I think there is just a disconnect for some folks when they look at a criminal mastermind who managed to get arrested as a peeping Tom yet later supposedly murdered a handful of people and managed to elude police for decades. Toss in the glaring lack of similarities in the physical appearance and interests that don’t match up and it becomes a bit of a stretch.

Anything is possible, of course, and really the whole peeping thing puts me off him as Z more for the fact that imo it doesn’t match his psychological makeup. Z killed for the thrill and possibly (if Bates is his) because he hated women for how they treated him as a teenager and young adult. That may have been a subconscious thing for him, a hatred that he didn’t realize was there until Bates laughed at him and he snapped. Hell, he may not have even planned to kill her and was simply trying to get a few minutes of her time. Anyway, my point being that Kane seems like some poor socially awkward schmuck who was more interested in watching women he couldn’t have than anything else.

Otherwise, my quibble with Kane has nothing to do with him not being interesting enough. I honestly figure that Z was of moderate but not terribly above average intelligence. A loner, probably had social anxiety, awkward around the opposite sex, a liar and a coward as the Chief noted, and I suspect the fact he only killed for notoriety and the adrenaline rush is why he was able to simply stop after a staggeringly close shave with the law. Self preservation above all, even his desire for attention.

I imagine he went to great lengths to appear more interesting than he really was. I’m not sure he had more than a passing interest in opera (certainly not a buff or he wouldn’t have riffed on the Mikado) or any of the other topics he touched on lightly. Ciphers were another deal entirely, though. They were probably his passion, something he was confident enough in to put on display for the public. I think if you can’t link Kane to any manner of deep cipher interest then he’s likely not the guy.

I mean, apart from the fact that you take one look at Kane and he looks overweight. Not heavyset, not stocky, nor "big boned". Fat. One brief glance and that is all I could tell you about him. Well, other than his extremely curly hair, a nose that would eclipse the sun and a smile that would frighten small children (and some adults, truth be told). That we don’t have witness statements remarking on his nose is a huge red flag to me.

Anyway, this is me just ruminating. I don’t know half as much as most of you about the case. Rather, these are just my general feelings as a casual observer.

And WC just to clarify something. I was not directly accusing you of picking and choosing evidence. I was responding to a specific post by craigfizter, wherein he relied upon Mageau’s statement to police. But after noting that Kane had black hair, he ignored (or benefit of the doubt) maybe missed the part of that exact same police report where Mageau said the man who shot him had hair that was "light brown, almost blonde".

AK, my wife has always accused me of skimming when I read. Sorry I didn’t address the above question. As I am sure you can agree Mageau’s statements are all over the place, which is understandable. I’m not sure I would classify my comments as "relying" on Mageau’s statement but I believe there are certain parts of his testimony that are consistent with other witnesses. So, I think that those statements can be more trusted. Just a thought.

I think that WC has done a very good job of covering this but, my point in all of this is that, this particular suspect can’t be disproven in any solid fact way, such as; "Kane was in Texas when the Lake Herman road murders happened." or "He was with so and so that night he couldn’t have been in two places at once." I am certainly not saying that that makes him a great suspect in itself. In my non-partial look at the case and looking into many of the suspects, to me he seems like the best suspect. But, if he could be solidly eliminated then I’d move on. In my opinion that hasn’t happened.

AK:
"And WC just to clarify something. I was not directly accusing you of picking and choosing evidence. I was responding to a specific post by craigfizter, wherein he relied upon Mageau’s statement to police."

Ok, then I apologise.

"But after noting that Kane had black hair, he ignored (or benefit of the doubt) maybe missed the part of that exact same police report where Mageau said the man who shot him had hair that was "light brown, almost blonde".

Mageau also said Dee called the man ‘Richard’, this was after he’d picked out Arthur Allen in a line up as the man who shot him, the very bald headed Arthur Allen. Mike said himself he only saw the shooter from a ‘profile’ view point, meaning side on not from the front. This was after he’d been shot several times, once in the face and seconds after he’s had what he describes as a blinding light flashed straight into his eyes. Couple that with this area being dark with no lighting and I think Mike’s testimony is unreliable. I am not picking and choosing what to ignore by doing this but am calling Mike’s testimony into question based on facts relating to things we know he himself has said. Also, Mike said ‘light brown, almost blonde’ but Hartnell, who has never once changed his story and is, in my opinion, the most reliable of all the witnesses, said the man’s hair that he could see through the hood was dark brown.

I echo what Craig said in his last post, it’s something I myself have said before and that is that Kane cannot be ruled out conclusively by any means and Craig gives two examples of this. In regards to me mentioning agenda’s, I don’t mean that all others won’t consider Kane because they have agendas (Although some clearly do: Authoring Books, Consulting on documentaries etc), I mean to say that I personally have no agenda and, as Craig alluded to, have arrived at my opinion that Kane is by far the best suspect after considering all the known suspects.

Craig the title of this thread you asked "Why not Lawrence Kane?" Well, I have one experience that I have never forgot that maybe will help to answer that question.

About 18 Months back, I went onto Tom site and into his chat room. Tom was there along with 5 or 6 other members and/or guests. I was talking to one member of the room abut Kane and stating why I believe he was and is Zodiac. Another member of the room joined in saying they don’t want to hear about Kane (Which I took to mean that I was giving reasons and evidence to show why Kane is Zodiac and it made that person uncomfortable. A kind of "Truth Hurts") as she believed Z was Gaik (No Surprise there considering the site I was on). But then she said something that sums it up in one sentence as to why most dismiss Kane, she said "I certainly hope Kane isn’t the Zodiac, he’s just too boring!"

And that’s the reason why Kane is overlooked by many because he simply does not fit their mental image of the legendary Zodiac Killer. I mean it’s ironic really that the Zodiac most probably was a loner. I mean if he really were the personality in real life that he appears to have on paper in the letters, one of a braggart with so big an ego that he cant stop talking about his ‘Thing’ in letters to the Editor then surely this mouth piece would have spilled the beans to someone in his personal life. But of course, they haven’t. The Killer in real life was probably nothing like his villainous alter ego ‘Zodiac’. I think the personality he gave to ‘The Zodiac’ was everything he wanted to be but couldn’t/wouldn’t be. He comes across as self assured, confident, confrontational and ruthless in his letters as ‘Zodiac’, yet in the flesh the man himself won’t go anywhere near Bryan Hartell until he is incapacitated and bound. He tries to shoot Mike Mageau in the head and eliminate the male straight away at Blue Rock almost as if he is fearful of Male confrontation and need’s them out of the way ASAP.

When it comes to Kane and how many dismiss him based on personal perception rather than anything evidentiary, I think a quote from James Randi is suitable: "Don’t bother me with things like evidence, my mind is already made up!"

Very well summed up. I have always liked Kane, but agree that he is a "boring" POI/suspect. It’s perfect. Let the police look for a loud mouth who likes to brag, and overlook the quiet people.

Someone mentioned that Kane’s prints don’t match. I don’t put much stock into the prints or DNA. It’s hard to say if there were ever any "real" prints and/or DNA pulled/collected. DNA especially. How do they know it is that of the Zodiac? Handwriting is more of a higher priority I would think. The letters written had information that nobody could know besides the killer or killer’s accomplice, if he had one. If Z had an accomplice writing the letters, who was that person? A very smart person who left hints from all sorts of influences. A smart person who knew how to disguise hand writing. So the "dumb brut" is the killer and the "brains of the operation" is the man behind the pen? Kane is said to have possibly known some of the other POIs/suspects. I don’t rule this out one bit. And I say this because of Kane’s handwriting (what we have seen of it) is far off. Personally, I have always thought that a Kane/Manalli partnership was intriguing. If I absolutely had to pick who I thought the Zodiac was, I would probably lean towards Kane.

I’ve heard some claim Kane’s prints don’t match also but I’ve yet to see proof from anyone who claims this. As I said, Arthur Allen’s FBI documents show the FBI being asked to compare his prints, followed by a document showing the results of the comparison. Kane’s document shows Vallejo PD asking for Kane’s prints and saying they have asked other LE agencies if they can supply Kane’s prints but seem to have had no success so they then ask the FBI. Unlike Arthur Allen’s FBI documents showing the request followed by the results, Kane only has a document showing they asked for the prints (if the FBI had them) but no follow up document with any results.

I’ve heard some claim Kane’s prints don’t match also but I’ve yet to see proof from anyone who claims this. As I said, Arthur Allen’s FBI documents show the FBI being asked to compare his prints, followed by a document showing the results of the comparison. Kane’s document shows Vallejo PD asking for Kane’s prints and saying they have asked other LE agencies if they can supply Kane’s prints but seem to have had no success so they then ask the FBI. Unlike Arthur Allen’s FBI documents showing the request followed by the results, Kane only has a document showing they asked for the prints (if the FBI had them) but no follow up document with any results.

That could explain the theory of Kane possibly being an FBI informant. Or the possibility that Zodiac had "police protection."

I’ve heard some claim Kane’s prints don’t match also but I’ve yet to see proof from anyone who claims this. As I said, Arthur Allen’s FBI documents show the FBI being asked to compare his prints, followed by a document showing the results of the comparison. Kane’s document shows Vallejo PD asking for Kane’s prints and saying they have asked other LE agencies if they can supply Kane’s prints but seem to have had no success so they then ask the FBI. Unlike Arthur Allen’s FBI documents showing the request followed by the results, Kane only has a document showing they asked for the prints (if the FBI had them) but no follow up document with any results.

That could explain the theory of Kane possibly being an FBI informant. Or the possibility that Zodiac had "police protection."

That’s my thought’s exactly. That would explain a lot about Kane. It would explain his moving around from place to place, it would explain how and why he had several ID’s and aliases, it would explain how Kane managed to reside in the Bay Area as Kane, even getting arrested in San Mateo as "Lawrence Kane" and then be buried as Lawrence Cane.

It also seems rather odd how, when Larry leaves San Fran for Lake Tahoe, he immediately get’s a job working for a certain Alan Dorfman, Dorfman being a mafia associate that the FBI had been trying to bring down for a multi million dollar fraud for years. Kane would either have to be connected to the Mafia himself to be given such a position close to Dorfman, or would need friends in high places that had the ability to get him placed there.

Keep in mind there were multiple sides to Dorfman. He was a big official in the Teamsters Union, he played golf with President Nixon. He had legitimate business and real estate investments. He was also very connected to the mafia. So Kane may have dealt with him totally on the legit side, or not. We don’t know. I don’t see any reason to think Kane was mob connected or a police informant. Though both ideas are worth exploring through FOIA requests or other means.

I talked to a police forensics man, and I asked him "Did any of the main named suspects – Allen, Marshall, Kane, Gaikowski, Kaczynski – ever match partially or in anyway to the cab prints or other possible Zodiac prints?" He said "No, but we don’t know if any real Zodiac prints are on file, and I personally would not rule out an otherwise good suspect solely on the basis of a non-match to prints".

That was Paul Holes who told me that, he is Crime Lab Chief for the Contra Costa County Sheriff Dept, which does forensics on a contractual basis for Vallejo.

Keep in mind there were multiple sides to Dorfman. He was a big official in the Teamsters Union, he played golf with President Nixon. He had legitimate business and real estate investments. He was also very connected to the mafia. So Kane may have dealt with him totally on the legit side, or not. We don’t know. I don’t see any reason to think Kane was mob connected or a police informant. Though both ideas are worth exploring through FOIA requests or other means.

I talked to a police forensics man, and I asked him "Did any of the main named suspects – Allen, Marshall, Kane, Gaikowski, Kaczynski – ever match partially or in anyway to the cab prints or other possible Zodiac prints?" He said "No, but we don’t know if any real Zodiac prints are on file, and I personally would not rule out an otherwise good suspect solely on the basis of a non-match to prints".

That was Paul Holes who told me that, he is Crime Lab Chief for the Contra Costa County Sheriff Dept, which does forensics on a contractual basis for Vallejo.

I would agree with him, I would go further and say it would be unwise to rules a suspect out based on a print found on the Zodiac letter, such as the palm print. I mean I would imagine most would assume the palm print to belong to the hand of Zodiac, but to rule someone out based on a non-match? Premature in my opinion.

And AK I wasn’t claiming that I personally am convinced that Kane was connected to The Mafia or that he was an FBI Informant, I was just making the point that these two explanations would account for his numerous identities, never staying in one place for an extened period, not having any relatives connected to him, him himself being extremely difficult to find and pin down to a certain location at a certain time. And the FOIA’s AK, I’ve tried all his known names, Kane, Klein, Cane, and all got the same response…."We conducted a search of our central records system and based on the information you supplied we were unable to identify main file records responsive to your request."

How do we know Kane actually worked for Dorfman? Asking genuinely.

How do we know Kane actually worked for Dorfman? Asking genuinely.

Well T I don’t own copies of his tax returns to prove it but I look at it like this:

Harvey Hines put’s together a list of circumstantial reasons and evidence why Kane is good for Z. He attempts to get his superiors to look at this list of 75 ‘coincidences’ one of which is the fact that Donna Lass and Larry Kane worked in the same building. Now if Harvey Hines is lying, then the second someone takes his report and follows up on it, he’s going to look ridiculously stupid when his superior comes back and tells him Larry Kane does not, and never has, work there.
Hine’s also went on national TV and stated, quote: "I went to Tahoe, and I questioned the people who had worked with Donna Lass and asked them if there was anyone they could remember that was odd, or different from the rest of the employees? Without exception, they named Larry Kane."

Again, if the implication is Hines may have simply said this to kick Kane up the proverbial suspect ladder when there was no truth to it, then anyone following up who did speak to Donna’s Co-Workers would immediately discover Hines to be a liar, at which point he looses any and all credibility. Absolutely not at all a logical thing for Hines to do IMO.

I was under the assumption that FBI had Kane’s ACTUAL prints on file, but I’m reading through reports and posts and can’t get this confirmed. In fact I’m getting the impression they don’t. I’m sure it must be here somewhere. Could someone point out to me where I’d find this information. He was never arrested so I just assumed they had prints that didn’t match prints found in stine’s cab.

Whoever said Kane was boring has not read much about him. He is anything but.

I’ve been thinking about the limp/ shuffling gate that both Hartnell and the Stine witnesses mentioned. Anyone know if Kane had a limp? I know he suffered from a brain injury. Could his particular brain injury have an effect on his coordination? Did Mageau ever mention anything about the way his shooter walked? I think his gate would be a dead giveaway. None of the POIs or suspects that have been discussed to my knowledge have injuries to their legs.. it could be possible that he had to get drunk to do his thing I guess. That could explain it too, but I’m doubtful.

Joe, you can view everything you need to know regarding Mr Kane, sometimes known as Klein, who is buried as Cane with two SSI No at my website here:

http://wp.me/2ZA7s

I’ve researched Citizen Kane extensively and I strongly believe Kane was involved in one of two opposite groups. He’s either an FBI informant that is able to get very useful info for the Feds, or, He’s actually associated with the Mob (even of it was just the fringe elements of the Mafia).

The reason I think or suspect he was an informant and was under some sort of witness protection programme is because he never stayed in one place for any length of time and moved around all the time and when he did, he seemed to have a new identity. He was residing in San Fran as Kane, as the mug shot from Redwood City shows inmate ‘KANE.’

He leaves San Fran and relocated to NV, and now he’s officially ‘Cane’

The Vallejo PD, back in 1991, re-opened the Zodiac case because of Kane and asked the FBI for his prints. They seemed to have ignored this request. Vallejo PD also stated in their Document they submitted to the FBI that ‘Kane was found in possession of a forged drivers licence, a federal offence, Vallejo PD plan to arrest Kane in order to obtain his prints if the FBI doesn’t have them on file.

And then Kane dropped off the face of the Earth again, and no arrest was made, nor prints obtained.