From the old site:

, Subject: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:51 pm

This was apparently posted over on ZK.com. It’s pretty interesting, and features Joe Stine and Melvin Belli, among others.

http://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/190215

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:29 am

I feel so sad watching this; you can see that Joe Stine is a good person and really hurting while trying to put up a "brave front"…

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:49 am

Did anyone notice, in the vidoe, that Joe Stine (Paul Stine´s brother) had, what seems to be, scratches on his cheek?
This video is 11 days after His brother was killed.

Additional info of possible interest:
Joe Stine did live in Vallejo in 1968.
(this was stated in his stepfather Roy James Harrison´s obit in Oct 1968,posted on Zodiackiller.com by Tom V )
Joe Stine divorced his wife Helen in Kings County in September 1970
One of Paul and Joe Stine´s siters was married twice and had several children in Solano county.

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:52 am

He worked in a gas station/garage, so I just assume that is oil, or scratches from working under a car. That is pretty common for mechanics, to get oil, scratches, debris, dirt, cuts or whatever on their faces and hands…

Obviously the police would have detained him for questioning if they felt anything else were going on.

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:49 am

He worked in a gas station/garage, so I just assume that is oil, or scratches from working under a car. That is pretty common for mechanics, to get oil, scratches, debris, dirt, cuts or whatever on their faces and hands…

Obviously the police would have detained him for questioning if they felt anything else were going on.

I dont agree, IMO it IS scratches.

And it is kind of strange that it seems that Joe didn´t mention that he had lived in Vallejo in 1968 when the Farraday/Jensen murders took place.

And also interesting is the fact that, Paul and Joe Stine´s sister Carol had HUGE conections in Solano County, she married/divorced twice between 1966-1977and had two children in Solano County, the first child in July 1968 the last in 1977! WHY has this never come out???

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:02 am

Zabagliona wrote:
He worked in a gas station/garage, so I just assume that is oil, or scratches from working under a car. That is pretty common for mechanics, to get oil, scratches, debris, dirt, cuts or whatever on their faces and hands…

Obviously the police would have detained him for questioning if they felt anything else were going on.

Yes, like I said, mechanics get dirty and scratched all the time.

I am not quite understanding what is so earth shattering about them "having connections" in Solano county, and what those connections were??

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:20 am

The Modesto Bee
Wednesday, October 22, 1969

MODESTAN OFFERS TO BE KILLERS VICTIM

Joe Stine, 31, of Modesto, brother of a San Francisco cab driver who was slain by the killer known as Zodiac, offered himself today as the Zodiac’s next victim.

"I’ve been thinking about it since they found that little girl killed in San Jose." Joe Stine said as he tightened a tire rod in the southwest Modesto service station where he works as a mechanic.

Brother Died

"I decided to do it this morning and called the (San Francisco) Examiner and told them," Stine said.

"It’s pretty hard to lose a brother and just forget about it. Maybe if he makes an attempt on me they can close the area off and get him."

Joe’s brother Paul was shot to death Oct. 11 while working the night shift for the Yellow Cab Company in San Francisco. The Hughson High School and Fresno State College graduate was selling insurance during the day and driving a cab nights while studying for his doctor of philosophy degree at San Francisco State College. He would have received the degree in January.

Paul Stine was killed instantly when the killer put a nine millimeter automatic to his cheek and pulled the trigger. The killer was seen wiping down the inside of the bloodied cab with piece of cloth, believed to have been torn from Paul’s undershirt.

A piece of the cloth was sent to The San Francisco Chronicle by a man who claimed he committed four other murders in the Napa and Vallejo areas. He has called himself the Zodiac.

While Joe Stine, who lives with his mother in a small home in south Modesto, admits to being nervous about the prospect of the killer taking up his challenge, the only evidence of any nervousness is the precaution he takes when leaving the lube room for the gas pumps.

Checks Driver

A man in a pickup truck pulled into the station, setting off the customary gong.Stine walked slowly o the lube room door, then, satisfied the driver was not Zodiac, walked out to wait on him.

Joe was asked if he thinks the killer will accept his challenge, "I hope he does, though I’m not real brave about it. Actually, I figure he will," Stine added.

Joe Stine is small, balding and has flashing blue eyes. He wears a brown uniform when he works at Merle Barnes Richfield service station at Sutter and Rouse avenues.

His arms are coated with grease and there are cuts on his knuckles from slips of the wrench.

"I gave The Examiner my work schedule to make it easier for Zodiac," Joe says "I go to work at 7 a.m. and am off at 5 p.m., I go to lunch every day at The Walking Chicken up at the corner at noon."

Doesn’t Know

What is the reaction of the woman whose youngest son has already been slain by Zodiac and whose oldest son has offered himself to be a target for the killer ?

"She doesn’t know yet," Stine answers "But I’m going to catch hell when she does. I’m going to catch hell from my relatives too."

Audra Harrison, mother of Joe and Paul Stine, has been under heavy medication since the death of Paul, Joe said. Joe lives alone with his mother. His ex-wife has Joe’s only child, an 8-year-old boy. Joe will not tell where they live.

Joe graduated from Sonora High School, spent half a semester at Modesto Junior College and a semester at business school before he joined the Army. He spent seven years in the service and was stationed in Korea and France.

Although Joe spends his days working on cars, he does not own one. He rides a rickety bicycle to work.

Joe has not asked for any police protection. He is not carrying a weapon.

"I’d rather he get me than to have that nut kill a bunch of kids."

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:26 am

Someone reacted to Joe Stine very strongly. Doug Oswell and I, and some others, wonder if this letter from AROUSED is actually the Zodiac.

Someone else pointed out the the Johns attack was near this very area where Joe Stine worked. Was Zodiac sending a message? Did Zodiac write this letter?

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:32 am

Very, very interesting, AK!!! Yes, I think it is possible; does anyone know if the name of the check sender was ever revealed??

Since he indicates he sent a "small check", a name would have been on it…

Either the guy is who he says, an innocent classmate, or ???

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:35 am

…looks like it is still a gas station, amazingly enough, cannot tell if there is still an oeprating garage there too…If you turn and look across the street from the gas station, I would guess that the garage used to be there, or it is the one across the street from the side of the gas station…

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=706 … CAgQ8gEwAA

It would be interesting to find out…somehow… if a check was ever sent in…

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:38 am

Zab = "Either the guy is who he says, an innocent classmate, or ???"

Yeah, kinda like the Hautz letter, is it from an innocent classmate or…something else?

This writer wouldn’t give his name.

And the fake name given, AROUSED, is odd! Why does he pick AROUSED? I could see the Zodiac would be AROUSED by Joe Stine’s challenge.

No indication if a check was ever sent in.

On the surface the letter praises Joe Stine, but beneath the surface it seems to be mocking him.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:42 am

This is speculative, but it also fits into an entire series of letters, which usually purport to be from a "concerned citizen", "helpful tipster", "friend of the killer" or the actual killer, which I discovered in a bunch of cases I had linked as possibly having Zodiac and/or TK connections.

And what do the names of these letter senders all have in common?

ANONYMOUS

AROUSED

ARMCHAIR

A CITIZEN

A FRIEND

AFRAID

ALLEN

ARGUS

AVENGER or LORDS AVENGER

AFACFJS

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:56 am

In addition to having a "comic book superhero" "je ne sais quoi", they all begin with the letter "A"… :bball:

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:00 am

TheForeigner, what would you estimate Joe Stine’s height and weight to be…??

(I would say about 5’4" and maybe 145 lbs soaking wet…)

Thank you Mr. Bungle for posting this….

My "sixth sense" feels that this is a man who is suffering greatly (look at his eyes), and has internalized it…

Zamantha, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:40 am

He worked in a gas station/garage, so I just assume that is oil, or scratches from working under a car. That is pretty common for mechanics, to get oil, scratches, debris, dirt, cuts or whatever on their faces and hands…

Obviously the police would have detained him for questioning if they felt anything else were going on.

I dont agree, IMO it IS scratches.

And it is kind of strange that it seems that Joe didn´t mention that he had lived in Vallejo in 1968 when the Farraday/Jensen murders took place.

And also interesting is the fact that, Paul and Joe Stine´s sister Carol had HUGE conections in Solano County, she married/divorced twice between 1966-1977and had two children in Solano County, the first child in July 1968 the last in 1977! WHY has this never come out???

The Foreigner, I find all the Vallejo connections interesting. I don’t think all the posters here are aware of them, since they were brought up on Tom’s site. But when I first read/heard that it did make me go Hmmmmm very interesting. I sometimes feel the LE did interview their man, and let him go… didn’t have enough…or couldn’t do anything about it. I say good eye for seeing those starches or marks…. and dig around more. You can’t rule someone out my lookin into their eyes. Nin is right in what they posted on another thread, we may just someday stumble upon something, prepare to stumble. Not saying this is it, but hey everyone don’t be so quick to say No, dig around and then prove him no.

* I honestly feel the police could of detained their man ( whichever one he is) and let him go…..it does happen.

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:17 pm

Thanks Zamatha

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:19 pm

Someone reacted to Joe Stine very strongly. Doug Oswell and I, and some others, wonder if this letter from AROUSED is actually the Zodiac.

Someone else pointed out the the Johns attack was near this very area where Joe Stine worked. Was Zodiac sending a message? Did Zodiac write this letter?

Or, who knows, it could have been Joe Stine himself who wrote that letter.

By the way:

Joe Stine was 7 years in the Army, France and Korea.
An Air Force veteran.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:28 pm

The gas station Joe worked at was on Rouse Avenue.

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:49 pm

In addition to having a "comic book superhero" "je ne sais quoi", they all begin with the letter "A"… :bball:

tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:56 pm

And TF–I think it could be damn significant that Joe Stine lived in Vallejo and IMPERATIVE LE know this.

I mean, come on! You have the brother of a Zodiac victim having lived in the same town where the Zodiac attacks started (at least in Z’s eyes) and that is of NO importance??? WTF?

Joe could have worked with him, lived next door to him, had an altercation with him….there are just soooo many reasons it would be important to mention you lived in Vallejo…HELLO????????????

Looking for ties and connections is numero uno.

It very well may be nothing, but to say nothing…"hey I lived there"….I don’t get it. Guess it just slipped his mind.

Of course Joe would be upset his brother was murdered, but it sure doesn’t show in that video. Probably just overwhelmed by the media attention.

Many have thought Joe wrote the "Aroused" letter himself. A grown man having to ride his bike to work. He was obviously in a financial bind. Who knows…

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:57 pm

The gas station Joe worked at was on Rouse Avenue.

The :study: award goes to Tahoe27!

So this writer was perhaps in effect sending a "shot across the bow" by letting Joe Stine know that he knew where he worked.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:02 pm

Thanks AK. But, I believe Joe himself offered that info to Zodiac…along with the fact he lived with his Mother.

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:04 pm

The gas station Joe worked at was on Rouse Avenue.

great catch tahoe !

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:06 pm

Right. But perhaps the writer used a variation on the street name as a way of saying "I heard where you live…" It is just one more add thing about this letter, and it fits into the "A" pattern.

Just in the Zodiac case we have:

ANONYMOUS

AROUSED

ARMCHAIR

A CITIZEN

A FRIEND

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:07 pm

And TF–I think it could be damn significant that Joe Stine lived in Vallejo and IMPERATIVE LE know this.

I mean, come on! You have the brother of a Zodiac victim having lived in the same town where the Zodiac attacks started (at least in Z’s eyes) and that is of NO importance??? WTF?

Joe could have worked with him, lived next door to him, had an altercation with him….there are just soooo many reasons it would be important to mention you lived in Vallejo…HELLO????????????

Looking for ties and connections is numero uno.

It very well may be nothing, but to say nothing…"hey I lived there"….I don’t get it. Guess it just slipped his mind.

Of course Joe would be upset his brother was murdered, but it sure doesn’t show in that video. Probably just overwhelmed by the media attention.

Many have thought Joe wrote the "Aroused" letter himself. A grown man having to ride his bike to work. He was obviously in a financial bind. Who knows…

Couldn´t agree more, great post tahoe.

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:11 pm

He is barely taller than the car he is standing next to…

Tahoe, who were the "many" that thought that Joe wrote the letter himself; I had not heard this. Clearly he was in a financial bind, he was divorced and paying child support; however, since any insurance Paul had would have gone to his wife, I again, absolutely do not understand your logic here.

Other than having a visceral reaction to a man who did not do anything, you and theForeigner are making no sense……to me, anyway…

Zamantha, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:14 pm

He is barely taller than the car he is standing next to…

TheForeigner, who were the "many" that thought that Joe wrote the letter himself; I had not heard this. Clearly he was in a financial bind, he was divorced and paying child support; however, since any insurance Paul had would have gone to his wife, I again, absolutely do not understand your logic here.

Hey Zag, it’s ok not to understand The F. logic….but lets’ let her continue, OK. This is the free speech forum, so she’s allowed to stay open minded an look at everything. Plus, we all have discussed where the discription of the Z could be a little off……….who knows…………I know I don’t. But I want to hear the ideas….

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:16 pm

I am sorry for stating a fact. In the beginning of the video, the man who is being interviewed is cleary barely taller than the car he is standing next to/leaning against. I do not understand how this is offensive.

tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:30 pm

He is barely taller than the car he is standing next to…

Tahoe, who were the "many" that thought that Joe wrote the letter himself; I had not heard this. Clearly he was in a financial bind, he was divorced and paying child support; however, since any insurance Paul had would have gone to his wife, I again, absolutely do not understand your logic here.

Other than having a visceral reaction to a man who did not do anything, you and theForeigner are making no sense……to me, anyway…

Some other posters have stated this in the past at other sites. Just meaning it wasn’t news some have thought Joe could have written the letter himself in order to get sympathy and possibly receive money from folks to purchase a car.

Has nothing to do with Joe’s insurance.

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:31 pm

Got it; I understand now….thanks!

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:31 pm

Got it; I understand now….thanks!

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:20 pm

The Modesto Bee
Wednesday, October 22, 1969

MODESTAN OFFERS TO BE KILLERS VICTIM

Joe Stine, 31, of Modesto, brother of a San Francisco cab driver who was slain by the killer known as Zodiac, offered himself today as the Zodiac’s next victim.

"I’ve been thinking about it since they found that little girl killed in San Jose." Joe Stine said as he tightened a tire rod in the southwest Modesto service station where he works as a mechanic.

Brother Died

"I decided to do it this morning and called the (San Francisco) Examiner and told them," Stine said.

"It’s pretty hard to lose a brother and just forget about it. Maybe if he makes an attempt on me they can close the area off and get him."

Joe’s brother Paul was shot to death Oct. 11 while working the night shift for the Yellow Cab Company in San Francisco. The Hughson High School and Fresno State College graduate was selling insurance during the day and driving a cab nights while studying for his doctor of philosophy degree at San Francisco State College. He would have received the degree in January.

Paul Stine was killed instantly when the killer put a nine millimeter automatic to his cheek and pulled the trigger. The killer was seen wiping down the inside of the bloodied cab with piece of cloth, believed to have been torn from Paul’s undershirt.

A piece of the cloth was sent to The San Francisco Chronicle by a man who claimed he committed four other murders in the Napa and Vallejo areas. He has called himself the Zodiac.

While Joe Stine, who lives with his mother in a small home in south Modesto, admits to being nervous about the prospect of the killer taking up his challenge, the only evidence of any nervousness is the precaution he takes when leaving the lube room for the gas pumps.

Checks Driver

A man in a pickup truck pulled into the station, setting off the customary gong.Stine walked slowly o the lube room door, then, satisfied the driver was not Zodiac, walked out to wait on him.

Joe was asked if he thinks the killer will accept his challenge, "I hope he does, though I’m not real brave about it. Actually, I figure he will," Stine added.

Joe Stine is small, balding and has flashing blue eyes. He wears a brown uniform when he works at Merle Barnes Richfield service station at Sutter and Rouse avenues.

His arms are coated with grease and there are cuts on his knuckles from slips of the wrench.

"I gave The Examiner my work schedule to make it easier for Zodiac," Joe says "I go to work at 7 a.m. and am off at 5 p.m., I go to lunch every day at The Walking Chicken up at the corner at noon."

Doesn’t Know

What is the reaction of the woman whose youngest son has already been slain by Zodiac and whose oldest son has offered himself to be a target for the killer ?

"She doesn’t know yet," Stine answers "But I’m going to catch hell when she does. I’m going to catch hell from my relatives too."

Audra Harrison, mother of Joe and Paul Stine, has been under heavy medication since the death of Paul, Joe said. Joe lives alone with his mother. His ex-wife has Joe’s only child, an 8-year-old boy. Joe will not tell where they live.

Joe graduated from Sonora High School, spent half a semester at Modesto Junior College and a semester at business school before he joined the Army. He spent seven years in the service and was stationed in Korea and France.

Although Joe spends his days working on cars, he does not own one. He rides a rickety bicycle to work.

Joe has not asked for any police protection. He is not carrying a weapon.

"I’d rather he get me than to have that nut kill a bunch of kids."

The newsarticle says that JS was 31, but Joe Stine was 34 in 1969, he was born June 10th 1935:

California Death Index, 1940-1997
about Joe Charles Stine
Name: Joe Charles Stine
Social Security #: 564424684
Sex: MALE
Birth Date: 10 Jun 1935
Birthplace: Oklahoma
Death Date: 1 Aug 1981
Death Place: Stanislaus
Mother’s Maiden Name:Busby

And he died very young , only 46 years old, anyone know how he died?

Not that it has to mean anything, but he died on the exact 12 year aniversery of Zodiac´s name debut letter August 1st, 1969.
Joe´s stephfather died Oct 10, 1968, 1 year and 1 day prior to the Paul Stine murder.
Joe´s divorce was dated Sep 1970

Those who asked if Joe Stine had any children, yes he had a son, named Mark in Sep 1961, born in Fresno County.

, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:36 pm

STINE, JOE
564-42-4684
Birth: 10 Jun 1935
Death: Aug 1981

Yes, I get the same thing from the SSDI.

Ask Tahoe or Tracers; they may know how he died, having access to the scrapbook of family information on another site.

tracers, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:35 pm

IIRC, it was a poster named Davidmad at Tom’s site who first posted the "Aroused" letter in August 2007:

http://zodiackiller.21.forumer.com/view … ed&start=0

I recall a while back in chat, Sandy, Ricardo and Calman were talking about a trip they took to find out more about Paul. They took some pix of the gas station. Did these get posted? I forget,

AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:24 pm

Yes I think those are posted here somewhere, and as I recall, they showed the Joe Stine gas station fairly close to where Johns was abducted.

Found it.

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … r-t206.htm

tracers, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:32 pm

Thanks AK! And Thanks to Sandy, Ricardo and Calman!

Zamantha, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:24 pm

I am sorry for stating a fact. In the beginning of the video, the man who is being interviewed is cleary barely taller than the car he is standing next to/leaning against. I do not understand how this is offensive.

Zab, what I meant in this post was not coming down on you or anyone. But some of these threads are interesting, and I love
to see the research done on this thread. I by not means am saying Joe Stine is guilty. But I’m interested in the case presentation
by The Foreigner and Tahoe on this one. SO, far…I found some of it interesting.
Also, alot of people nay a thread because of their own agenda, POI or theory. I would just like everyone to have a chance to tell their
thoughts, and show what they found, and then yes of course agree to disagree with them. But nice to give them a chance to post everything
first.
Also, I don’t think everyone here on Morf’s Board knows that you used to work with Claudia Stine, Pauls wife, I was hoping you could tell us a little about
what years you two worked together, what type of job. Did you talk alot, where you friends out side of work? Are you still in connect. Also
if you could share with us what she shared with you about Paul and the case. Totally appreciate it! Zam*

tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:36 pm

JOE STINE

• 34 Years old[/*:m:4dtg3t1o][/list:u:4dtg3t1o]
• 5′ 7"[/*:m:4dtg3t1o][/list:u:4dtg3t1o]
• 165 pounds[/*:m:4dtg3t1o][/list:u:4dtg3t1o]

zodiackiller.com
http://www.zodiackiller.com/PSNA3.html



Theforeigner, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:07 pm

JOE STINE

• 34 Years old[/*:m:4dtg3t1o][/list:u:4dtg3t1o]
• 5′ 7"[/*:m:4dtg3t1o][/list:u:4dtg3t1o]
• 165 pounds[/*:m:4dtg3t1o][/list:u:4dtg3t1o]

zodiackiller.com
http://www.zodiackiller.com/PSNA3.html

Thaks tahoe.

here are 3 description of the hight od the Zodiac killer, from 3 of his murders, ALL 3 description include 5.8" as a possibility:

"Michael Mageau survived the attack and was able to give a description of the shooter to authorities. He described the attacker as a short, heavyset white man, about 5′ 8" and around 195 pounds."

"Cecelia Ann Shepard and Bryan Calvin Hartnell, two college students who had also made a spontaneous trip from Angwin, were picnicking at Twin Oak Ridge, a peninsula on the western shore of the lake, at twilight when they were approached by a man later described as 5’8" to 6′ tall, dark-haired, and heavyset, wearing a dark jacket and dark clothing that seemed sloppy or dishevelled."

" The three witnesses watched the suspect from approximately 60 feet away as he wiped down the cab with a cloth after killing Stine. They called the police and described a white male, 25 to 30 years old, 5’8" to 5’9", stocky build, reddish-brown hair worn in a crew cut, heavy-rimmed glasses and dark clothing."

Concerning how heavy Zodiac was, that could easily have been changed by the Zodiac by adding extra clothes etc.
And Joe was actually pretty broad-shouldered guy, and as he himself stated in the newsarticle tahoe posted "I´m in excellent shape"



tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:20 pm

Sort of interesting. The first composite states 5’8" – 5’9". But, the revised version sticks with the shorter height and drops the 5′ 9".



tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:02 pm

This was apparently posted over on ZK.com. It’s pretty interesting, and features Joe Stine and Melvin Belli, among others.

http://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/190215

Let’s give NIN a shout-out for finding this one! :affraid: :star: :star: :star: :star: :star:



tracers, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:11 pm

YAY NIN!



tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:30 pm

I cannot stand Melvin Belli.



Zamantha, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:34 pm

I cannot stand Melvin Belli.

Once a long while back, when having lunch at a well known SF restaurant , If ONLY I could remember the name, Melvin Belli was there at his usual table.
Weather you liked him or not, you could feel his presence. I had all I could do not to go say Hi

PS. Thank you Nin for finding that info. & Thank you Mr. Bungle for posting it for us to read



Nachtsider, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:11 pm

You guys can’t possibly be suggesting that Joe Stine might be…

Right? Right? :suspect:



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:38 pm

I am sorry for stating a fact. In the beginning of the video, the man who is being interviewed is cleary barely taller than the car he is standing next to/leaning against. I do not understand how this is offensive.

Zab, what I meant in this post was not coming down on you or anyone. But some of these threads are interesting, and I love
to see the research done on this thread. I by not means am saying Joe Stine is guilty. But I’m interested in the case presentation
by The Foreigner and Tahoe on this one. SO, far…I found some of it interesting.
Also, alot of people nay a thread because of their own agenda, POI or theory. I would just like everyone to have a chance to tell their
thoughts, and show what they found, and then yes of course agree to disagree with them. But nice to give them a chance to post everything
first.
Also, I don’t think everyone here on Morf’s Board knows that you used to work with Claudia Stine, Pauls wife, I was hoping you could tell us a little about what years you two worked together, what type of job. Did you talk alot, where you friends out side of work? Are you still in connect. Also if you could share with us what she shared with you about Paul and the case. Totally appreciate it! Zam*

Hi Zam!

I will only give very limited information on here as I have (the website owner previously arrested for stalking and threatening) threatening me, and I have kids. I have already sent you much more detailed information which you should still have. I am also NOT going to give out info. on the type of job and where, as it would lead people to her, and she DOES NOT want that…AT ALL. You will notice, she is about the ONLY family member/spouse/significant other of a Z murder victim who PURPOSELY STAYED OUT OF THE LIMELIGHT. She did not want ANYTHING to do with the movie or any of the other crap that has gone on regarding this case.

Yes, I was Claudia’s friend outside of work, and the only one she trusted to watch her Siamese cat when she went away. She also adored my husband, who I think reminded her a lot of Paul. No, I am not in touch with her as much any more, which I am sad about. (I worked with her quite closely for a number of years.) However, it is one of those things where when we do talk, we "catch up" fast.

She never took off her wedding ring, which was gold, handmade and very prominent. it had two thin bands of gold at each end, and was very wide and tall, and in between was a fairly intricate carved piece with pine trees. That’s why the "pine tree" think has always intrigued me with Z; did Paul have a similar ring, maybe a smaller one with Pine trees on it? if it was not on him, did Z take that too? I have always wondered, but never asked her.

I always let her talk about things when she wanted too, and never asked a lot of questions. Suffice it to say, she is a private person…VERY much so, so I will say that this event devastated her to the core….they (she and Paul) wanted to have a family, and she chose to never remarry nor to have kids, even though she wanted them very badly. She was godmother and aunt, and adopted aunt to many kids, and was wonderful with them. She is extremely intelligent, and witty, with the biggest heart you can imagine. She cared for her elderly mother, and many elderly relatives and friends too, and still does….

She said that when she was informed of his murder in the middle of the night, it was as if "someone let all of the air out of her and she could not breathe." She had to Leave CA and make the rest of her life elsewhere.

Yes, we talked a lot, mostly about work and philopsophies on life in general, not specifically about her husband’s murder, except that I can share that she thought Z was seriously mentally ill, and was not specifically targeting her husband by "name"….meaning, she thought he was out to murder a cabbie, but did not know her husband.

My husband would always help her out when she asked, would fix small things for her and give her boxes of candy (she is 20 years or so older than us, so it was no issue…)…on her birthday, he would come into my work and go over and give her a box of candy and everyone would fuss over her as she was a person who asked for nothing and was and is always giving of herself.

She is the ONLY person I have NEVER bugged about smoking, because I understand why she cannot quit.

I appreciate what you are saying, and I am respectful, except that I think sometimes, when a "line is crossed", that should be pointed out.

For example, if I ever started a thread saying that I thought Claudia was Z because she stays out of the limelight, and knew all of the involved CA cities like the back of her hand, I would hope you would give me a "time out" for that…

I also have no regrets about being VERY vocal here when people where suggesting "playing detective" and confronting people, and trespassing and defacing property. IOW, what separates us as human beings from flatworms, for example, is our ability to use logic and reason and to make judgements and decisions, despite people having this extreme fear nowadays of being "overly judgemental"…

That’s just my $.02…

I love being here, and appreciate all of the research done by people who are much smarter and more talented than I am. When I have gotten "harsh" is when I feel a "line" has been crossed, or a law is/is about to be broken, or there is a major philosophical issue/tenet of humanity about to be violated…I am also very direct, in case y’all hadn’t noticed… :bball:



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:41 pm

Hi Tahoe,

Was he really 5’7"….I am 5’7 1/2", and I am quite a bit taller than he is in stocking feet relative to a car…Are you sure of that?



AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:14 pm

Zab

That was very interesting. Thank you for sharing that with us. It really reminds us of the damage that a killer does, how it goes on and on, long after the deed.

If this case is ever solved, it pleases me to think it will bring a small bit of satisfaction and closure to the families.



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:26 pm

You guys can’t possibly be suggesting that Joe Stine might be…

Right? Right? :suspect:

I’m with you, Nacht…I’m SO with you.



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:37 pm

Zabagliona
That was very touching and a Huge reminder that z did not kill or even meet all his victims.
I think it shouild point out to all of us the need to be "very carefull" not only in this case but in
all of our endeavours. Do or say the wrong thing or the right thing and the reprecussions travel out
like ripples in a pond.
Claudia sounds like an outstanding person I wish her the best.



Zamantha, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:47 pm

You guys can’t possibly be suggesting that Joe Stine might be…

Right? Right? :suspect:

I’m with you, Nacht…I’m SO with you.

Now Guys, NO one is suggesting anything. T.F. & Tahoe are just looking at things. Kinda like the LE had to do. You had to look at
things to weigh them in or out…… geeeeeeze



tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:00 am

My interest is primarily Joe living in Vallejo and who he may have been associated with.



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:21 am

My interest is primarily Joe living in Vallejo and who he may have been associated with.

It is a new direction that hasn’t been looked into. Definitely merits some further research.



AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:45 am

Every aspect should be looked in to.

You might theorize that if Joe Stine lived in Vallejo, and Z lived there, a basis for a grudge could be formed, with Z deciding to kill Joe’s brother.

Problem is every bit of available evidence shows that Zodiac hailed a random cab and had no idea who the driver was.



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:57 am

Problem is every bit of available evidence shows that Zodiac hailed a random cab and had no idea who the driver was.

I can’t think of any evidence that shows this? It has been argued on boards time and time again but the theory that
Z knew Stine has not been debunked, imo.



tahoe27, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:56 am

I wanted to add I think TF does bring up some interesting things that I feel at this site–being private, gives a little more leeway to discuss other possibilities. I think Zam said it well above. There are things I question and am curious to know more.



Nachtsider, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:03 am

My interest is primarily Joe living in Vallejo and who he may have been associated with.

Ah, okay. Phew.



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:32 am

Problem is every bit of available evidence shows that Zodiac hailed a random cab and had no idea who the driver was.

I can’t think of any evidence that shows this? It has been argued on boards time and time again but the theory that
Z knew Stine has not been debunked, imo.

I’m with AK here…where’s even the slightest bit of evidence that Zodiac knew Stine? This is heading in a Graysmith/Darlene Ferrin direction.



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:08 am

…….. I by not means am saying Joe Stine is guilty. But I’m interested in the case presentation
by The Foreigner and Tahoe on this one. SO, far…I found some of it interesting.
Also, alot of people nay a thread because of their own agenda, POI or theory. I would just like everyone to have a chance to tell their
thoughts, and show what they found, and then yes of course agree to disagree with them.

Sorry Zam, but on this one the idea of comparing Joe’s height, weight, description with Zodiac seems in bad taste and to my mind completely baseless. Unless I have missed some compelling piece of info somewhere?

I agree that naysaying often stops interesting exchanges though. Maybe the naysayers should just start a parallel "why it ain’t so" thread for each topic(?). That might help balance things out maybe.



, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:05 am

If this case is ever solved, it pleases me to think it will bring a small bit of satisfaction and closure to the families.

Absolutely, AK!!!! And that is why you and I and everyone else is here (I hope)… :heart:



Azazel, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:46 am

Its the Vallejo, air force, mechanic, looks like the composite, injecting himself part, knows the victim and having significant dates connected to the case that makes at least some people wonder. Aint that hard to figure out.
And that someone would be automaticlly cleared based on that they are not allowed to be looked upon is silly.
I think Joe would rather have people looking for the Zodiac from any angle then putting people in the "cant be allowed to be looked at category.".
I really dont think dead people are concerned with people looking at their life.
If Kain wasnt allowed to be looked at as a suspect then Abels murder wouldnt be solved.
Since the Zodiac aint been caught doesnt that mean that all the suspects but one (perhaps none) is wrongfully "accuses" of the Zodiac crimes?
Accused is when someone is saying "He is the Zodiac". The things we do around here is speculate. Ray Accused O´Hare and co for example.
If you dont like us speculating, then head on to something that you can contribute to instead.
Its naive to think you know everything about the victims.
I did alot of things my relatives knew nothing about. They have another picture of me. And that goes for all people.
To some extent or some degree. We all have our secrets.



AK Wilks, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:01 am

Problem is every bit of available evidence shows that Zodiac hailed a random cab and had no idea who the driver was.

I can’t think of any evidence that shows this? It has been argued on boards time and time again but the theory that
Z knew Stine has not been debunked, imo.

Stine was on his way to a fare when he saw "Z" and picked him up.

How could "Z" have known Stine was there and headed that way?

All evidence shows he simply hailed a cab. He never says STINE in a letter.

I have yet to see any evidence how Z could have known and got that particular cab – how on Earth would he know Stine would be at that street at that time?



Azazel, Subject: Re: KPIX Eyewitness News October 22, 1969 Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:16 am

Paul could have been selected by chance. By opportunity.
If Z spotted Paul (and had a grudge) he could have taken the opportunity.
And by not mentioning Stine in the letters, he would lead the police to think it was random.
Perhaps he lived in that area. Somewhere around Washington/Cherry.
Perhaps not, but is possible.


“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969