if I could ask a couple of basic questions:
Was the Zodiac definitely spotted in Julius Kahn playground (which we call JK)?
Is it established he entered the Presidio on Maple? Or could it have been Spruce, which has the easiest access to JK?
Is it established he intended to disappear into the Presidio and may have known the geography?
For all intents and purposes the Zodiac Killer was spotted by eyewitnesses in Spruce Street running into the Julius Khan playground. The description given, pretty much matches the three teenagers, and in particular Donald Fouke. The time would have been just a couple of minutes after Donald Fouke passed Zodiac by Jackson and Maple. The murderer would unlikely have entered the park through Cherry or Maple, because this access is hindered by a retaining wall, and shrouded by bushes etc, meaning there appears no access to the casual observer, which is why Zodiac accessed the park via the thoroughfare at Spruce Street. The Zodiac undoubtedly had reasonable knowledge regarding the geography of his escape route.
We know that the eyewitnesses from Spruce were taken seriously based on their description because the search dogs were congregated by the entrance to Julius Khan playground, described in Graysmith’s book. "The detectives heard from neighbors that a stocky figure was seen dashing across Julius Khan playground and into the dense undergrowth of the Presidio. The dog patrol units, seven of the best search dogs in the country, gathered at the front entrance of the Presidio and were deployed one at a time in various directions. Armstrong and Toschi considered the possibilities. Had the killer gone quickly through the dark woods and emerged from the Presidio at Richardson Avenue, and taken Highway 101 past Fort Point onto the Golden Gate Bridge and vanished into Marin County."
The Zodiac Killer described this in the ‘Bus Bomb’ letter "I disappeared into the park a block + a half away never to be seen again. The dogs never came with in 2 blocks of me + they were to the west"
All very interesting, thank you.
If the dogs were to the west that likely means he crossed the park west to east and headed into the woods behind the little league field.
If he really knew the area the shorter escape probably would been north, across the football field and around the back fence.
But if that was the case, west to east, he would only be a half mile from the Broadway gate, which if he knew the area might have been a more prudent exit point than Richardson Ave, which was over a mile away.
My guess is Graysmith discounted the Broadway gate because it’s been closed for about 40 years, but even so there is still pedestrian access.
Were the MP’s called into the search as well?
Zodiac gave us a clue where he escaped from the park. He stated "there was only 2 groups of parking about 10 min apart then the motor cicles went by about 150 ft away going from south to north west."
He had the option of west to east, as you stated. The only place in the park where he can observe from 150 feet away "motorcycles going from south to north west" is in the southeast corner. Presidio Boulevard travels south to northwest.
He could stay under cover until the right moment escaping by Lyon Street steps to his waiting car. Parts of Lyon Street, he is able to park his vehicle adjacent to the park, not outside a residence, occupying their parking space.
@37.7922597,-122.4463947,3a,60y,303.88h,78.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-kQJqsk2e4k1H-qQC27_Rw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en”> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @37.79225 … 6656?hl=en
Great map!
Yes, the Lyon Steps could make sense if he exited the Broadway gate. But the Lyon Steps are pretty exposed and there are houses lining the east side and you’d have to go 2 1/2 blocks to get to that parking area alongside the Presidio.
You could easily park right outside the Broadway gate though, on the south side of Broadway without interfering with anyone’s residence parking or attracting any attention. Especially in 1969 – it’s changed a little bit but not much.
But could he have been implying he parked within the Presidio?
Certainly, Broadway is even better. The "south to northwest" certainly suggested he was poised to escape the park here.
In those days there was also a Broadway on-ramp to the Bay Bridge, so that would have been one option, to head to the East Bay, though it would have required more city driving than getting on the Golden Gate would.
For the Golden Gate, you could exit the Broadway gate, get in the car, 3 blocks to Divisadero, left down the hills to Lombard, make a left and you’re gone. That would have taken maybe 2 minutes longer to get on the GG Bridge than parking down lower would have, but overall it would have been quicker and less risky because of less walking.
Because I believe Zodiac lived in the Vallejo area, my guess too, is he took the quickest exit over the Golden Gate Bridge. In a very short space of time he would have created a separation between himself and San Francisco. I am still looking for confirmation, but I read somewhere, there was a bus service directly to and from the Lyon Steps to Union Square. This makes it logical that parking his vehicle somewhere close by, not only also provides a degree of separation from the crime scene, but using the ‘least effort principle’ of geographical profiling, an easy and trouble free journey to the Union Square/ Mason-Geary area of San Francisco, from where he later hails or secures the taxicab of Paul Stine.
Not sure about a bus from Union Square to the Lyon Steps, other than private tourist buses where you get off at various sights but then get back on the same bus.
But if he parked on Broadway and Lyon, all he would have to do is walk 2 blocks to Jackson and Lyon, and then get on the city bus (the ‘3 Jackson’) which takes you to Union Square.
Something else I’m thinking about too – back then I believe you still had a manned tollbooth going north on the Golden Gate Bridge, while the eastbound tollbooth might have been eliminated by that point on the Bay Bridge.
Not sure. But if he was going to Vallejo he might have avoided any toll-person contact by taking the Bay Bridge and not the Golden Gate.
Also San Francisco to Vallejo via the Bay Bridge is about 45 minutes, while the Golden Gate Bridge to Vallejo (via Highway 37 at Novato) is an hour plus.
Also Highway 37 was 2-lane and more exposed, whereas if you took the Bay Bridge that put you on very busy multi-lane Interstate 80 the whole way to Vallejo.
Alternately he could have taken the GG Bridge and then the San Rafael Bridge, but again, another tollbooth.
Spruce is the first thoroughfare. Zodiac stated he entered the park one and a half blocks later. A subject with almost the same description given by Fouke and the teenagers was seen running into the park, just after the Fouke encounter, described in the newspaper above. Nobody saw a man scuttling over the retaining wall and through the bushes at Maple, where no access to the park is visible from Jackson Street, but this man resembling the descriptions given by a minimum of five individuals was spotted entering Julius Khan playground. And all the descriptions are very similar. With eyewitnesses our key to events on October 11th 1969, I’ll go with what people saw, rather than what nobody saw.
This was in response to Traveller, but the post has been deleted, so it probably now looks out of place.
No, the post looks great, more confirmation that he took the standard route into JK.
I skimmed some earlier posts and if I interpreted it right, you questioned why Foulke would head to Arguello, away from the scene–but Arguello is the only way to get into the Presidio except for Presidio Avenue, so if he had a hunch to look around and backtrack on the other side of the wall toward JK that would be the only way, at least in a vehicle.
This is the backside of Maple.
He wouldn’t have had to go through the bushes. I don’t this has changed much since 1969…except smaller bushes. The bar may not even have been there then. I always thought he would have had a nice view from the top of Pacific .
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Well, you make a fair case. I’ll take a good look around next time I’m in the neighborhood.
Not following you though re the Pacific hill photo?
You are correct Tahoe, although at night you can imagine what he would see from Jackson.
@37.7897662,-122.4557781,3a,37.5y,352.46h,85.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syZMCNZiUqYYg3MSY–_otA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en”> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @37.78976 … 6656?hl=en
That’s a good point too. If you didn’t know the area pretty well, your instinct at night might be that you’d end up in someone’s backyard.
Was Kjell Qyale a legitimate suspect?
Depends who you ask. Mike Rodelli would say yes. For me, no. He was born July 7, 1919. I’m with Michael Butterfield on this, the evidence against any of the suspects can hardly be described as evidence, and the way the suspects are shoehorned to fit the evidence is the wrong way around. Kim Rossmo explains this perfectly when he says let the evidence drive the suspect.
"If we’ve made our determination beforehand the psychological research is very clear, try as we might, we become locked into circular patterns of thinking. We see titles (claiming individuals as Zodiac) full of hubris about how they’ve solved the Zodiac case, but they tend to be textbooks of how not to do a criminal investigation."
