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X=Z? Pros and Cons

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(@joedetective)
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I’ve been compiling a rundown in my head of all the circumstantial evidence againt KQ for themysterymachine and I decided I might as well just start a thread. For the sake of fairness I also thought I should be both prosecutor and defense. I hope Mike Rodelli can add more because I’m sure I am going to miss a few things or get something f’ed up. Also, I should acknowledge Mike for most, if not all, of this information.

Pros:

1. KQ’s letter to the editor published in The Chronicle before Z’s campaign began. Out of all the letters Mike and his buddy went through only one stood out as Z-like. When I read that letter I couldn’t believe how much it resembled Z’s —- especially the Red Phanthom and Badlands letters.

2. Then in 2006 Mike discovers that not only does KQ live a few blocks from the Stine crime scene, he was outside, walking his dog, in close proximity, just after the police arrived. Anyone else see the astronomical odds of this? Many argue that that’s a reason to think he wasn’t Z, because he was so close to home, but that brings me to number 3.

3. His autobiography is story after story of Kjell putting himself in harms way for no reason other than the thrill of it. He also comes across as boastful and egomaniacal. Sure he is a war hero, but other than that he was a glorified car salesman.

4. He is a WW2 vet. He has a military background. He would be familiar with arms.

5. His horse’s name was Skystalker.

6. He claimed to have been abducted, or have seen ufos. Can’t remember which one.

7. He sold cars. Z had a thing about cars.. there’s the Volkswagen thing that comes up in 2 crime scenes. Most importantly, KQ used to sign his cars with a black felt pen. Z signed the door of Hartnell’s car, a car KQ sold.

8. KQ’s headquarters had the crosshair symbol in front of it.

9. The crosshair symbol could be the celtic cross, or Odin’s cross. Oden is a Norse god. KQ was Norwegian.

10. Z fits the profile of a power assertive killer. KQ was power- assertive. Also, He had the means, the time and money, to pull it off with little effort.

11. He used Monarch sized paper

12. He resembles the Stine killer sketch. Face is dead ringer.

13. The sla letter. Again, KQ was Norwegian.

That’s all I can think of for now. I will do cons in the next post. Sorry for it being so sketchy.

 
Posted : August 19, 2014 4:26 pm
(@joedetective)
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Sorry, I just remembered another. It has to do with bizzare and incriminating words and phrases KQ wrote on a sheet of paper. Unfortunately, I still haven’t learned how to cut and paste http pages on this devive. So I will just have to direct you to page 10 of "Mr X website updated…" thread on Voight’s site. There might be some debate as to whether KQ wrote those words, but it seems pretty obvious he did.

 
Posted : August 19, 2014 4:47 pm
(@anonymous)
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Posted : August 19, 2014 5:40 pm
Norse
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There’s not much which connects KQ to that letter, though. The connection made is between an unusual looking "w" on KQ’s SS application and a similar looking "w" in that letter. I’m not sure how unusual it is (it looks distinctive – but it could be common enough for all I know). That’s one thing. Another thing is that we don’t know for sure that KQ filled out the application. The "female" box has been ticked on it. Is that a plausible mistake? Or is it more plausible that a secretary filled out the application? And a third thing would be that we don’t know if that letter was penned by Z.

Plenty of questions there.

To my untrained eye the writing looks a bit like Z’s, actually. I don’t mean the "w" (which resembles a "w" used in a highly questionable letter – we have no idea whether Z was behind it), but the writing on the application in general. And there we are again, one might say – there’s something Z like about most people’s writing! His style is generic. Which indicates – I’m leaning heavily in this direction now – that it was completely forced and faked.

Anyway, good thread, Joe!

Further pros might be:

Had property in the Napa region (a ranch, I think).

Claimed he couldn’t remember walking his dog on the fateful night. Seems unlikely to me. Sure, he was old at the time – but it seems odd still that he wouldn’t remember something like that. The Z case was huge back then – and he was questioned by the cops on the night, right after the shooting. When it became known that it was a Z crime, surely KQ took notice of this. The man read the papers, presumably.

 
Posted : August 19, 2014 8:39 pm
(@vince)
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At Lake Barryesa, they determined that Z’s car had two different front wheels, imo; a car enthusiast and a man who was financially comfortable would not have this.

 
Posted : August 20, 2014 12:05 am
Norse
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Then again a car enthusiast who also happened to be a devious killer probably wouldn’t drive around in a high end car when he did his thing. More likely that he picked up a functioning wreck somewhere which he could ditch after the deed. I think Z might have done the latter – or something close to it – regardless of who he was. He depended on cars for his getaway at three of four murder scenes, as far as we know (and he may have depended on one after Stine too). I think he made sure not to use the same car. Too risky and easy enough to avoid for someone who didn’t kill more often than Z did – even if he wasn’t…a car dealer!

 
Posted : August 20, 2014 1:05 am
(@joedetective)
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Before I get to the cons I’d just like to thank UKspycatcher and Norse for what they added to this thread. Also like to thank Morf for getting the SS application, when all of us KQ people were to cheap to buy it. I feel like I’m giving an award speech with all the shout outs, but you all are a great help.

Also want to say I am a little bias and therefore my cons will come with a few caveats.

1. Age and weight of KQ do not fit Z’s description. However, KQ looked much younger than he was at the time and you can always disguise yourself to look bigger if you need to.

2. DNA is not a matc. On the other hand there is a very good chance LE botched the DNA.

3. It is difficult to explain how KQ could have murdered Stine, walked a few blocks, disposed of his disguise, cleaned off blood, put his dog on a leash, all in that small window of time.

4. Motive. It is hard to understand why someone who seemingly has it all and is living the American dream would put it all in jeopardy for no apparent reason.

5. On a personal level, I have to ask myself do I think KQ was Z because I want KQ to be Z. Let’s face it, if that turned out to be the case this would be the greatest mystery story ever told. No fiction writer could come up with a more fascinating ending.

Do I think there’s enough evidence to arrest KQ if he were alive? No, but it’s enough to keep me wondering.

Also, Norse, just to add to what you said about how he couldn’t remember where he was that night, he was very evasive with Mike R about that, claiming he was most likely in London, but had conveniently lost his passport. So, how he manipulated Mike is yet another pro in my book.

 
Posted : August 20, 2014 4:20 pm
Norse
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Joe: Yes – and one could say that his behavior both before and during Mike’s interview with him was pretty strange, given the circumstances. Then again, how do you handle a thing like that? You learn that people regard you as a suspect in the Zodiac case – to an innocent man this would come as a shock. Still, I would say that his behavior is not perfectly in line with what I would expect.

I am a successful, rich businessman, a respected citizen in every sense. Someone accuses me of being involved with the Zodiac crimes. What do I do? Well, I sick my lawyers on the accusers and forget about it. I don’t agree to an interview and I don’t submit my DNA to some TV producer – because the whole thing is so preposterous that it’s not worth spending any time on at all.

But then again, I’m not KQ – and people react differently to such a thing. Perhaps KQ was a decent guy who wanted – as he seems to have suggested – to help the accusers realize that he clearly wasn’t their man. Mike doesn’t seem to think he was much help, though. He didn’t come across as convincing – or sincere – at all. But how do we interpret this? His intentions may have been the best regardless of how he came across there and then. Very hard to judge, in my opinion.

 
Posted : August 20, 2014 7:16 pm
ophion1031
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I just don’t see Qvale being Z, but I strongly think he knew Z and whoever else was involved. I do think that Z hid out at Qvale’s place after the murder, and Qvale was outside scoping out the scene when police saw him. Another interesting tidbit is that he had a psychotic murderer living 8-9 blocks from him who just happened to have a mansion full of weapons and was also a car nut who could have been a racecar driver if he wanted to. The man collected Ferrari’s, and probably knew and had dealings with Qvale.

Are there pics of Stine’s log book online anywhere? I would like to take a look at his other fares that evening/night. It’s possible that he may have picked up a couple people earlier and overheard a conversation that he shouldn’t have heard and then one of the people in the cab later decided that Stine could be a potential threat to his/her freedom and he had to be taken care of. It may sound stupid, but we have no idea what the motive was so why not throw the idea out there.

A few minutes ago on a toilet not very far, far away….

 
Posted : August 21, 2014 7:47 am
(@joedetective)
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I just don’t see Qvale being Z, but I strongly think he knew Z and whoever else was involved. I do think that Z hid out at Qvale’s place after the murder, and Qvale was outside scoping out the scene when police saw him. Another interesting tidbit is that he had a psychotic murderer living 8-9 blocks from him who just happened to have a mansion full of weapons and was also a car nut who could have been a racecar driver if he wanted to. The man collected Ferrari’s, and probably knew and had dealings with Qvale.

Are there pics of Stine’s log book online anywhere? I would like to take a look at his other fares that evening/night. It’s possible that he may have picked up a couple people earlier and overheard a conversation that he shouldn’t have heard and then one of the people in the cab later decided that Stine could be a potential threat to his/her freedom and he had to be taken care of. It may sound stupid, but we have no idea what the motive was so why not throw the idea out there.

That makes the most sense, Ophion. I would take it a step further, and suggest KQ could have been the one pulling the strings, but not pulling the trigger.

 
Posted : August 21, 2014 2:48 pm
(@snooter)
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at this point I can see the point of if X=Z you almost have to believe in multiple Z theory..still X interests me..

 
Posted : August 22, 2014 7:36 am
Norse
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KQ as the "Grand Chingon"?

Is there anything to this 4pi business? Sounds very flimsy to me, hardly based on rock solid facts. But the leader of this cult was supposedly a "wealthy California businessman of middle years".

 
Posted : August 22, 2014 6:39 pm
(@joedetective)
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Another pro is Z’s use of the phrase "road races." KQ would be more than familiar with this term seeing as how he took part in them, including, if I’m not mistaken, the Riverside road races.

 
Posted : August 29, 2014 10:44 pm
(@themysterymachine)
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I’ve been compiling a rundown in my head of all the circumstantial evidence againt KQ for themysterymachine and I decided I might as well just start a thread. For the sake of fairness I also thought I should be both prosecutor and defense. I hope Mike Rodelli can add more because I’m sure I am going to miss a few things or get something f’ed up. Also, I should acknowledge Mike for most, if not all, of this information.

Pros:

1. KQ’s letter to the editor published in The Chronicle before Z’s campaign began. Out of all the letters Mike and his buddy went through only one stood out as Z-like. When I read that letter I couldn’t believe how much it resembled Z’s —- especially the Red Phanthom and Badlands letters.

2. Then in 2006 Mike discovers that not only does KQ live a few blocks from the Stine crime scene, he was outside, walking his dog, in close proximity, just after the police arrived. Anyone else see the astronomical odds of this? Many argue that that’s a reason to think he wasn’t Z, because he was so close to home, but that brings me to number 3.

3. His autobiography is story after story of Kjell putting himself in harms way for no reason other than the thrill of it. He also comes across as boastful and egomaniacal. Sure he is a war hero, but other than that he was a glorified car salesman.

4. He is a WW2 vet. He has a military background. He would be familiar with arms.

5. His horse’s name was Skystalker.

6. He claimed to have been abducted, or have seen ufos. Can’t remember which one.

7. He sold cars. Z had a thing about cars.. there’s the Volkswagen thing that comes up in 2 crime scenes. Most importantly, KQ used to sign his cars with a black felt pen. Z signed the door of Hartnell’s car, a car KQ sold.

8. KQ’s headquarters had the crosshair symbol in front of it.

9. The crosshair symbol could be the celtic cross, or Odin’s cross. Oden is a Norse god. KQ was Norwegian.

10. Z fits the profile of a power assertive killer. KQ was power- assertive. Also, He had the means, the time and money, to pull it off with little effort.

11. He used Monarch sized paper

12. He resembles the Stine killer sketch. Face is dead ringer.

13. The sla letter. Again, KQ was Norwegian.

That’s all I can think of for now. I will do cons in the next post. Sorry for it being so sketchy.

SOrry Joe, I am just now seeing this! Thank you for starting this thread!
SO far the most compelling bit, honestly, is the fact that he was a salesman- and a good one. Recently I read about a study that showed that of all the professions, sales and banking have the most sociopaths. –
BUT- the whole tone of Z’s letters does not bespeak a man who is successful, at all. I always think of BTK’s letters. BTK never really boasted the way Z did. He would get all goofy and poetic and terribly creepy and even threatening, but there wasn’t that incessant "needling the blue pigs" number that Z would do. Now, Rader was a successful guy. He had a wife, a family, was a deacon, vp of his church, well respected. He didn’t have to prove anything to anyone. He got his kicks somewhere else, Z got his kicks a whole different place, but still both were motivated to reach out to the media- but they had very different messages. I think its makes complete sense- and the literature bears it out- that Z in real life was probably a total loser. KQ seems more like the type if, he were a killer, to do something in secret. Z wanted to be KNOWN.
But I am still reading all these threads- just my take on it so far. But it has to make sense on a psychological level for me. Its the main reason why, despite my still liking ALA as a suspect, I don’t feel entirely there with it. Because he was a molester and I just don’t think a guy like that would kill the way Z did. Things have to be of a piece.

 
Posted : August 30, 2014 9:56 am
(@joedetective)
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No worries, MM, hope you keep reading. I have problems with KQ too, but the fact that he was rich and successful isn’t oone of them. As Mike Rodelli has pointed out, your thinking that Z was "a loser" is old-school profiling. Nowadays Z would be considered power-assertive, which means, a person who already has lots of power, who gets off on his power so much that he takes it beyond the business world, to get his kicks and thrills in darker, more disturbing ways. In other words, he’s power-mad. I don’t put a whole lot of stock in criminal profilers, but a lot of that fits for me in regards to Z.

I’ve let go of most of the POIs on here to some degree, but I can’t seem to shake KQ. On the other hand, the evidence doesn’t seem to point to him being the actual killer, but there’s insurmountable evidence that points to his involvement.

I am still keeping an open mind, and looking into other suspects and scenarios. A part of me thinks it is probably a painter or janitor, or maybe college dropout, especially when I focus on Cheri Jo Bates.

 
Posted : August 30, 2014 3:35 pm
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