left for work. He would have been a POI as far as the police were concerned. I’m sure they ruled him out after verifying that his story checked out with regard to the timings they took.

With regard to the fact that he didn’t see anyone as he passed the turnout, he’ll have surveyed the scene for mere seconds. Z might just have got out of his car, heard Owen approaching, and ducked behind his car as he passed. The victims car would have pointed away from him, it’s possible he missed seeing them.

With the greatest respect, if I had been Mr Owen and had been asked the same questions as supplied by Morf, and this is not a criticism, I’d have felt a little bit wary that I was been looked at with regard to being a suspect as opposed to a witness. As I said no disrespect intended.

Regards

Ted

If you go thru the LB police reports you will see that (A) James Owen was briefly investigate and or questioned following that incident (at least it appears that way).

I think he might have been a brief suspect during the LB investigation and no one recognised that he was also a relevant person during the prior LH investigation. I think he was oddly proximate to both crime scenes.

I had promised to dig this document up but I’m sure someone has a PDF file of the LB reports and could do a quick search to locate it.

This is how cases get cracked.

If you go thru the LB police reports you will see that (A) James Owen was briefly investigate and or questioned following that incident (at least it appears that way).

I think he might have been a brief suspect during the LB investigation and no one recognised that he was also a relevant person during the prior LH investigation. I think he was oddly proximate to both crime scenes.

Interesting.

Easily disproved, I’m just saying I did read every LB police report I could find (from top to bottom) At the time Tejasrob had made some interesting remarks about James Owen so when I came across that name in the LB reports it sort of hit me.

Think this is them.

Owen was mentioned in the BRS report, but it was in regards to his signature.

I think others have already been down this path and yeah Probably not interesting (but I am saying LB not blue rock.)

Think this is them.

LHR Police Files.pdf

Thanks for the link Traveller very helpful.

Couple of things. Firstly, in the report Mr Owen was referred to as" returning from work", shouldn’t this be "going to work"?

Secondly, as the Yours approached the crime scene, and as their headlights lit up the area Mr’s Your noticed that David Faraday put his hands on the steering wheel. I’m wondering, (seeing as he seems to have been spooked by the Yours approach) if Z had perhaps pulled up earlier and driven off, spooking Faraday, much as he had done at the BRS crime scene? Thus when the Yours approached, David Faraday perhaps thought it was Z returning, and was getting ready to get out of there, hence his pitting his hands on the steering wheel.

Regards

Ted

I can’t say that I felt he was lying about anything or misleading me in any way, the main thing that stood out was the lack of concern he had considering he lived in the same town as a serial killer that was targeting victims in his own kid’s age range. That and his comment about ‘cruising around’

I grew up 10 minutes from both ONS and Richard Ramirez’s murders. I didn’t think of it much. The killings were stories on the news. I am not sure that his lack of concern over the Zodiac Killer means anything. "Cruising around" is very common verbiage. Nothing about Owen’s responses gave me pause. Admittedly, I can’t judge his body language or the tone of his voice. I don’t understand why he wouldn’t mention the gunshot, but this is common behavior for witnesses. They often leave information out. When he says that he didn’t think the gunshot was important….remember the Detective in Napa who responded to the LB killings who interviewed Cecilia Shepherd on "This is the Zodiac Speaking" (I don’t recall his name), said that he failed to mention that Cecilia Shepherd mentioned that she saw the Zodiac without his hood on. He said the same thing when asked why that wasn’t in his report! I just shrug that off to people being careless. If a Detective can make that mistake, who should damn well know better, why can’t a witness?

Was there a time on the police report from the Owen statement? If I remember correctly, He worked Graveyards 12-8am or somewhere in there.
If he left work as the next shift came on, that would put him back at the crime scene talking with LE between 8-9am.
I recall Butterbauch(?) saying in "Zodiac Speaking" 07 documentary that they worked the crime scene until about 4 in the morning.
Has it been verified where Owen gave his statement? Was it at the crime scene or at the Sheriff’s office?
If they had wrapped up the scene at around 4 in the morning or even 6, then the co-worker did not come in at shift change talking about the murder.
Or was Butterbauch wrong?
That’s something that has bugged me for a long time.

Was there a time on the police report from the Owen statement? If I remember correctly, He worked Graveyards 12-8am or somewhere in there.
If he left work as the next shift came on, that would put him back at the crime scene talking with LE between 8-9am.
I recall Butterbauch(?) saying in "Zodiac Speaking" 07 documentary that they worked the crime scene until about 4 in the morning.
Has it been verified where Owen gave his statement? Was it at the crime scene or at the Sheriff’s office?
If they had wrapped up the scene at around 4 in the morning or even 6, then the co-worker did not come in at shift change talking about the murder.
Or was Butterbauch wrong?
That’s something that has bugged me for a long time.

Regarding Owen, though…wasn’t he like 6’3"? That’s way too tall to be Zodiac. I could be mistaken, but I think I read that somewhere. You don’t mistake someone who is 6’3" for 5’8".

Yes he was 6’3. That was the main turnoff for me when I looked at him also. But he did give changing stories and weird statements. I just have always felt there was something wrong with Owen and his statements.
I’m not saying he was Zodiac. I’m saying that I think Owen lied to LE. That he saw Z’s car and knew exactly who drove it and lied to protect him. Family perhaps? A close friend or boss at the refinery?
I feel like he got a better look at the second car than he claimed.

At one time I put up the audio sample of James Owen at Morf’s request, did not see it on this thread but maybe I missed it. Just in case anyone is interested, the file is still up here:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/du5rdfvp … 9.MP3/file

At one time I put up the audio sample of James Owen at Morf’s request, did not see it on this thread but maybe I missed it. Just in case anyone is interested, the file is still up here:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/du5rdfvp … 9.MP3/file

It’s on this thread FWIW. viewtopic.php?f=47&t=66&p=8429#p8429

I know much of this thread has been discussed years ago, so I am a little late to the discussion, but having just listened to the first podcast episode of Zodiac Speaking it got me thinking about the sequence of events again. For me, the discrepancies and oddities don’t seem that strange.

1) A car pulling up next to you late at night, would not necessarily have you immediately looking to run away. Annoying yes, disconcerting, certainly, but they might have just been sitting there for 30 seconds/1 minute thinking “Who is this guy?” and trying to ignore him.

2) The fact that James Owen says that he did not see anyone in either of the cars as he passed by does not necessarily mean that the cars were empty, it just means he did not see anyone. Afterall, he was driving on a dark road, navigating a bend, and not really paying attention to them. I wouldn’t use this as a categorical fact that the cars were indeed empty.

3) Owen changing his story slightly between the first and second interviews in regards to where the cars were positioned and remembering hearing a shot could just be because he had time to recall the events more clearly. I agree that in the immediate aftermath of an event, you are more likely going to remember key details more accurately than months or years later (by which time things get distorted or affected by outside influences), but a day or so after is not unreasonable to remember additional information. One might argue, of course, “Surely he would remember a gunshot and mention that in the first interview”, but perhaps like Marshall said earlier in this thread, his windows might have been up and his radio might have been on; all of this could mask the sound of a .22.

Personally, I always feel that the simplest most mundane explanations make the most sense, even with events happening in seemingly unlikely short spans of time. It’s when one starts to add in ducking/hiding and doors opening and closing to explain the “empty” car, multiple shooters, Owen recognizing the car/killer and covering for someone, that’s when it all starts to go off the rails for me. Of course, all of that is technically possible, but it just seems so much more implausible.

That said, knowing what we know nowadays about certain killers liking to insert themselves into the investigation, and someone like Owen being seconds from the crime taking place and then coming forward the next morning, I do agree that it would have been nice for the police to possibly be a bit more thorough with their checking of his handguns etc. Of course, equally, we cannot blame the guy for being a good citizen/witness and coming forward hours later.