Thanks for this – I only recently decided to delve into this case and I was struck by some similarities with Z. I really don’t buy into any of the cult stuff, I think his behaviour has proven he’s willing to say whatever necessary to (in his mind) make people think better of him.
I think there’s definite value of this case when trying to understand the mind of Zodiac, there are certainly enough similarities to wonder whether Z suffered similar mental problems or triggers during childhood. Also interesting was discovering that before going on his shooting spree, Berkowitz attempted to stab a girl to death as his first killing. Interesting escalation pattern.

I actually found Berkowitz to be very believable here. He’s not vindicating himself and has no illusions of ever getting out of prison (even if he did, the story wouldn’t help). The story is not farfetched at all and does make me question the possibility of a similar conspiracy between a few people with one writer in the Zodiac case. I’m not endorsing it, just saying that I don’t rule it out of the realm of possibility.

Well the possibility of cult involvement and therefore more than one person involved in the Zodaiac crimes is worth considering when you look at things like the Presidio Heights Zodiac was described as being 35 – 45 years of age, and yet both police despatchers who took calls from the man claiming to be Zodiac both described him as ‘Young Sounding’ with Dave Slaight stating "Possibly in early 20’s." Theres also the Zodiac of Lake B who has brown, curly hair that hangs down freely over his forehead who doesn’t really sound like the Pacific Heights Zodiac who turns up there two weeks later who now is described as having a receding hair line and widows peak, and the hair on top of his head was now described as reddish blonde. There are explanations for these being nothing more than Z himself changing his appearance, and the known reliability of eye witnesses. But changing your appearance facially is one thing, but going from full fringe of hair that flows freely down over your forehead to having a receding hair line/widows peak in the space of two weeks? Na.

And finally: "Out of all your posts recently… this one, I believe is on the right track." Opposed to all the other posts being useless and way off the mark? Lol

This is all covered in a book called "The Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry.

Its an excellent read. I think parts are overblown and very speculative.

But other parts are factually substantiated and the section on the Stanford University murder of Arlis Perry on 10/12/74 is very good.

Hi WC:

I actually enjoyed your research on Cane I think he’s a good suspect.

I never critique someone on their POI’s because I strongly believe there are many people involved.

The Berryessa attack is key to this case because Hartnell survived. Hartnell described his attacker wearing a hood; this is definitely an action of an occultist.

From listing to Berkowitz, he described several people or members with him during his attacks.

There were witnesses that said there were 4 to 5 suspicious characters hanging around Lake Berryessa before the attack.

Ak, you are right…we should look into the Perry case again. I forgot about how brutal that murder was and what was done to her body.

Dg9

It could very well have been several conspirators in the Z case. Zodiac always bragged how the police would never catch ‘him’ because he had been too clever for them so did that mean ‘He’ as the singular Zodiac never existed so you’ll never catch A killer called Zodiac because ‘He’ doesn’t exist? Or if one of the men who were acting as the live Zodiac at any scene and gets caught then he, like Berkowitz in NY, would be the fall guy for the whole lot of Zodiac’s crimes?
I know nothing of cult’s myself, other than hearing what we see when they are thrust into the media such as Waco. I do know however, because it appears on one of the pictured documents in this linked video, that ‘The Process’ did have a base & membership in CA in the mid 70’s at the very least.

Thanks for this – I only recently decided to delve into this case and I was struck by some similarities with Z. I really don’t buy into any of the cult stuff, I think his behaviour has proven he’s willing to say whatever necessary to (in his mind) make people think better of him.
I think there’s definite value of this case when trying to understand the mind of Zodiac, there are certainly enough similarities to wonder whether Z suffered similar mental problems or triggers during childhood. Also interesting was discovering that before going on his shooting spree, Berkowitz attempted to stab a girl to death as his first killing. Interesting escalation pattern.

Judging by your statement, it’s pretty obvious you know little of what’s happened with Berkowitz’s life since the attempt on his life wherein his throat was cut, and his resultant actions afterward.

And have you done any research into his cult allegations, or do you just dismiss them out of hand?

The Process, Four Pi, the Children of the Light, and similar factions, as well as many offshoots led by drug-addled teenagers who just think Satanism is "kewl", did, and do, exist.

Judging by your statement, it’s pretty obvious you know little of what’s happened with Berkowitz’s life since the attempt on his life wherein his throat was cut, and his resultant actions afterward.

And have you done any research into his cult allegations, or do you just dismiss them out of hand?

The Process, Four Pi, the Children of the Light, and similar factions, as well as many offshoots led by drug-addled teenagers who just think Satanism is "kewl", did, and do, exist.

I don’t find it at all strange that he was attacked in prison, they are often seen as targets because it’s an easy way for other inmates to gain notoriety, so I don’t think that points towards anyone trying to silence him.
As for the cult allegations, what I don’t understand is why he didn’t say it from day one once he was caught. My impression is that as soon as he was apprehended he was resigned to his fate and co-operated fully (or at least seemed to). So why hide the cult connection at that point? I always find it suspicious when a serial killer elaborates on their story after a period of time, it’s been suspected in quite a few cases (Ridgeway, Lucas, and Toole come to mind) that they start embelishing their history to maintain the spotlight they’ve lost.

Judging by your statement, it’s pretty obvious you know little of what’s happened with Berkowitz’s life since the attempt on his life wherein his throat was cut, and his resultant actions afterward.

And have you done any research into his cult allegations, or do you just dismiss them out of hand?

The Process, Four Pi, the Children of the Light, and similar factions, as well as many offshoots led by drug-addled teenagers who just think Satanism is "kewl", did, and do, exist.

I don’t find it at all strange that he was attacked in prison, they are often seen as targets because it’s an easy way for other inmates to gain notoriety, so I don’t think that points towards anyone trying to silence him.
As for the cult allegations, what I don’t understand is why he didn’t say it from day one once he was caught. My impression is that as soon as he was apprehended he was resigned to his fate and co-operated fully (or at least seemed to). So why hide the cult connection at that point? I always find it suspicious when a serial killer elaborates on their story after a period of time, it’s been suspected in quite a few cases (Ridgeway, Lucas, and Toole come to mind) that they start embelishing their history to maintain the spotlight they’ve lost.

Well in another documentary that I have been trying to find on youtube but failed so far, there are witness statements that suggest what Berkowitz is saying is true. One example that comes to mind is a witness who saw Berkowitz hanging around looking suspicious when she heard shots fired and David got into his car and left. And Berkowitz isn’t going to make people think any better of him if he comes forward with this because as he says, he was complacent in the crimes and even committed at least 1 himself. If he’d come forward and said of a cult involvement but wasn’t willing to name names, then I would agree it can’t be taken seriously but he didn’t do that. He named names. Witnesses who were not in the cult corroborated many of his allegations, and witnesses at the scenes themselves also corroborate what Berkowitz seems to be implying. He has nothing to gain by this, and if he were lying, then it should be easy to prove he is lying because he’s given so much detailed info. If he were found to be lying, then the public would hate him even more for trying to share the blame for these crimes. As it is, there seems to be more people coming forward to corroborate what he says that there are to dispute it. Many in LE suspects what Berkowitz claims is true as stated in this documentary, but the powers that be don’t want them looking into it. Wonder why?

That’s "complicit in the crimes", I suspect.
I’m the one who is complacent, clearly.

That’s "complicit in the crimes", I suspect.
I’m the one who is complacent, clearly.

I believe I can just about get away with claiming No, I meant to say complacent and not complicit and point to the fact that Berkowitz was caught after parking his car in an area that allowed his vehicle to receive a ticket and thus, proven he was in the immediate vicinity of the latest Son of Sam attack. I believe I can claim this to be down to sheer complacency. So yes, I will stick to my original wording and hope nobody notices. :-0

I’ve been on the fence about this one a long time. I get why most criminalogists would dismiss the claims of DB, but at the same time it would explain a lot of the mysteries still lingering in the SOS case, as well as The Zodiac Killier case.

As Chappie pointed out, the parallels in these case run deep. If there really is no connection then you’d have to concede that DB was at least inspired by Z.

For one thing, the motives appear to be the same, where the murders themeslves seem secondary to terrorizing the city and taunting police. And they both claim to be murdering for some higher resaon — demon possession, collecting slaves for afterlife.

Their MO is somewhat similar too, esp the ambush style. Both kill on weekends.

The letters are similar in tone and theme. One of Sam’s letters has the sentence "The wemon of Queens are z prettyist of all" for God sakes! Also the archaic word "shall" pops up quite a bit in both SOS and Z letters. The only real difference is that the SoS letters are way more overwrought and psychotic-sounding I think.

Another point about DB, he says in that Bill Curtis show that there would often be others nearby when the shootings happened.He talks about how in some of the SoS murders, he was just there in the background, scouting, looking out. I ccan’t help but wonder if that’s the case than is it too farfetched to think Kjell qvale was out doing the same in PH. Just a thought.

I second AK’s recommendation of the book The Ultimate Evil by Maury Terry.

Personally, I can’t decide whether Berkowitz was merely a lone nut or whether there is a lot more to it than that. Programmed To Kill is another good read about the politics of serial killing: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/059532 … 0553276018

I second AK’s recommendation of the book The Ultimate Evil by Maury Terry.

Personally, I can’t decide whether Berkowitz was merely a lone nut or whether there is a lot more to it than that. Programmed To Kill is another good read about the politics of serial killing: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/059532 … 0553276018

Well, all things considered, I would say David is highly likely to be telling rhe truth about a cult being behind the crimes and ‘The’ Son of Sam was deliberately misleading and why would I find cause or reason to say that? Well that’s easy…..

– Several NYPD Detectives have looked into the claims made by Berkowitz and followed up when and where possible and say they found his claims to be very accurate and evidence does exist in support of it.

– Berkowitz has, as he acknowledges himself, exactly 0% chance of being paroled or getting out of prison anytime while he’s drawing breath so has absolutely nothing at all to gain by coming up with this if it just a figment of his imagination.

– In the Son of Sam case, exactly like in this Zodiac Case, more than one composite was drawn up after two separate eye witnesses saw the shooter. The first composite looks absolutely nothing at all like the second just like Zodiac Composite A look nothing at all like Zodiac Composite B Illustrated below:

That’s one thing that David Van Nuys kept homing in on and seemed as though he was slightly baffled by Z announcing that "This is the Zodiac Speaking." Van Nuys on several occasions keeps bringing it up stating that to him this is simply an odd expression reasoning that he would expect the author to simply declare "This is Zodiac Speaking." Adding ‘The’ to become "The Zodiac" now has a specific implication that t offers to the reader, that being he is a singular entity, He isn’t ‘Zodiac’ in the plural, He is ‘the Zodiac’, the one, the only, yours truly, the one man crime wave!

Said many times that Zodiac uses misdirection and the art of suggestion to get people to believe what he knows they will automatically and see what it is that appear to be seen on the surface of a letter with the real message and meaning hidden right there in plain sight, all anyone has to do is stop looking at each tree as an individual thing and pretty soon, they will see the forest that lies before them as one big picture.