Nor did it necessarily have to be Zodiac’s car. Could be that he borrowed one.

In the transcription of Carol’s chat on TV’s website, Carol seems quite eager to discuss her encounter on same evening as the Kathleen Johns abduction. She brings the topic up early in her chat. It appears she only concluded that it was Zodiac the following day. Here are her words:

…Anyway, I hit my gas and was out of there ! No, I was not a teenager. I was living in Mountain View. Gone over to visit my mother for her birthday. (March 19th) I made that trip many, many times…

There was still activity on the Zodiac and he was in the news. When I got home, I was shaking. Well the news hit the next morning about a guy. My mother lived in Modesto. Sorry, I got off 99 (onto 133) I believe. (Farming country)
Heck, nothing wrong with my tires !…

When the next morning, it talked about Zodiac doing what I just said he did to her. Why would he be in Modesto ? Did he follow me over or what ? Was he watching mother’s house ?…

(Please note that this was taken from Pax1222’s excerpts from the chat transcripts. The transcripts, which you can find in the Paul Stine section of TV’s website, were a bit confusing to follow with the "noise" of different conversations. Pax1222’s excerpts isolated her words only. I believe the extract is reasonally accurate, but I don’t know if anything was missed.)

Anyway, in her own words, she saw the news in the paper about Kathleen Johns the following day. That was apparently when she realized that her would-be assaillant must have been the Zodiac.

As I said earlier, I am inclined to focus on the likelihood that Carol’s story was accurate about the time and location of the encounter. That said, I must make some callouts for the skeptics:
1) She said she was heading home to Mountain View at the time of the encounter. But the transcripts also have her saying that she was living in the city (SF, I presume) at the time of Paul’s murder, and moved to Mountain View two years later.
Clearly, this doesn’t jibe with the time of the KJ abduction. So, confirmation is required to determine where she was living on March 22, 1970. My guess is that she made a typo and meant to say she moved to Mountain View two months prior, but if she was not living in Mountain View at the time, we will know what to believe.
2) She also made some mistakes (per the transcripts) about the which highway the encounter occurred on. She eventually settled on highway 133, rather than 132. It is highly unlikely that it occurred on 133 as that is not in the vicinity. In the Turlock Journal thread, Z-researcher Judith, who had previously interviewed Carol, indicated that Carol had clearly identified Highway 132 as the location. My impression is that the chat was a rather confusing environment (judging by the transcripts–I did not participate) and that she was making some mistakes while trying to stay on track with the discussions. That is just my take, however.
3) Carol (presumably) did not report the matter to the police. Actually, I don’t know whether she did or didn’t. To my knowledge, she did not mention having contacted them, nor did she provide a reason for not having done so. We also don’t know whether she might have mentioned it to any of her police acquaintances. In my opinion, there could be many reasons for such an ommision–it seems questionable, but from my perspective, no firm conclusions can be drawn from it.

Bottom line for me: there are some grounds for questioning Carol Stine’s story, but none of them in any way decisive. The most important question outstanding is, "Did Carol Stine live in Mountain View on 22 March 1970, or did she only move there 2 years later?"

Are there any researchers out there who can help answer that question?

Thanks,

G

It needn’t necessarily have been their own child whom they were taking care of. Could’ve been a young nephew or niece.

Yes, I agree Nachtsider. Just based on anecdotal evidence though I haven’t seen too many males that would carry around children’s toys and clothing in their car, especially if they were single.

Iirc, Morf said the Owens fellow had several (a few?) adopted children and/or foster children.

Bottom line for me: there are some grounds for questioning Carol Stine’s story, but none of them in any way decisive. The most important question outstanding is, "Did Carol Stine live in Mountain View on 22 March 1970, or did she only move there 2 years later?"

Are there any researchers out there who can help answer that question?

Thanks,

G

I have not been able to find exactly where Carol was living March 1970. I have been able to track backwards to 1980 but no further. I do know that she did not have the same last name as she has now. According to her stepfather’s obituary Carol was married and living out of state. He passed away Oct. 10, 1968. Carol did not marry her current husband with who she shares the same last name until April 24, 1976. They were married in Nevada County CA.

If there is going to be any record of Carol’s 1970 address it will be in either her maiden name or her previous married name.

The stepfather’s obit which is from Audra Stine’s scrapbook located at Tom V’s site.

Hi Seagull,

From the obit, it looks as though her maiden name was Painter. I guess she is Paul’s half-sister.

Any idea what year Audra died?

That would least put a cap on the latest possible date this could have happened, given that Carol reported that she was coming back from her mother’s birthday.

Thanks,

G

Oh, sorry, she must have been Carol Hyter, not Carol Painter. Somehow missed that when I first read the obit.

G

Audra Harrison died Nov. 12, 1988

According to her stepfather’s obituary Carol was married and living out of state. He passed away Oct. 10, 1968.

A difficult date for Paul’s mom no doubt. Almost a year to the date her husband dies, her son is murdered.

KJ sat next to Z..KJ’s description of Z is in my mind without a doubt the most accurate..

If…

And if she didn’t actually sit next to Zodiac…

ok i will concede its an if..if it wasnt Z then we have multiple psychotic crazies running around wanting to be serial killers like the Z..i still think it was Z..May be Z was bored and wanted to expand his thrill factor to other areas..truth is i dunno..but i still think KJ sat next to Z

KJ sat next to Z..KJ’s description of Z is in my mind without a doubt the most accurate..

If…

And if she didn’t actually sit next to Zodiac…

ok i will concede its an if..if it wasnt Z then we have multiple psychotic crazies running around wanting to be serial killers like the Z..i still think it was Z..May be Z was bored and wanted to expand his thrill factor to other areas..truth is i dunno..but i still think KJ sat next to Z

It would seem there were many, many psychos running around. So many girls killed. Men too.

We don’t know though if that person’s intent was to kill KJ (I do believe he said he was going to, even though the PD reports don’t mention it) or if he wanted to be a serial killer. Morf put together a nice thread about a lot of these weirdos doing this sort of thing…all over the state of CA.

If he would have said ONE thing that wasn’t in the SF Examiner, etc., I’d be a believer.

If he would have said ONE thing that wasn’t in the SF Examiner, etc., I’d be a believer.

If Ms. John’s attacker said anything that wasn’t in the SF Examiner or in the police reports available to the public, how would we know about it?

I find Johns credible but that’s just me.

Patinky compare the letter to the Examiner article. Do you see anything in the letter that describes what took place the night that Kathleen was abducted that is not in the article?

…
I’m sure I read a report or article before where Carol speaks about the encounter with the driver who was flashing his lights, honking his horn and mouthing something at Carol while pointing at her tyre and in it Carol says she immediately though this could be ‘Him’ (Zodiac) and as he pulled up along side her and the made eye contact, she stuck her tongue out at him and put her foot to the floor and sped away. Very odd thing to do if she instantly questioned if it could be Zodiac. Then again I suppose people react differently when and if they are extremely nervous, some may even do silly things that seem out of place. Maybe she just wanted to try to appear that she was not intimidated by him?

Hi Welch Chappie,

LOL, I am in agreement with your hypothesis. In fact I have made very similar comments on Tom Voigt’s site in the Turlock Journal thread ( http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/reply/1 … ply-134583).

What makes me laugh is the comment about Carol sticking out her tongue at the man in the car. I suspect that was my mischief. Here is what I wrote:

His long awaited opportunity arrives on March 22nd, when Carol, after having spent time visiting and celebrating her mother’s birthday, finally sets out for home. When she pulls out of the driveway, he surreptitiously follows.

So far, all is going swimmingly.

When she reaches Highway 132, he follows for a bit, then speeds up, begins flashing his lights and honking his horn and signalling for her to pull over, indicating there is something is wrong with her car.

In a moment, he will have her.

Of course, that is where his plan crumbles. As if in a scene from the Roadrunner cartoon, she doesn’t fall for his trap. (Maybe it was the "Acme Rentals" sign on his car that made her wary.) Instead she looks out her window at him, sticks her tongue out, yells "Beep, beep!", then promptly floors the accelerator, leaving him to eat her dust.

I suppose you youngsters across the pond may not know who the Road Runner is. Anyway, sorry for the misinformation, but I doubt Carol actually stuck her tongue out.

That said, I very much agree that Carol Stine’s claims–which she recently reiterared in a chat on TV’s site on Oct 11th of this year–do give great credence to the whole KJ abduction, and they shine the matter in a whole new light. This is a chapter in Zodiac history that researchers need to revisit very carefully and with new eyes, because it holds many new answers, imho.

Thanks for your comments, they are well placed

G

Are you accusing us British Subjects of having no knowledge of Road-Runner, that animated one that ran the roads and spoke but two words in each episode of ‘Meep-Meep’? That is assuming your not Brtish yourself and speaking of the American youth not likely knowing who road-runner was? Lol. That how you know when your turning from young man into old moaning twit, I’ve found myself saying such things as "These kids today with their Nintendo Wii’s, play-station 1 2 & 3, laptops with instant internet access and all that! Don’t know they’re born these days! Back when I was that age, we had tetrus, or Alex the Kid on the master system! Yes, rock paper or scissors was about as exciting as it got for computer gaming! And when we had homework we had to use books to look up answers, even visit the library if you wanted to study a specific subject, not these today! No, far too easy they got it. They just log on and Google it! Lol.

Are you accusing us British Subjects of having no knowledge of Road-Runner, that animated one that ran the roads and spoke but two words in each episode of ‘Meep-Meep’? That is assuming your not Brtish yourself and speaking of the American youth not likely knowing who road-runner was? Lol.
…

For any undereducated youngsters on either side of the puddle who don’t know who the heck the Roadrunner is (or his would-be nemesis, Wile E. Coyote), this link can help with your education:

http://youtu.be/ZwyBK0p81Wk

BTW, what do they teach you kids these days?

G

If he would have said ONE thing that wasn’t in the SF Examiner, etc., I’d be a believer.

If Ms. John’s attacker said anything that wasn’t in the SF Examiner or in the police reports available to the public, how would we know about it?

I find Johns credible but that’s just me.

By offering info in his letters like he did prior. Info that was not published in newspapers. (word for word: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=133 )

"To prove this, I shall state some facts which only I and the police know…"

I find KJ credible, and think she believed the man was Zodiac.