Being someone fairly new to this case I have looked up all the major suspects. I honestly haven’t seen anything written that can show me why it can’t be Lawrence Kane. To me looking at all of these suspects freshly, this seems to be the clear Suspect. Outside of the possibility the Riverside activity he seems to be the obvious Candidate for the Zodiac. But I am new to this, can someone answer the question of "Why not Kane?"

Thank so Much

Man after my own heart Craig

I also think he is the most likely of the ‘top’ suspects. I don’t know if you’ve read my website regarding Senior Citizen Kane, but if you haven’t, check it out here: http://wp.me/2ZA7s

Craig the title of this thread you asked "Why not Lawrence Kane?" Well, I have one experience that I have never forgot that maybe will help to answer that question.

About 18 Months back, I went onto Tom site and into his chat room. Tom was there along with 5 or 6 other members and/or guests. I was talking to one member of the room abut Kane and stating why I believe he was and is Zodiac. Another member of the room joined in saying they don’t want to hear about Kane (Which I took to mean that I was giving reasons and evidence to show why Kane is Zodiac and it made that person uncomfortable. A kind of "Truth Hurts") as she believed Z was Gaik (No Surprise there considering the site I was on). But then she said something that sums it up in one sentence as to why most dismiss Kane, she said "I certainly hope Kane isn’t the Zodiac, he’s just too boring!"

And that’s the reason why Kane is overlooked by many because he simply does not fit their mental image of the legendary Zodiac Killer. I mean it’s ironic really that the Zodiac most probably was a loner. I mean if he really were the personality in real life that he appears to have on paper in the letters, one of a braggart with so big an ego that he cant stop talking about his ‘Thing’ in letters to the Editor then surely this mouth piece would have spilled the beans to someone in his personal life. But of course, they haven’t. The Killer in real life was probably nothing like his villainous alter ego ‘Zodiac’. I think the personality he gave to ‘The Zodiac’ was everything he wanted to be but couldn’t/wouldn’t be. He comes across as self assured, confident, confrontational and ruthless in his letters as ‘Zodiac’, yet in the flesh the man himself won’t go anywhere near Bryan Hartell until he is incapacitated and bound. He tries to shoot Mike Mageau in the head and eliminate the male straight away at Blue Rock almost as if he is fearful of Male confrontation and need’s them out of the way ASAP.

When it comes to Kane and how many dismiss him based on personal perception rather than anything evidentiary, I think a quote from James Randi is suitable: "Don’t bother me with things like evidence, my mind is already made up!"

Prints didn’t match.

Well if this were true I’m sure that, just like with Arthur Leigh Allen, it would be documented in the public arena such as the FBI website which shows Arthur Allen’s prints being cross checked and not matching. I assume you can show the same for Kane? I already know that isn’t possible because back in 1991 The Vallejo PD submitted a document to the FBI to ask for Kane’s prints to be compared to Zodiac’s and say Vallejo PD had already sent requests to several Law Enforcement Agencies in the surrounding jurisdictions to ask them to forward Kane prints to them and this seems to have proved fruitless. The FBI Document shows Vallejo PD requesting Kane’s prints be compared, but unlike Art Allen’s Documents, the Documents regarding Kane show no evidence of the FBI carrying out the request comparison and no ‘Result’ document can be found. To the best of my knowledge, his Prints were once compared and the result was inconclusive.

Also Kane has been a suspect for a very long time, since the 1980’s. In all that time no link has ever materialized.

Also Kane has been a suspect for a very long time, since the 1980’s. In all that time no link has ever materialized.

"Kane has been a suspect for a very long time, since the 1980’s" Not according to Vallejo PD he hasn’t. Vallejo PD re-opened their Zodiac investigation in 1991 and state in a Document to the FBI that their reason for doing so is "New suspect has been developed – Lawrence Kane."

" In all that time no link has ever materialized."

Nor has there been with any other suspect, so are they all to be dismissed and excluded also?

You can’t use that as an argument against Kane as possibly being Zodiac because if we exclude him because no definitive link has ever been made between Kane & Zodiac, then we’ll have to do the same about every other suspect also.

And there are links that have been made if you do a bit of research. Yes, the evidence is Circumstantial, but so is every other suspect they have ever developed because if, obviously, they had concrete evidence on a suspect an arrest and charge would be forth-coming.

Vallejo PD stated in a Document to the FBI: Investigation has placed Kane in the locales of where several of the Zodiac victims either Lived, or were killed.
Vallejo PD state in their Document how it’s of interest to them that Zodiac’s ‘My Name Is’ cipher appears to clearly show an anagrammed ‘Name Kane’.
Vallejo PD openly state their reason for petitioning the FBI at this time (1991) is because they have re-opened their Zodiac Investigation due to New suspect being developed, that being Kane.
Five Days after The Blue Rock Springs double murder in which one of his victims, Mike Mageau, survived and could now possibly give police the make, model, colour etc of the shooter’s car, Larry Kane traded his Vehicle in.

There are many many more ‘coincidences’ I could recount but there all at my webpage if anyone cares to look: http://wp.me/2ZA7s

There are many many more ‘coincidences’ I could recount but there all at my webpage if anyone cares to look: http://wp.me/2ZA7s

Nice site. Lots of interesting info there. A couple things that I noticed that seem to be at odds with each other….

Disinhibition brought on from brain injury

vs

-1968 through 1979, Kane seemed to clean up his act, with no arrests during this period (If he were The Zodiac, this is something you might expect, he wouldn’t want to draw attention to himself for minor offences like theft or prowling that may lead to him being discovered as Zodiac)

Which is it? Can he control himself or not? See what I mean?

It’s somewhat trivial, but bothers me some. Anyway, I think of Kane as a legit suspect.

WC – I’ll check your link, but in the mean time here are a couple of quick not so deep thoughts.

1. The one conisistant attribute that seems to run through every witness is the "round face." This attribute must be very prominet
for it to stick out in so many witnesses memory. The list is quite extensive of those who have witnessed to this. So, this small observation in my opinion includes two individuals… Allen and Kane. Of course we know there is much more to nailing down a suspect then this but I do think that this is something that cannot be ignored. I have many, many reasons why I think Kane is the guy, but this one thing always sticks in my brain. Your thoughts?

2. When I asked the question "why not Lawrence Kane?" I was hoping to hear something fairly concrete like ‘he couldn’t physically have been in this or that area to have committed one of the known murders’ or something similar, but Im not sure that happened, at least it didn’t satisfy my curiosity.

I’ll check out the link now.

WC – I’ll check your link, but in the mean time here are a couple of quick not so deep thoughts.

1. The one conisistant attribute that seems to run through every witness is the "round face." This attribute must be very prominet
for it to stick out in so many witnesses memory. The list is quite extensive of those who have witnessed to this. So, this small observation in my opinion includes two individuals… Allen and Kane. Of course we know there is much more to nailing down a suspect then this but I do think that this is something that cannot be ignored. I have many, many reasons why I think Kane is the guy, but this one thing always sticks in my brain. Your thoughts?

Sorry just my thoughts, or questions.

The round face thing bugs me. Craig you are quite right, it does ‘run’ through this case but what is it’s course? It started with MM after the BRS attack. When I started I remember holding that ‘impression’ in my own head, I mean MM was right there, face to face with the guy, albeit being shot and with a flashlight in his face. No on else has been that close to him without a mask and lived to tell the tale.

Yet all we have is a vague shape description. I wonder why no composite was ever created in this crime. ‘Only glimpsed in profile’ perhaps? No offence to MM but everyone’s head is larger in profile.

Yet skip ahead to PH where a composite was created, from several sources, yes the primary witnesses but it wasn’t dismissed by Fouke as being inaccurate. So that’s different sources, at the time, not being shot at and not having lights in their eyes, and not one mention of a round or large face and the composite doesn’t reflect that either. Yet still that idea persists.

So, we have Berryessa, no face but a description from Bryan Hartnell of Z’s stomach hanging over his belt. That for me suggests the guy was chubby and so a round face would make sense. My concern is that despite Bryan being very observant, I’m not sure we have enough information to decide what that actually translates to. Everyone hangs over their belt to some degree and it’s not just body fat that causes that. There’s body shape and position. So what Bryan saw might well be ‘blubber’ but then someone I think did state that it wasn’t blubbery fat and that he might have been muscular. Basically we all have body fat and different shaped bodies so I can’t be entirely confident in my own thoughts concerning that statement.

Then we have KJ identifying her abductor from the Stine composite.

That’s all well and good because we ourselves have never seen the guy (that we are 100% sure of lol) but I would say that there’s more evidence to suggest a non-round face than a round one. If I had to pick a shape that, for me, would sit comfortably with Z’s various descriptions it would be square and not round. Sure, maybe some rounded edges but overall this guy was stocky, maybe muscular, heavy etc etc.

I can’t discount MM’s description of ‘large’ though. Consider the Berryessa composite but not even that, the statements from the 3 girls. "Thin lips, medium nose, small ears, well built, nice looking?". Now the composite that we associate with those descriptions does reflect, in some way the descriptions, it also fits in with MM’s ‘large face comment’. Hairline and perceived age doesn’t do it for me though. What does is, that the characteristics of the face in that composite ‘fit’ for me in translation in my own head to the Stine composite.

The Berryessa composite, to me shows a square face that fits with my idea of ‘stocky’, It’s not a hard square though. Still square though. Even the Stine composite was amended to "square off the jaw".

So…round? nah doesn’t do it for me. Overweight, stocky build, large face yeah I could live with those. Thanks Craig for some food for thought. Doesn’t mean I’m right, just pondering out loud.

As for ‘Why not Kane’

Well that’s the problem with POI’s. The ‘why not’. Sometimes there isn’t one but then that’s the case for all of them. There isn’t anything solid that rules them out, heck, if the real Z was ever caught there might not even be anything solid to charge him with unless he ‘fessed up and co-operated.

Our POI’s are picked for different reasons, for different people. Mostly it boils down to common sense, even feeling sometimes. Those can be wrong however, very wrong and as such it’s pretty much, never say never. If we could say never to any POI with certainty then that would be a good thing. One off the list. It’s tricky though to separate the passion from the task because we all need something to ‘spur’ us on and for some (myself included), Little moments of discovery, excitement, what if’s, striking coincidences etc. Unfortunately that takes us a little bit further from reality at every turn. And then we reset, back to the core facts and go again.

Kane well may have his time in spotlight again so maybe the more appropriate question should be "Why not Kane now?"

The Berryessa composite, to me shows a square face that fits with my idea of ‘stocky’, It’s not a hard square though. Still square though. Even the Stine composite was amended to "square off the jaw".

Thank you for your perspective.

The girls who helped to produce the sketch at LB described the man to investigators as a white male, between 28-30 years of age, with dark hair that was parted on the left side, at least six feet tall, stocky build, approx. 200 to 225 lbs., with a round face, rounded eyes, thin lips, a medium nose, straight eyebrows and small ears.

Michael Mageau I believe used the words "large face." For some reason that stuck out as something to remember.

is it an iron clad clue..no. But I do believe we are looking for a heavy set (not fat) person which would include a heavy looking face. With those simple guidelines it eliminates many suspects. Sorry, if I seem too matter of fact.

Why Not Kane? OK I will give my answer.

Kane looks nothing like the SF Zodiac sketch. Descriptions differ and weight is hard to guess and it is easy to look heavier. But both Mageau and Johns said Z was 160 pounds and 25 to 30 years old. There is nothing at all to indicate that Kane had a strong interest in or knowledge of either code making or bomb designing. Or opera or Norse. Or letter writing to newspapers. In his other criminal activites he seems incompetent and unintelligent and got caught. A radioman in the Navy sends coded messages from a book. He does not make and create new codes. And the handwriting is not a match.

Mageau says 160 pounds in this article, and 25 to 30 years old. But lets face it, he saw the guy for seconds in the dark, was shot, had his life fall apart and he has since been all over the map in re descriptions.

Probable victim Kathleen Johns also gave Zodiac’s weight as 160 pounds and 30 years old, and she sat close to him in a car, for several minutes.

Fouke said in his DVD interview that Allen was "100 pounds" heavier than the man he saw that night. The heaviest weight for Allen I have seen was 250 pounds.

The SF Zodiac sketch has no fat in the face at all. It appears to show a lean man of about 160 pounds or so. Certainly not a heavy or fat man, which raises the possibility that Zodiac used a method like putting a towel under his shirt and wearing two jackets to make himself look heavier in body (as Ted K did).

The SF Z sketch does not match Kane at all. Kane has Sephardic Jewish looks with black wavy hair, bushy black eyebrows, prominent nose, chubby face, double chins. IMO absolutely nothing at all like the SF sketch. Also going by Mageau and Johns 25 to 30, and other evidence, I think Z was around 27 to 32, and Kane was 45 in 1969. The handwriting is an absolute non-match, and IMO so is the physical appearance, face, hair, weight and age.

There are many many more ‘coincidences’ I could recount but there all at my webpage if anyone cares to look: http://wp.me/2ZA7s

Nice site. Lots of interesting info there. A couple things that I noticed that seem to be at odds with each other….

Disinhibition brought on from brain injury

vs

-1968 through 1979, Kane seemed to clean up his act, with no arrests during this period (If he were The Zodiac, this is something you might expect, he wouldn’t want to draw attention to himself for minor offences like theft or prowling that may lead to him being discovered as Zodiac)

Which is it? Can he control himself or not? See what I mean?

It’s somewhat trivial, but bothers me some. Anyway, I think of Kane as a legit suspect.

"1968 through 1979, Kane seemed to clean up his act" – Key word there being ‘seemed’. The comment above is not intended to imply that Kane’s lack of arrests during the 70’s means he was not committing offences. The point I was making is if Kane did stop prowling and his other less serious crimes then I don’t think, nor did I intend to convey, that he stopped because he suddenly found the ability to curb his impulsive desires, it would more likely be the result of his graduating from prowling to something more serious in nature and it this new criminal activity served to gratify him far more than prowling ever would. So the point I was making was he simply wouldn’t feel the need to commit other petty offences now because he gets maximum satisfaction from doing his new thing. Was Kane totally impulsive, unable to control himself no matter what the circumstances? No way of knowing to what extent he was impulsive.

I also don’t think Zodiac planned any of his attacks to any great degree and I am not just saying this because I want to make it fit Kane but saying it because unless Z knew his victims, they were all crimes of opportunity it seems where you cant know in advance if a victim will be in a certain location to attack them. He just happened across them.

Lake Herman: Z seems to be patrolling the lovers lanes and happens across Dave & Betty. You can’t realistically plan ahead to shoot a couple in the gated entrance to a pumping station because you have no way of knowing whether any victims will present themselves for him to kill them. Assuming Z did not know David & Betty, he just happened across them and the crime was spontaneous and opportunistic.

Lake Berryessa is the same. Here several witnesses report seeing a White Male, stocky and dark hair hanging around Lake Berryessa for hours before Bryan and Cecelia were attacked. He can plan to murder at Lake B all he wants, no guarantee’s that a victim will be where he want’s or hope’s to strike. That’s probably why, if it was Z the witnesses saw hanging around the area for a lengthy time prior to Bryan & Cecelia’s attack, he had to spend ages waiting around and searching at Lake Berryessa because he was there with the motive of murdering a couple, he just didn’t, and couldn’t know, who they would be and at what time.

Paul Stine. This victim (or occupation of) and the crime may have had a degree of planning to it but if it did I would say it’s only because of his experience two weeks prior and the frustration of having to wait around so long at Lake Berryessa for suitable victims in a suitable place for hours on end to show up. He may have decided he isn’t hanging around an area waiting again for goddess know how long for the opportunity to kill to present itself and that this time he’ll know in advance that the victim will be a cab driver and the appointed location of the crime will be Presidio Heights. So many advantages to a cab driver as a victim because from Z’s perspective he can choose anywhere in San Francisco to carry out the murder because a Cab Driver will take you wherever you tell him to.
So planning? Not for me. His crimes and the victims appear, at face value anyway, to be opportunistic ones where he just happened across a couple on Lake Herman and Blue Rock springs and, who knows, very possibly acted on impulse when stopping to murder three and madly wound a fourth.

And if Zodiac did plan the murder of Paul Stine, to say he didn’t do it very well is an understatement. If he planned this crime in detail then you have to accept that the following happened:

Plans the crime and knows his victim will be a cabbie and the scene of his execution will be Washington & Maple, before he himself disappears into the Julius Kahn Park and the General grounds of the Presidio. We can assume he has scoped the area out to the range of a block or two in advance if he’s planned this crime in advance. Then it’s almost time for him to carry out his planned sinister assault.

After such flawless and brilliant planning on Zodiac’s part, he straight away ends up at the wrong location. Again, planning to execute someone on a street corner is virtually impossible because you can’t know who will be in that area at the given time. Apparently, Zodiac didn’t realise this little obstacle in his preparation stage and so ends up at Cherry st instead. So Zodiac murders the driver at the wrong designated intersection and is one block further than intended in his plan. But anyway, he shoots Paul, wipes down the cab, helps himself to Paul’s belongings and walks away down Cherry to the Presidio. Zodiac, who’s planned this crime and scoped out the area, walks to the summit of Cherry St and completely ignores the entrance onto West Pacific Avenue and the Presidio rite there across the road, preferring instead to turn right onto Jackson St, descend the side walk under street lights and house after house and vastly increasing the risk of his own capture as he walks straight into the beams of Don & Erics Prowl Car. I just cannot accept that the Zodiac was heading for the Presidio Grounds that night and that he was either not aware of the Cherry Entrance to the Presidio, or that he simply completely ignored it wanting to stay where everyone can see and even detain him.

Below: Yellow line showing Zodiac’s escape route, red line shows ignored Presidio Entrance.

The SF Z sketch does not match Kane at all

"At all" I’m not buying that. So often we treat the SF sketch as if it’s a photograph.

Also, I am having a hard time coming to terms with why the sketch in SF doesn’t seem to match the witnesses from the other murders. Was he in disguise like he said or was the Stine Murderer someone different all together.

The SF Z sketch does not match Kane at all

"At all" I’m not buying that. So often we treat the SF sketch as if it’s a photograph.

Also, I am having a hard time coming to terms with why the sketch in SF doesn’t seem to match the witnesses from the other murders. Was he in disguise like he said or was the Stine Murderer someone different all together.

The SF sketch doesn’t match witnesses from the other murders? What other murders?

IMO the SF sketch is generally consistent with the Mageau and Johns description of 160 pounds, shorthair, 25-30 years old. There were no living witnesses from LHR and Z wore a mask at LB. So what other witnesses are you talking about? The teen girls at LB? We don’t know for sure if the man they saw was Zodiac.

Equally important IMO is that Kane matches none of the obsessions, interests and skills of Z, such as code making, bomb designing, opera, Norse, letter writing to newspapers. And Kane was seemingly incompetent, unintelligent and easily caught in his other crimes.

The SF Z sketch does not match Kane at all

"At all" I’m not buying that. So often we treat the SF sketch as if it’s a photograph.

Also, I am having a hard time coming to terms with why the sketch in SF doesn’t seem to match the witnesses from the other murders. Was he in disguise like he said or was the Stine Murderer someone different all together.

AK WILKS: "The SF sketch doesn’t match witnesses from the other murders? What other murders?

IMO the SF sketch is generally consistent with the Mageau and Johns description of 160 pounds, shorthair, 25-30 years old. There were no living witnesses from LHR and Z wore a mask at LB. So what other witnesses are you talking about? The teen girls at LB? We don’t know for sure if the man they saw was Zodiac.

Equally important IMO is that Kane matches none of the obsessions, interests and skills of Z, such as code making, bomb designing, opera, Norse, letter writing to newspapers. And Kane was seemingly incompetent, unintelligent and easily caught in his other crimes."

CRAIGFITZER: I’m not sure what case you’re speaking of if you think that SF sketch remotely matches this description. I would point out the differences but I think the article makes my point quite clear.

And finally, on the age thing; "The suspect observed by officer Fouke was a WMA 35-45 Yrs about five-foot, ten inches, 180-200 pounds."

Looking at your clipping and the description given by Mageau in it, I’m not sure what case you are speaking of if you think Kane’s black hair is "light brown, almost blonde"! Or that the 45 year old Kane would appear as Mageau says at the very bottom of your clipping 26 – 30 years old!

And Kane is "blubbery fat" exactly what Mageau said he was not.

Mageau says 160 pounds in this article, and 25 to 30 years old. But lets face it, he saw the guy for seconds in the dark, was shot, had his life fall apart and he has since been all over the map in re descriptions. Witness descriptions in general can be unreliable. I do give some weight to the SF sketch because it was based on multiple witnesses. How good a view they had can be debated. How good a view Mageau had, for how long, in what light, and what effect being shot in the head had, can also be debated.

Probable victim Kathleen Johns also gave Zodiac’s weight as 160 pounds and 30 years old, and she sat close to him in a car, for several minutes.

Fouke said in his DVD interview that Allen was "100 pounds" heavier than the man he saw that night. The heaviest weight for Allen I have seen was 250 pounds.

Any response to my other points about the complete non-match to intellect, interests and abilities? Equally important IMO is that Kane matches none of the obsessions, interests and skills of Z, such as code making, bomb designing, opera, Norse, letter writing to newspapers. And Kane was seemingly incompetent, unintelligent and easily caught in his other crimes.