Hi,

The whole notion that Z is so old he can’t even move is absolutely preposterous. I once knew a man who was able to not only travel the world but also dodge traffic ON FOOT on SF streets at like 92. Whoever said this yesterday is clearly out of touch with reality.

Mike

I have an aunt who is 90, lives by herself and still drives. But those are rare exceptions. Anyway, if you’re correct on your POI, he’s dead.

FWIW, when I read the alleged "leak" yesterday, I simply thought this is another case of non-information designed "to stir the pot" or keep activity up on the website. Here we go again after how many hints/statements that something would be coming in the near future.

I then immediately Googled since I felt if there was any basis for this, more information (details) would hopefully be somewhere on the Internet. When there was nothing, I hit the snooze alarm.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

The Dr. Oz show also revealed nothing new IMO (at least not for those who have wasted hours of their life following this case). =

So why should anyone feel badly about "leaking" nothing? What would be interesting now that this has caused such a flurry of activity would be a detailed explanation re. what prompted this leak of nothing LOL! A general statement explaining without naming a specific LE or person would be perfectly o.k. and would not jeopordize any investigation.

Hi,

But people were saying yesterday IIRC that if Z is in his 80s he would basically be unable to flee very quickly. People are living and are active a lot longer these days. Were this the 1960s, 80 year-olds would have been considered pretty ancient but not today. It doesn’t matter if the man I suspect is dead or not. I was not arguing about my research but rather the perception that Z is very likely to be old and, therefore, necessarily decrepit.

Capricorn, "wasted" is so harsh! How about "invested?"

Mike

If you prefer "investment" rather than "wasted" o.k. We so far have a "negative return" on said investment.

I am placing a "stop loss order" on these investments and SPENDING my time where it will produce more positive results.

"Very VERY irresponsible on the part of whoever leaked this to Tom at this point of the investigation."

It appears the Vallejo Police Department has had its share of misconduct? recently?

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Val … 686566.php

Selected Excerpts Below

March 13th, 2019

Vallejo police chief announces retirement in wake of protests, concerns over police conduct

"Vallejo Police Chief Andrew Bidou announced his retirement Wednesday amid growing criticism of the Police Department’s conduct just over a month after officers killed a local man in a Taco Bell drive-thru"

"Vallejo police were scrutinized in 2015 when police officials wrongfully accused Denise Huskins, 33, and now-husband Aaron Quinn, 34, of lying about a kidnapping-for-ransom incident the couple said they experienced at the hands of suspect Matthew Muller. At the time, police officers hosted a news conference in which they said there was no evidence of an abduction."

"In 2017, Vallejo police killed 21-year-old Angel Ramos as he struggled with a teen at a house party. Police said Ramos was armed with a knife, but Ramos’ family told The Chronicle he was not armed."

"This year, the department was again met with community protests after six Vallejo police officers shot and killed a local man who had been passed out behind the wheel of a vehicle in a Taco Bell drive-through line on Feb. 9."

Hi,

But people were saying yesterday IIRC that if Z is in his 80s he would basically be unable to flee very quickly. People are living and are active a lot longer these days. Were this the 1960s, 80 year-olds would have been considered pretty ancient but not today.

Oh, I agree with you completely, he could be in his ’60’s even. Still, the odds are higher he’s not in great shape.

It doesn’t matter if the man I suspect is dead or not. I was not arguing about my research but rather the perception that Z is very likely to be old and, therefore, necessarily decrepit.

LOL, I was just giving you a hard time.

If Mike Rodelli is correct about Alan Keel and one of the 74 letters matches the 78 letter (probably the Exorcist letter) then we already have a FULL DNA profile, because you cannot definitively match a partial with a full. So, without knowing for certain if the 1978 letter and one of the 74 letters is a fake, wouldn’t this be the obvious DNA to run through GEDmatch first. What is there to lose. We surely cannot rely on these previous ‘handwriting experts’ to totally eliminate any communication. But if Keel is correct, we already have a full profile.

"Very VERY irresponsible on the part of whoever leaked this to Tom at this point of the investigation."

It appears the Vallejo Police Department has had its share of misconduct? recently?

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Val … 686566.php

Selected Excerpts Below

March 13th, 2019

Vallejo police chief announces retirement in wake of protests, concerns over police conduct

"Vallejo Police Chief Andrew Bidou announced his retirement Wednesday amid growing criticism of the Police Department’s conduct just over a month after officers killed a local man in a Taco Bell drive-thru"

"Vallejo police were scrutinized in 2015 when police officials wrongfully accused Denise Huskins, 33, and now-husband Aaron Quinn, 34, of lying about a kidnapping-for-ransom incident the couple said they experienced at the hands of suspect Matthew Muller. At the time, police officers hosted a news conference in which they said there was no evidence of an abduction."

"In 2017, Vallejo police killed 21-year-old Angel Ramos as he struggled with a teen at a house party. Police said Ramos was armed with a knife, but Ramos’ family told The Chronicle he was not armed."

"This year, the department was again met with community protests after six Vallejo police officers shot and killed a local man who had been passed out behind the wheel of a vehicle in a Taco Bell drive-through line on Feb. 9."

Though I appreciate VPD’s dedication to the Zodiac case, there has been some disgusting misconduct on their force in recent years.

It might explain why, from the beginning, there was speculation about Zodiac being a crooked VPD officer.

And if they have questionable ethics, it could explain an insider leak on DNA to Tom.

Hi,

I don’t understand what you are saying about Keel. He is the one who told me that both the 1978 letter and one of the 1974 letters are forgeries with matching. How can we have a full profile of Z’s DNA if they were written by someone else and Keel is the one saying it? This discussion is in The Hunt for Zodiac, which I believe you read.

Mike

"Very VERY irresponsible on the part of whoever leaked this to Tom at this point of the investigation."

It appears the Vallejo Police Department has had its share of misconduct? recently?

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Val … 686566.php

Selected Excerpts Below

March 13th, 2019

Vallejo police chief announces retirement in wake of protests, concerns over police conduct

"Vallejo Police Chief Andrew Bidou announced his retirement Wednesday amid growing criticism of the Police Department’s conduct just over a month after officers killed a local man in a Taco Bell drive-thru"

"Vallejo police were scrutinized in 2015 when police officials wrongfully accused Denise Huskins, 33, and now-husband Aaron Quinn, 34, of lying about a kidnapping-for-ransom incident the couple said they experienced at the hands of suspect Matthew Muller. At the time, police officers hosted a news conference in which they said there was no evidence of an abduction."

"In 2017, Vallejo police killed 21-year-old Angel Ramos as he struggled with a teen at a house party. Police said Ramos was armed with a knife, but Ramos’ family told The Chronicle he was not armed."

"This year, the department was again met with community protests after six Vallejo police officers shot and killed a local man who had been passed out behind the wheel of a vehicle in a Taco Bell drive-through line on Feb. 9."

Though I appreciate VPD’s dedication to the Zodiac case, there has been some disgusting misconduct on their force in recent years.

It might explain why, from the beginning, there was speculation about Zodiac being a crooked VPD officer.

And if they have questionable ethics, it could explain an insider leak on DNA to Tom.

Concluding that some police misconduct in recent years somehow relates to the VPD staff of 50 years ago is absurd. And just because there are protests after an officer involved death doesnt necessarily mean the killing wasnt justified. People will protest regardless of the circumstances.

Zodiac may have been a cop but to deride an entire police department spanning five decades because of a few bad apples (which there are in every line of work) is illogical and unfair.

Well said, KayElle. Agreed.

Well said, KayElle. Agreed.

Thanks, X!

Hi,

I don’t understand what you are saying about Keel. He is the one who told me that both the 1978 letter and one of the 1974 letters are forgeries with matching. How can we have a full profile of Z’s DNA if they were written by someone else and Keel is the one saying it? This discussion is in The Hunt for Zodiac, which I believe you read.

Mike

I have read it Mike – but what I am saying is that one 74 letter matches the 78 letter. They therefore must contain full DNA profiles in order to be matched. Alan Keel believes they are forgeries, but that is not fact. Some law enforcement believe the Exorcist letter to be genuine. Toschi believed the Badlands and Phantom letter to be genuine, as did a documents examiner he took them to. I am not doubting Keel’s conviction – but if many police believe in the Exorcist letter, then why don’t they back their conviction and use it. After all it is supposedly rich in DNA and would be my first port of call for using in GEDmatch. The fact they are constantly referring to the July 31st letters with respect to testing, rather than the Exorcist letter, indicates they have no confidence in this correspondence. However, if they stick the DNA from the Exorcist letter or 1978 letter into GEDmatch, they may identify the forger, or (for those who do believe the Exorcist & 78 letter genuine) the Zodiac Killer. Alan Keel doesn’t believe these two letters were from Zodiac, but not everybody is of this opinion. If for example, they put the Exorcist letter into GEDmatch and it provided a link to Kjell Qvale, would you then rule out Qvale because it had too much DNA on it, because as you stated Qvale wouldn’t have licked the stamps. Of course you wouldn’t – you would be declaring Qvale the Zodiac Killer.

Richard, I agree. Any DNA from the case, that they can develop a profile from — they should run.

The service is Free. You upload your file and you hit Search.

You never know what might turn up. It’s a no-brainer.

Hi Richard,

I did not say that the Exorcist letter was a fake. I said it had the best chance of being so and laid out a logical argument as to why. You should have read my book more carefully. And I doubt Keel would say the two letters were forgeries if he did not have a good idea who had written them. If I am wrong about the Exorcist letter and it had DNA on it that matched KQ, would you revise your review of my book?

Mike