I still am wondering about Bohemian Grove. KQ definitely visited there. George Livermore was a member there and he lived at the corner of Washington & Cherry in 1966 (in the 69-70 S.F. directory he was listed in an apartment a mile south of there). Thoresen owed Livermore thousands of dollars and did not like to pay his debts. He murdered a hit man who tried to get more money out of him. Thoresen probably would not have known that Livermore had moved, so maybe he thought he still lived on Cherry and hired Z to take him out. Z goofed and maybe said something to Stine that he shouldn’t have, and had to kill him instead and then hid out at KQ’s house. This would never be proven, so I guess it’s not even worth discussing.

I would love to get a look at Stine’s log book from that entire day and see if he had any pickup or drop off locations on KQ’s block or Thoresen’s block.

Livermore and his family are really interesting to read about. He had a brother who played baseball overseas in the Olympics, and another brother who is in the mining hall of fame or something like that.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/G … 693152.php

Hi-

The reason Vince said my case was interesting and compelling is that I back up all of my statements with documents that prove what I say is a fact. For example, if I tell you that KQ wrote to me on Monarch sized paper, I show the reader a letter (one of two, both of the originals of which are now in the possession of SFPD) that KQ sent me that was written on such stationery.

I see a lot of speculation here. Talk is cheap. The difference between speculation and a legitimate case is putting your money where your mouth is and proving what you say. I would never assert that KQ was hiding Zodiac in his house unless I had a basis for making such a statement. Otherwise, it is just message board chatter.

Mike

Hi-

The reason Vince said my case was interesting and compelling is that I back up all of my statements with documents that prove what I say is a fact. For example, if I tell you that KQ wrote to me on Monarch sized paper, I show the reader a letter (one of two, both of the originals of which are now in the possession of SFPD) that KQ sent me that was written on such stationery.

I see a lot of speculation here. Talk is cheap. The difference between speculation and a legitimate case is putting your money where your mouth is and proving what you say. I would never assert that KQ was hiding Zodiac in his house unless I had a basis for making such a statement. Otherwise, it is just message board chatter.

Mike

Nobody said that KQ hiding Z in his home was a fact. Just an idea that some people seem to like, including myself. Even if it DID happen, I don’t see a way of ever proving it. I don’t think anyone was knocking your work. Not from what I saw anyways. I think everyone respects your work whether they agree with it or not.

Otherwise, it is just message board chatter.

Mike

Yeah, well – the last time I checked this was a message board.

Most of us are in no position to build a legitimate case against anyone. We’re just discussing possibilities and theories. No harm in that as far as I’m concerned.

I think everyone respects your work whether they agree with it or not.

Indeed.

X could have allowed Z access to his residence..yea its possible..but its not highly likely and no way to ever prove a statement like that anyhow..i happen to like X and Z being buddies but the reality of that is-is no way to ever prove such a connection..but anything is possible..i struggle on some aspects of X and other POI’s as well.but your work mike is highly appreciated by me..im just glad we have some Z royalty that we mere low lifes can talk to.even more amazing is the Z royalty actually responds back to our drivel

I use to live 20 minutes from the Bohemian Grove. You probably are already aware the Bohemian Grove is located, if I’m not mistaken, Monte Rios in Sonoma County. The Bohemian Grove is very close to Sebastobal and Santa Rosa.

Hi-

I appreciate being called "royalty" but believe me, for years after the 2002 ABC show people did everything they could to make me feel anything but royal. MB folks trashed my research and for good measure mocked me personally in dirty little private chat rooms. Urged on by supporters like retired VPD Detective Jim Dean, I never gave up believing in my facts even in the face of the DNA because there were too many interesting things about KQ. It took years but I now have a retired Insp. from SFPD calling my work "compelling." That is a far cry from 2002, when SFPD Insp. Kelly Carroll called me a "wacko." Sometimes the tortoise wins the race…

The reason I am sensitive to unsubstantiated speculation is that for years I lived with the threat of a libel suit, so I was very careful to document everything I said.

Mike

Mike, I think I’ve asked this before, but do you have all your findings accessible in one place on the web? Thanks

the threat of the libel suit bugs me..why did X not see through that threat???? did X have a concern about not wanting to placed on the witness stand??? (like that would have ever happened)..what dirty laundry could possibly been aired?..was X concerned about about public perception that may have even thinly linked him in some regard to Z or being Z..bottom line is I think X feared the press more than anything (X was an arrogant ass IMHO and everybody was beneath him)..he was well known and while not front page any trial would have been reported on..proving libel while not easy I believe was really not the issue for X..he made the threat and it did have the result he wanted..people drew up sides and would have done whatever necessary in support of him (X is a legend)..but it still bothers me that some amateur sleuth with a believable rebuttal to anything X presented had to be a concern for him.. kinda funny A no name at the time got under his (X) skin and forced him to move…nobody ever stood there ground with X like mike did..people feared him and that makes me ask why the fear?…i dunno..just some thoughts on my end

Hi-

The entirety of my research is not massed in any one place on the Net. However, a lot of it is scattered in various threads on websites.

As for never being sued, the possibility of KQ not wanting to subject himself to cross-examination in a deposition was put to me as a possibility by several people. However only he knows why he never sued me.

Mike

Regardless of what one thinks of X as a Z suspect, him not suing makes sense on several levels. A libel suit would have boosted the interest in him as a Z suspect – and given the way of the world, not least in the Internet era, it wouldn’t necessarily have matted much whether he had won the case or not. I can imagine that the latter wouldn’t have been a major concern to him unless the thing got huge.

If Mike had shouted louder than he did – or published a book – then who knows. As it stood, though, he didn’t shout loudly, documented his finds and took obvious precautions to protect the man’s anonymity – so perhaps there weren’t even sufficient grounds to sue.

Hi-

For the record, I’ve never contended that the mere fact that he never sued me proves anything. I have lots of other proof for my ideas, though.

Mike

Norse,
In response to your earlier thread. The SF.Chronicle has always had society columnists over the years. Merla Zellerbach, Count Marco and though not a society columnist Herb Caen a legend here always had interesting tidbits about the well to do Pacific Heights crowd. Also the paper always had coverage of the openings of the S.F. Symphony season, the Opera, Ballet, Debutantes etc. There were always photos of these people and possibly something could be in there.

charliemartin

Hi-

For the record, I’ve never contended that the mere fact that he never sued me proves anything. I have lots of other proof for my ideas, though.

Mike

Hey Mike could you share more with us ? How tall was KQ ? Any military background ? Shoe size ? Things like that.
Thank you