Pink: Just as I tried submitting my new post, I see you’ve already arrived at the same idea. Great minds…

Well, since I typed it already, I’ll go ahead and post it, but it’s just a less succinct version of yours, above…

Suppose the theory I posted above holds water (just supposing… )

He’s got his 3 witnesses set up to give the false description. He’s going to stab Bryan and Cecelia multiple times but not finish them off, hoping they’ll be able to describe the attack, his clothes, etc.

He still wants the 3 girls to give their description of him though, as the definitive description of his disguised face. He doesn’t dare simply approach his victims with the hairpiece, fake eyebrows, or whatever else his disguise consisted of, because up close, his victims might see that it was fake. Or, the hairpiece might come loose. So, he wears a hood. What he didn’t count on was Cecilia getting a look at his face before the hood went on.

So, the result (he thinks) is this: Victims can only describe his clothes, voice, scary hood and bib, the 3 girls can only describe his disguised face and clothes, the clothes tie it all together, and he’s got LE with a very misleading composite that starts launching "team Z" theories, and so on.

If that’s what he did, it was simple, yet brilliant.

And Marshall, it may have been dumb of zodiac to come so close to the girls at Lake B, but consider that:

Maybe Zodiac was wearing a wig and lost his glasses in hopes that the appearance would be noted by the girls and described to police and the composite based on his contrived appearance would throw LE off to his actual appearance (sans Wig and with glasses). He would want to make the creepiness obvious to the girls while in his contrived "disguise" to the girls so it would hopefully be noted to LE and tied to the Zodiac.

(Also Without glasses on perhaps he didn’t realize just how close he was to the girls or had to get closer to see them properly? Lol idk)

It could be a mixture of all of this.

Yup that’s precisely what I’m suggesting. Bad location, too many people to attack, he’s not a sexual pervert… the only reason to get so close is to be seen, so his disguised face can later be clearly described.

Yes Marshall! Right on! If he did utilize this scenario to throw off LE’s assumptions of his appearance and created a false identity/disguise it truly was brilliant. This is consistent with Zodiac saying he changed up his appearance. In what letter did he say he could disguise himself to look different and throw off LE? After Lake B by chance? Could this be a jab to LE for falling for the description of him given by the 3 girls at Lake B?

In what letter did he say he could disguise himself to look different and throw off LE? After Lake B by chance? Could this be a jab to LE for falling for the description of him given by the 3 girls at Lake B?

Yes and no.

Yes it was after LB. In the ‘Bus Bomb’ letter of Nov 9th 1969 but it doesn’t appear to have anything to do with Lake Berryessa. The talk of disguising himself seems most likely to be in direct response to the wanted posters with the sketch being distributed by SFPD after the Stine murder.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=140

In what letter did he say he could disguise himself to look different and throw off LE? After Lake B by chance? Could this be a jab to LE for falling for the description of him given by the 3 girls at Lake B?

Yes and no.

Yes it was after LB. In the ‘Bus Bomb’ letter of Nov 9th 1969 but it doesn’t appear to have anything to do with Lake Berryessa. The talk of disguising himself seems most likely to be in direct response to the wanted posters with the sketch being distributed by SFPD after the Stine murder.

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=140

Which would make sense. He seemed a little desperate after the Stine shooting, saying he used disguises, glue on his fingertips, etc. Why say that if he had had a good disguise at that crime scene? Why spend the time to wipe down the cab if he did in fact have glue masking his fingertips?

With Berryassa, if he did pull off the disguise routine as we’re speculating, the last thing he would say, at that point, is "by the way, I was disguised that time…"

Great point! He wouldn’t give away that he had a disguise at the Lake B scene via the letters – it would kill his false ID. But he indirectly clues us in later that he is not beyond the IDEA of changing his appearance. So if Zodiac was saying it to throw off LE in the Stine case even if it wasn’t true in that instance, then we know that Z is capable of thinking using a disguise is in a realm of possibility for himself.

Great point! He wouldn’t give away that he had a disguise at the Lake B scene via the letters – it would kill his false ID. But he indirectly clues us in later that he is not beyond the IDEA of changing his appearance. So if Zodiac was saying it to throw off LE in the Stine case even if it wasn’t true in that instance, then we know that Z is capable of thinking using a disguise is in a realm of possibility for himself.

If Ross… he was an actor, with an interest in theater. Disguises are an integral part of all that.

Wasn’t the acting stuff from high school?

Wasn’t the acting stuff from high school?

It was a serious interest for him. In fact he had the leading role in that film Morf has been trying to track down. Whether he continued to actively act somewhere after he left Riverside, who knows. But he certainly had, by then, known enough about acting to be aware of makeup, costumes (disguises) and so on.

Maybe playing Z became is new role…

IMO, when Z was "hunting," he wore a disguise. Didn’t have to be much: a hairpiece, glasses, jacket worn inside a jacket, shoes sized differently from his own normal size, perhaps thick-soled. Further, witnesses/victims would likely be frightened, which might exaggerate Z’s size. There have been so many different descriptions of Z that I tend to discount them.

Or perhaps even leaving a watch that was many sizes smaller than his wrist as well (CJB crime scene) to make investigators think her murderer was a thin guy. Sorry but I think whoever overpowered CJB had much bigger wrists and was far larger than the watch size suggested.

Anyways, I like how you describe his hunting disguises. Who knows what techniques he employed to give LE a false ID and in which cases… Maybe all as you suggest (except for the Stine murder). It’s not a far out theory – it makes sense. I’ve been thinking something along the same lines for some time.

If Paul Stine sketch is closest to Z’s actual appearance, why not use a disguise in this highly populated area when murdering Stine? IMO He must not have planned Stine’s murder out before committing it as many suggest. That one was sloppy, but also his last confirmed killing. Seems like it indeed did give Zodiac a scare/wake up call.

I think Fouke saw Zodiac without any disguise that day after Stine was murdered. Then no victims ever report seeing Zodiac again after Stine – no confirmed victims at least. The only thing that keeps Zodiac relevant after the Stine murder are his letters. I think he was somewhat "in hiding" after Fouke saw him. Decided to scale back. Things were too hot. His composit was out there sans disguise.

I think Fouke saw Zodiac without any disguise that day after Stine was murdered. Then no victims ever report seeing Zodiac again after Stine – no confirmed victims at least. The only thing that keeps Zodiac relevant after the Stine murder are his letters. I think he was somewhat "in hiding" after Fouke saw him. Decided to scale back. Things were too hot. His composit was out there sans disguise.

Do you, or anyone have a link or picture of this composite? I’m not sure which one is being referred to. Tyvm!

I think Fouke saw Zodiac without any disguise that day after Stine was murdered.

Or ‘night’ just to be super picky.

His composit was out there sans disguise.

Do you, or anyone have a link or picture of this composite? I’m not sure which one is being referred to. Tyvm!

I think Fouke saw Zodiac without any disguise that day after Stine was murdered. Then no victims ever report seeing Zodiac again after Stine – no confirmed victims at least. The only thing that keeps Zodiac relevant after the Stine murder are his letters. I think he was somewhat "in hiding" after Fouke saw him. Decided to scale back. Things were too hot. His composit was out there sans disguise.

I generally agree with this. But if we’re talking about Ross as Z, there are also two more things to consider.

1. His unusual behavior at the Stine crime scene, calmly wiping the car and walking away, with witnesses and later police all around, could indicate he was overdue for another visit to a mental hospital, which would’ve taken him out of action, at least for awhile.

2. The witnesses described him as heavy. We know he died of "extreme obesity." So, it seems that between the Stine killing and his death in 1977, he was putting on significant additional weight.

At some point, he simply may have gotten too fat to commit more crimes as Z.

I agree Marshall. If it was Ross it’s likely his mental illness was taking the helm considerably around the time of the Stine murder. I fully believe that his schizophrenia played a huge role in all of it. The odd walk can even be indicative of someone with schizophrenia Bc it is common for schizophrenics to have an odd walking style. But I don’t want to get too far into that Bc I don’t want to derail thread. Suffice to say that Zodiac was brilliant, but also insane.

And I agree that his Pickwickian syndrome could have effected his physical capability for carrying out an attack. Schizophrenics often gain weight, particularly when taking meds/treatment for their disorder. So Ross having Pickwickian syndrome on top of being schizophrenic was very very dangerous for his health. Honestly if Ross was the zodiac and his crimes were committed at a time when his schizophrenia was rampant – I feel bad for him. What a horrible "demon" he lost himself to. In theory I can see how the rev and his brothers might have told him to leave dodge after the CJB murder (just an idea of mine, not confirmed or suggested in case). I wish I knew more about what the reverend who supposedly raised his brothers and was CJBs reverend thinks about Ross, or the reverends contacts that might know more about his knowledge of Ross. I wonder if religious men back then would attribute his mental illness to a spiritual affliction – causing them to not fully understand the weight of mental illness? Way too out there I know, but it’s an angle that interests me.

I wish his brother would just submit DNA already – I’m sure if it was found Ross was a match to Z the public would be understanding about it considering Ross was so ill and not penalize Ross’s family in the court of public opinion.

Edited post

Z had no reason to believe anyone had witnessed him in SF. He couldn’t possibly know that Pelissetti would arrive so soon after he left the scene. So, while his behavior can’t be called normal (to me it’s that same detached style we recognize from both BRS and LB), it isn’t that striking either.

It wasn’t until he heard Pelissetti’s siren and then shortly after saw Fouke approaching that he had any reason to get really worked up – and arguably his behavior as described by Fouke is not, say, pathologically calm. The infamous lope may indicate that he was hurrying along, and he pretty much acted as expected when he pretended to enter 3712 (or whatever it was he did – he was obviously not keen on being observed too closely at any rate).