Hi-

Where is the "moon face" that Mageau described when Z goes to PH? The Stine eyewitnesses said they carefully studied the man. Fouke was a trained observer. Nobody said that the man they saw that night had a big, "round face" like Mageau did.

One of the Stine eyewitnesses knew KQ from the early 1970s on. He did not bristle one bit when Jim brought up KQ’s name in 2003. He didn’t say, "No way it was him; he was way too thin to be the guy I saw, etc." All he rambled on about is that he never knew KQ wore glasses..because he never saw him with them on. By the early 1970s KQ had lost the glasses, grown sideburns and let his hair grow out.

Mike

That leads me to believe that the glasses was the principle feature that stuck with him, but not necessarily the facial features. If I take off my glasses and grow my hair out 4 inches, I don’t look dramatically different. But at 50 feet, I would be unrecognizable if your ID was based solely on glasses and a haircut.

Fouke and the eyewitnesses who saw him walk away from Stine’s cab mention nothing about a round face. The sketch is not a round face. Not gaunt but certainly not round

Even Fouke stressed that Zodiac’s jaw was full and rounded.

That sketch was the work of the kids’ statements alone, and I strongly feel that they got the jaw wrong.

This would be a more accurate likeness (see below). It can pass for BOTH the Napa and SF composites.

That kinda looks like Don Cheney.

I hate to say it, but it would explain a lot of the inconsistencies, and not just with the descriptions of him, but also the discrepancies in MO, the fact that none of the 35 or so fingerprints match each other, different guns, cars, etc.

So, most of the prints are partials, so you would need the same portion of the same finger for a match. Different guns is not really an issue. Do we even have one car tied to any murder? Not that I am aware of.

And having two people involved, one killing and a second communicating in letters, is highly beneficial to a killers cause and helps tremendously in avoiding prosecution because let’s say they did come across a writing style and all experts agreed that there is no doubt that John Doe’s letters here and the Zodiac Killers letters there are authored by the same man and this is without question. How can you prosecute that person as The Zodiac Killer? You cant simply because he isn’t, he can no doubt have evidence that when Zodiac killed Betty and Dave at LHR, he can show proof positive he wasn’t even in California, for example. Then when he’s paraded in front of the Pacific Heights witnesses for a ID parade the teens will obviously be unable to positively identify John Doe as the man they saw and the reason they cant is because he’s not the man they saw at the cab who took Pauls life, He’s only the Zodiac Author, not the Zodiac Killer.

I disagree. The letters are largely irrelevant to the murders. The letters were not a crime. You wouldn’t get to reasonable doubt because you can’t prove that a suspect wrote the letters. If you can tie the person to a crime scene, you likely get a conviction. For PS, if all 3 Robbins kids ID Qvale in 2003 and the fingerprints left on the cab match Qvale, he gets convicted. That case would be closed even if you can’t prove Qvale wrote one letter. You could not charge him with the other murders without specific evidence of those crimes, but you would have to charge and prove all four murder scenes individually.

I find it strange how Kjell threatened litigation against anyone who used his name in association with anything to do with The Zodiac case. I mean seeing that he himself is fairly well known, interviewed for car magazine’s and racing magazines and even the chronicle many time, I would probably expect one journalist to ask Kjell "Back in 69, the notorious Zodiac Killer struck oneb block away from your house on Jackson and was supposedly last seen about 3 or 4 houses up from your own residence, did that worry or scare you considering you have a wife and children?"
Nothing. I bet an interviewer has asked something similar and they found out quickly ask any questions relating to Zodiac, and interview is over.

Shell KA-VAH-LEE his name is pronounced, kind of like, ooo I don’t know, A-VER-LY.

Zodiac didn’t break into homes like BTK or EARONS, so why would that concern him? Conceivably, anyone in SF could have encountered Zodiac on any given day by virtue of going out into public.

I mean you read any obituary about Kjell and the writer will almost always remind the reader just what a wonderful, thoughtful, kind and giving man Mr Qvale was. Always willing to help with anything if asked because he was, lets remember, a deeply thoughtful man who’s just an all round genuinely wonderful soul… Untill you ask him about Zodiac, then he’ll leave you having to sell your home to pay him compensation.

You dare to ask him to live up to that standard of brilliance and kindness in simply helping to answer a Zodiac related question and he’ll sue you until litigation is coming out of your ears! Why such a determined effort to distance oneself from anything Zodiac if your an innocent bystander? I mean I don’t care if your the richest man in the United States or a bum asking for a Dollar in some alley, if you are in the vicinity of a horrific murder and you are, as every obituary seems to tell us, a thoroughly nice and considerate person, then you wouldn’t repond to being asked a question about it with "I’ll see you in Court!"

And if he’s a fairly well known businessman, all the more reason to be seen to be helpful and do what you can to assist investigators. Not file allegations of defamation of character against everyone who asks you a legit and innocent question.

His reputation was an asset. It was valuable. But, he never actually sued anyone. Doing so would have been the dumbest thing he ever could have done. Why open himself up to discovery? Why give more reach and oxygen to the claims? The court case would do more damage to his reputation.

Hi-

I asked him that Welsh. He said that he "should have been in England" the night Stine was killed (even though he was in good old PH talking to Pelissetti) and that he was not too concerned about his family because they had a safe home.
Mike

Should have been? Well that sounds like a convincing rebuttal to an allegation/question about ones availability to be chatting to A SFPD Officer on Jackson in San Fran, CA or not. A very unconfident and unconvincing response to try and eliminate ones self as a POI……

"Ummm, was I in Pacific Heights that evening……Hmmm, not sure but I don’t believe so. I was a few streets away West of Presidio Heights if I recall correctly."
Questioner: "Towards the Theatre District and that sort of vicinity you mean, Kjell?"
K.Q: "Kind of, yes. Place called Europe.
Questioner: "I beg you pardon?"
K.J: "Should be England I believe, Sorry, easy to forget and get mixed up about which Continent your on at any one time. Richmond Dist. vs Liverpool, the two are just so similar."

I mean to be serious about it though it seem’s Kjell has stolen Richie Gaik’s Alibi and himself is claiming he was in the UK too. Tomorrow I may discover a statement Larry Klien, Kane, Kaye, Barton, Cane or whoever he was being at that particular Month, declaring "Now let me see, December 21, 1968. Where was I….AH! I know…..68 you say correct? Glasgow City in Scotland, UK."

But seriously thought, I have always wondered about the possibility of Kane and Kjell being aquainted as both were involved in the auto-sales industry and one account I read claims Lawrence Kane was a ‘former car dealer from, I think it stated it was located in Alameda County, CA. He didn’t just sell cars as a car salesman according to this source that I have no idea how accurate or credible is, but He Kane, was a 2nd hand car dealer with his own business it seemed if the claimant is to be believed.
That”s another rather interesting little point too, the British Giant ‘Ford’ manufactured the Ford Zephyr and Ford Zodiac model of vehicles in the 60’s, and Kjell’s unique selling point was his vehicles were British design and were imported, as British vehicles would be, from the United Kingdom.

Do you remember where you were on a given day 40 years ago? I doubt it. I would have asked him why he thought he was in England, what events or business he would have been tending to there.

Hi Welsh,

The fact that KQ was out and about in PH with or without a dog is a fact, unless Armond Pelissetti has some agenda for saying it was him when it was not. I doubt Pelissetti would want that kind of headache.

Pelissetti wrote KQ’s name in a letter he sent to Jim Dean in 2007 or so. He was very cagey at first not wanting to mention the name but we pulled it out of him, first verbally and then in writing. If I need to produce the letter to show to the authorities at some point I will. But I’m sure Pelissetti would tell them himself if pressed. So don’t let the cynics get you down by trying to question even basic facts because they don’t have a police report in front of them. I’ve tried for years to get my hands on Pelissetti’s report. Let someone else try if they think they can get it. ABC News also said in 2001 that they were unable to place KQ outside of SF at any of his unusual haunts for any of the murders. England is included in his most usual of usual haunts. So right there he is not being forthcoming even without needing Pelissetti.

Mike

So, Pelissetti can be lying about a great many things, but he could not be mistaken about stopping KQ? You don’t believe what he has to say on many other things, why that one?

Hi-

I asked him that Welsh. He said that he "should have been in England" the night Stine was killed (even though he was in good old PH talking to Pelissetti) and that he was not too concerned about his family because they had a safe home.
Mike

Should have been? Well that sounds like a convincing rebuttal to an allegation/question about ones availability to be chatting to A SFPD Officer on Jackson in San Fran, CA or not. A very unconfident and unconvincing response to try and eliminate ones self as a POI……

"Ummm, was I in Pacific Heights that evening……Hmmm, not sure but I don’t believe so. I was a few streets away West of Presidio Heights if I recall correctly."
Questioner: "Towards the Theatre District and that sort of vicinity you mean, Kjell?"
K.Q: "Kind of, yes. Place called Europe.
Questioner: "I beg you pardon?"
K.J: "Should be England I believe, Sorry, easy to forget and get mixed up about which Continent your on at any one time. Richmond Dist. vs Liverpool, the two are just so similar."

I mean to be serious about it though it seem’s Kjell has stolen Richie Gaik’s Alibi and himself is claiming he was in the UK too. Tomorrow I may discover a statement Larry Klien, Kane, Kaye, Barton, Cane or whoever he was being at that particular Month, declaring "Now let me see, December 21, 1968. Where was I….AH! I know…..68 you say correct? Glasgow City in Scotland, UK."

But seriously thought, I have always wondered about the possibility of Kane and Kjell being aquainted as both were involved in the auto-sales industry and one account I read claims Lawrence Kane was a ‘former car dealer from, I think it stated it was located in Alameda County, CA. He didn’t just sell cars as a car salesman according to this source that I have no idea how accurate or credible is, but He Kane, was a 2nd hand car dealer with his own business it seemed if the claimant is to be believed.
That”s another rather interesting little point too, the British Giant ‘Ford’ manufactured the Ford Zephyr and Ford Zodiac model of vehicles in the 60’s, and Kjell’s unique selling point was his vehicles were British design and were imported, as British vehicles would be, from the United Kingdom.

Do you remember where you were on a given day 40 years ago? I doubt it. I would have asked him why he thought he was in England, what events or business he would have been tending to there.

We get it you don’t think KQ was the Zodiac. Please stop now this is getting ridiculous.

The guy Fouke describes and the subsequent drawing resemble Kjell Qvale accurately:

Is that photo from 1965 or 1969? Four years can make a difference. Do we actually know that KQ had that haircut and wore similar glasses in 1969? That would seem to be a very important fact to discover.

The guy Fouke describes and the subsequent drawing resemble Kjell Qvale accurately:

Is that photo from 1965 or 1969? Four years can make a difference. Do we actually know that KQ had that haircut and wore similar glasses in 1969? That would seem to be a very important fact to discover.

Welsh Chappie last visited the site in 2014, stop please.

Anyone think it is possible that Mr. X hid Zodiac at his house after the murder, and then he went outside to scope things out?

Qvale as the Imperial Wizard of Team Zodiac.

A bit Harry Martin, but I don’t know; it’s strangely tantalising.

Still raises the question of motive, though.

I think KQ states his motive quite clearly in his letter to The Chronicle where he scapegoats the media and LE for the rise of violent crime. That letter to me is just a tamer version of a Z letter. I think he set out to demonstrate just how inept LE was and how The Chronicle was glorifying murder. Being rich and relatively known, KQ didn’t feel safe in his own home and decided he rather be the aggressor, the powerful controller, rather than feel like a victim.

I just discovered from a new blog called crackproof that Z mailed most of his letters from SF, not all that far from PH. Which for me is another indication that suggests KQ was involved.

Isn’t ironic, though, that his letter to the editor decries lawless behavior, but you’re accusing him of the ultimate act of lawlessness: killing five people?

Hi-

The car was owned by an ex-employee of KQ’s Portland dealership, who apparently bought cars from the dealership and resold them. A Ghia with Oregon plates would by definition have been imported by the Q family. Seeing one at LB would have brought that to mind immediately to someone who knew that KQ was the importer of VW’s to the entire NW. Imagine if someone Gyke knew had anything to do with that car. It would be a huge stake in the coffin! But with KQ, I guess you have to "put it in perspective."

The same guy spoken to by Pelissetti on the night of the Stine murder had also imported Hartnell’s car. This guy had some run of bad luck!

Mike

But would it, though? I don’t think so. It would be a coincidence until you can place Gaikowski at LB that day.

I guess me and cragle are the only two who can spot trolls.

I guess me and cragle are the only two who can spot trolls.

Nah, you two aren’t the only ones.

The Karate Kid got back on the horse quickly…