Just my 2 cents, but I think z was NOT familiar with that location where Stine was shot, and did not live there. In the logbook, Z told Stine to go to Washington & Maple. Stine went there, and for some unknown reason, went down a block further, possibly because Z told him to go one block further, maybe because they saw somebody. When Z writes the letter taking responsibility for Stine’s murder, he does NOT reference Washington & Cherry where the murder happened, but rather Washington & Maple(same as the logbook). To me, this points to Z not knowing the name of the street where the murder actually happened, and thus, not being from around there. This to me would rule out guys like X in my mind,not that I have ever thought he was zodiac.

For some unknown reason, Z had Stine go to that scene at Washinton & Maple. He had pre-selected it for some reason. Maybe somebody lived around there that he wanted to scare or shock? Maybe he was house sitting? Maybe he just liked the quick escape to the presidio if something went wrong? No matter the reason, to me, it shows he did not know Cherry st. Further supporting this in my mind, is that when the crime was over, and he walked onto Jackson, he headed right back towards Washington & Maple. He had some reason to go to that area.

Bam! Just when you think you’re convinced of something, someone comes along and makes a salient point that throws a pretty big monkey wrench into your thinking….

I get to places where I think it’s safe to disregard most of the letter content as silly, misdirectional gobbledygook, then there is a point made about some phrase like "…over by Washington St. + Maple St. last night…." It does smack as the phrasing of someone who is not tied to the neighborhood in any way. For a long time, I thought Zodiac had a current military ID in 1969 and stashed his car somewhere in the Presidio, hopped into that area, and drove away unscathed. His ID would have gotten him onto and off the base without suspicion. (Or was it an open base back then, as most US military posts were in the Vietnam era?) Maybe he parked his car nearer the Maple St. access, and that’s why he knew that street. Maybe when the cab got to Washington and Maple he told Stine, "Go another block" instead of "Go up to Cherry, please." So maybe you’re right Zodiac had only scouted out the neighborhood because inside the Presidio there was good cover for his car in that neck of the woods.

Anyway……. back to having absolutely no certainty at all about this case!

Could we possibly take it one step further? The use of S.F. as in "the SF police could have caught me….". No %$#@ Mr. Zodiac? You sure it wasn’t the LA police. Always seemed odd to me that he used S.F. Possibly because he wasn’t a resident of SF?

Norse Stated…..

"I think Welsh makes a good point regardless of whether we buy the KQ theory or not: why did AP decide to follow what he now knew was an armed and dangerous suspect ON FOOT? A) it’s much safer to head north on Cherry, looking for a suspect, inside a police car and B) it’s much FASTER to do so (presumably you’d want to catch the guy, who left the scene not long ago).

It would be safer from AP’s personal safety, not necessarily more efficient way to search when having to look into alcoves around cars, etc.

Some further points:

* Fouke never says that he encountered Pelissetti WALKING on Cherry:

"So we proceeded to the next block, which was Jackson and Cherry. Turned southbound on Cherry Street, saw Armond Pelissetti, one of the officers who had responded directly to the scene.

"The fact that he mentions only AP and not his partner MAY indicate that he was alone (though not necessarily), but it doesn’t indicate that AP was on foot. AP may have been in the car. His partner may have remained at the crime scene to wait for the coroner et al. "

AP would not take away the lone cop car at the scene, nor would AP and Peda vacate a crime scene. One has to stay. One staying negates the 2 of them being the cops that encounter Z. We already have 2 cops encountering Z, so that part is covered[, not only Foukes but Zelm’s as well

" There is an undeniable and – to my thinking – rather strange discrepancy between what Fouke and AP have to say regarding their encounter. Fouke claims they had a "little conversation" in which the original description of the subject was discussed, and which ended with Fouke exclaiming "F**k, I just drove past the guy!" or words to that effect. AP on the other hand states clearly that Fouke never said that he had passed anyone. Again, this discrepancy is strange – it’s blatant and obvious, not something one can easily write off as being caused by faded memories or what have you. Seems like that to me, at least.
AP’s account of his movements after having talked to the kids and ascertained it was murder and not a mugging…makes little sense. Firstly, I have a major problem with him doing his whole song and dance, including talking to the dog walker, BEFORE running into Fouke on Cherry St (and this is what he claims happened). Secondly, if we assume he didn’t meet Fouke when he first walked north on Cherry, following the killer (going by what the kids told him), why did he turn east on Jackson St? Why? The kids told him the killer had escaped north on Cherry, heading for the Presidio. This seems indisputable, whatever else may be disputed here. The most obvious escape route would have taken him, the killer, into the park area through the entrance point at the end of Cherry. It’s glaringly obvious. But AP goes east on Cherry, ignoring the most obvious entrance point. Why?"

Like I said earlier when the video came out, it raised many new questions that hadn’t been there before. I stated it’s sad that 44+ years later there are any remaining questions between anything Fouke or AP did. Easy to walk them both through their timelines and point out to each what does and doesn’t work. Either way you look at AP heading east on Jackson warrants the question why? If he does it before he meets up with Fouke (which really throws a monkey wrench in new time delays for dispatch getting the 2nd notice out there), AP says he made a decision and headed east on Jackson. Well what drove that decision? If he sees a dog walker, as he has always stated, coming down Maple, heading north, from direction of Washington, then the dog walker is just that. An older guy walking his dog, can’t be Z. End of that part of the story.
However, if he see’s Fouke before he goes east on Jackson, and supposedly Fouke says nothing to AP about his encounter with Z, then AP needs to really be questioned on this decision to go east on Jackson. If Fouke hasn’t said anything to him, why would AP head east on Jackson, when he knows this is where Fouke just came from? Wouldn’t that be the most obvious direction not to go? Fouke has already covered it. You meant to say east on Jackson right? Well we know in hindsight that Z’s intention was never to enter Presidio from Cherry, but of course AP wouldn’t know that. But also, AP would have no reason to think killer would be heading into Presidio. In fact a lot of reasons, mainly staff at Presidio, for AP to think at time, that killer wouldn’t head towards Presidio.

"The kids had told me that whoever had done this crime left the cab, went out the door, seemed to be wiping the cab down, reaching into the cab and then ambling or walking down Cherry Street in a northerly direction, kind of towards the Presidio. I walked that way myself, I did not run because there are innumerable alcoves and parked cars, so I went down following every technique I knew so I didn’t get my head blown off. Got down to the corner of Jackson Street, had to make a choice. I was on the east side of the street, so I turned right to the east, went up in that direction. I couldn’t see anybody in either direction, nor could I see anybody scaling a wall into the Presidio.
He was on the east side of the street, so he turned right on to the east, went up in that direction? What? Why didn’t he proceed straight north, checking out the entrance point – where anybody would have assumed a killer making a run for it in the direction of the park would have headed? I’m sorry, but that makes very little sense."

Again without seeing Fouke first, then it’s just a decision point. He has 3 ways to go, he chooses east on Jackson. Can’t really question that. He has no reason to think Z would be heading into park area at all. But it does raise yet another question..Where was Z? Cause if AP heads towards Maple first on south side of Jackson going east, and then comes back on Jackson still on south side, where has Z been? I have an answer that covers it, but I’m not sure AP went east on Jackson, before he runs into Fouke, but it’s possible, and it’s possible that Z was in hiding at a certain residence on north side of Jackson. but this raises yet another question, if AP heads towards Maple on south side of Jackson, and then turns around to head back to Cherry again on south side of Jackson, then AP hasn’t really cleared Jackson at all. He never crossed the street and searched the north side of Jackson. I can see why he wouldn’t cross Jackson if he had already spoken with Fouke, but without that happening first, then a cop would always cross the street and clear the north side as well.

Tahoe Stated…..

"From what I gather the kids say Zodiac was on Cherry walking in the direction of the Presidio. How would they know his intention was to go into it?

Also, we don’t know when Zodiac became aware the police were notified. Did he hear sirens? Did he not know until he passed Fouke and Zelms? If Zodiac had parked his car near Maple or in that general area…it would make sense he was headed in that direction. And when he saw them, he got the heck out of dodge! (so-to-speak) It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he observed from afar and later had to come back for his car.

Fouke is the one here who didn’t come clean to LE about Zodiac allegedly walking up to a house on Jackson. And he admitted that on camera."

True Tahoe as far as what he has been admitted. We know Fouke never writes a script at all if Z doesn’t say, "that cops stopped him that night". So I think folks called Fouke’s in to write something, they had to have something, and it had to also cover why the search went into the park". Maybe Fouke’s says at the time he last saw Z at 3712 Jackson, and the higher up’s say we can’t do that Don. We have to have a reason why the search went into the park, more than just you assumed that’s where he was headed, even though that’s the truth of the matter.
Or Don having read all the news items, in the week’s that passed after 10/11/69, maybe even the kids statements that Z was headed towards the park, and Don decides on his own he’ll just tell everyone he saw Z at corner of Maple and Z turned towards park. That would also eliminate Don’s great assumption, which I think to Don was his giant mistake.
They already had to deal with the known main issue of whether cops spoke with Z or not, that was bad enough. If the word had come out that the entire search was based on nothing more than a cop’s assumption, then the public would never buy the cops answer that he didn’t speak with Z.
I liked in the video the very last question the interviewer asked Fouke in reference to seeing Z at 3712 Jackson, "Well why didn’t you write that in your script"? Foukes could barely get the words out, "Well I thought all these year’s that’s what I wrote"…..It was such a weak answer…..C’mon Don you already admitted to your assumption, it’s ok now, to say well I had to write it that way cause we didn”t want everyone to know that the park search was done on my assumption alone. But he just couldn’t quite get it out when asked. he about choked on his own words. You can’t sell that one anymore Don. And if he admits to the assumption he made back then you know the next question would be, "Don, why didn’t you just turn around at Cherry and head right back to where you last saw the killer, it was only seconds since you last saw him"? Oops another boo boo.
To me one thing Fouke’s actions does prove is that Z never went into the park…..Not enough time for Z, to get from 3712 Jackson to coverage in the park before Fouke is at Pacific and the back end of Maple.
I’ve often wondered how many phone calls came in that night to SFPD from PH residents wondering what the hell was going on, and is it possible that Z, if he had a place to go to that night, may have called in under the guise of a resident?

Just watched a KQ video on Youtube. I realize he’s 92 years old in that video, and probably has a slower speech cadence than he had 50 years ago, but when you hear him speak, you wonder about Hartnell’s description of a "precise cadence. Not an accent, but a very measured way of speaking." Or am I just hearing what I want to hear?

Looks to be a tall guy, as well.

No Wolf, I thought exactly the same when I watched the clip you mentioned. I assume the clip you refer to is the advert in which Kjell is promoting ‘Bank of the West’, a bank owned by himself. Clip can be seen here: http://youtu.be/V8RfDK3tUpY

"KQ looks very thin as well."

He does in a lot of more recent photographs. But this one, taken in the mid 60s, seems to show otherwise…. (Kjell is furthest to the left in the photograph)

Here a better quality (larger) image of the same photo…

Left to Right (standing): Kjell Qvale, Juan Manuel Fangio, Stirling Moss, Denise, Pedro Rodriguez, Innes Ireland, Ronnie Bucknum

Norse said: "There is an undeniable and – to my thinking – rather strange discrepancy between what Fouke and AP have to say regarding their encounter. Fouke claims they had a "little conversation" in which the original description of the subject was discussed, and which ended with Fouke exclaiming "F**k, I just drove past the guy!" or words to that effect. AP on the other hand states clearly that Fouke never said that he had passed anyone. Again, this discrepancy is strange – it’s blatant and obvious, not something one can easily write off as being caused by faded memories or what have you. Seems like that to me, at least."

I make that point earlier on in the thread and say I think Armond Pelissetti is not admitting to the fact that Don tells him ‘Oh Sh*t, that was the suspect" because if he does he knows that he will then have to admit that this is why he proceeded to Jackson & Maple, because Don had told him that’s where he saw the suspect. And if he admits that, then the inevitable question Armond will be asked is "was he still there when you arrived there?"

Kjell was there when he arrived and IMO was not walking a dog but was, as Mike states Armond admitted to in a taped phone conversation, on the same property as Don Fouke has just told him he saw him going toward. Armond is said to have admitted in a taped phone conversation that Kjell didn’t have a dog with him and was, in fact, ‘On a driveway at Maple Street, just standing there.’ So I theorise that it was Armond who Zodiac refers to in his letter when he says "p.s. 2 cops pulled a goof abot 3 min after I left the cab. I was walking downthe hill to the park when this cop car pulled up + one of them called me over."

There’s a clue in Zodiac’s choice of words here also because If it’s Fouke and Zelms he is talking about as the two cops that pulled a goof then they wouldn’t need to ‘Call him over’ as Z states because Z is on the North side of the street ( On the right hand sidewalk of the street from Fouke’s perspective as he approaches Maple) and Don is driving up Jackson in the right side lane so if he pulls up next to Z then there’s no need to call him over from anywhere because he’s already going to be right there. But….. If it’s Armond Pelissetti that, acting upon the info given to him by his colleague Don Fouke on Cherry, dashes back to Maple intersection and see’s the white male Don describes still standing on the same property (this time on the gated driveway) that Don told him he saw him going toward, then this would require Z being ‘called over’ because Armond would be driving down Jackson, on the right side of the street and stops at Maple intersection which means he’s on the other side of the street from 3712 Jackson and would therefore, seeing a white male standing alone on the driveway, call him out of the drive and over to him. T

And that’s why I believe A.P is denying Fouke told him he’d seen the suspect at 3712 Jackson because Armond is not admitting he saw the white male at or on the drive of 3712, so he’s not likely to admit that Don told him that’s where the suspect was either.

And I also notice another little ‘Tell’ in the documentary ‘This is the Zodiac Speaking.’ Don Fouke has always claimed that he does not know if his partner that night, Eric Zelms, saw the white male suspect that he acknowledges seeing on Jackson who, when he spots Don’s ‘Prowl car’, turns into the entrance way of a house. Don claims Eric may have been scoping out the other side of the street when he himself sees the white guy shuffling down Jackson and onto the steps of 3712. That claim, like so many other claims made by D.F & A.P, has never made sense to me. I mean Don himself, when asked how fast he was driving, says "Well, until I saw him probably about 35 or 40MPH on a 25MPH Street, slowed down as we passed him, I don’t know, still rolling, saw that it was a white male…. step on the gas." So Don slows to a crawl and Eric doesn’t wonder why?

Anyway, the ‘tell’ I spotted in the documentary that reveals Fouke knows Eric saw the suspect is in Don’s own words. In the documentary Don describes the white male he sees in vivid detail, and after doing so, states "The initial radio description of the suspect was that of a black male, 5 ’10, or something like that. Seeing that it was a white male, in an affluent neighbourhood walking along the street, we didn’t think it was the suspect so we proceeded to the next block which was Jackson & Cherry"

We Don? I thought Eric didn’t see the white guy?

I said, even before I had realised this ‘tell’ in the documentary that I think Fouke is lying and knows full well that Eric saw the white male but that I don’t hold it against Fouke for lying here because in my opinion, his motive for doing so isn’t devious and his intent here is simply to protect the ‘rookie’ cop who he knows will be asked questions about that night. He and Armond are, IMO, complacent is concealing the fact that they are both aware that it was Kjell Qvale out there that night, and as the experienced officer, Fouke acts to protect the young rookie and tells him that they will just simply say he was not looking that direction.

And Bayarea60s:

As you can see from the feedback on this thread, the overwhelming majority of members seem to agree that the point I raise do have merit to them, even if they don’t necessarily agree with the idea that K Q was Zodiac. I have absolutely no problem or issue with you trying to deconstruct the points I raise and try and discredit them, that’s part of the point of having a message board but in your attempts to discredit what I am saying you are making false statements such as "In order to believe what you say here, you’d have to agree that Fouke is also confused, because he saw Pelissetti on foot." When I ask you when and where does Don say this, you then give an answer along the lines of "Well…He doesn’t say that directly, but he implies it by saying he only spoke to Armond which implies Armond was not in the vehicle with Peda." So which is it, does he only imply it, or say it directly?

And as for your answer stating: "It would be safer from AP’s personal safety, not necessarily more efficient way to search when having to look into alcoves around cars, etc."

That is the most ridiculous claim I think I’ve heard from you so far! You think that Armond, or any SFPD Officer for that matter, is going to choose efficiency over personal safety? What your neglecting to take into consideration is the obvious question: what happens if the suspect is concealed within one of the alcoves out of sight under cover of darkness as Armond is approacing ? Who’s got the advantage and likely to shoot first? Yes of course, Armond’s thought process would have been "Well, here goes… I am very likely to be shot and killed if I walk down this street totally exposed to any hidden gunman in an alcove or ducked behind a parked vehicle but at least it’s a more efficient way to go about searching for the suspect. And if I do approach an alcove and the suspect is hidden there in the darkness then I’ll get shot in the head but at least it will be efficiently."

From what I gather the kids say Zodiac was on Cherry walking in the direction of the Presidio. How would they know his intention was to go into it?

Also, we don’t know when Zodiac became aware the police were notified. Did he hear sirens? Did he not know until he passed Fouke and Zelms? If Zodiac had parked his car near Maple or in that general area…it would make sense he was headed in that direction. And when he saw them, he got the heck out of dodge! (so-to-speak) It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he observed from afar and later had to come back for his car.

Fouke is the one here who didn’t come clean to LE about Zodiac allegedly walking up to a house on Jackson. And he admitted that on camera.

Tahoe come on now, your an intelligent women. You know a siren is called a siren for a reason, namely, it’s very loud with it’s purpose being to alert other people to something, in this case, other road users and pedestrians. Armond admits that when he got the radio call that "We responded to a radio call, told us that a cab driver was being robbed and/or possibly assaulted at the corner of corner of Cherry and Washington Streets in Pacific Heights. We, fortunately, were very close and responded to that corner and were able to do so with red lights and siren at 9:55 at night and got there very quickly." Also, we know that Zodiac hasn’t even got as far as Maple when he is spotted by Don, and we know that at this point, Armond is on the scene one block away. And Zodiac claims that this encounter happened ‘3 Mins after I left the cab.’

Unless Zodiac was deaf, then he must have heard A.P approaching. As for Fouke and Zelms, Zodiac may have decided to go down Cherry and Jackson to avoid the oncoming Pelissetti on Washington Street only to encounter Fouke coming up Jackson. Fouke doesn’t tell us if he, like Armond, is making a huge song and dance of himself by switching his emergency light’s and siren on as he drives toward Maple intersection so maybe Zodiac doesn’t realise it’s a cop car until it comes close enough for him to make out the light bar on the roof and realise it’s actually it’s police.

I would agree that if Fouke did have his siren on then Zodiac would likely have seen/heard him approaching from a much further distance and would likely have ducked into one of the houses much further up the hill more toward Cherry St to allow Fouke to pass by before emerging to continue down the hill. And so, I think in light of that, that Don probably hadn’t activated his lights and siren and that would be why Zodiac only takes measures to avoid Don when Don’s patrol vehicle is in close enough proximity for him to realised that it’s a patrol car.

Don says he was doing approx. 35MPH on a 25MPH street, that’s only slightly over the limit and a safe enough speed, in my opinion, to travel without having his lights activated. If he said he was doing 60 up Jackson Street then I’d fully expect him to have his lights and siren on to alert and deter any potential pedestrian in the area from stepping out to cross the street. And thinking about it, and this is of course the British Police I am using as an example, I have never seen a British police car doing just slightly over the speed limit with it’s blue lights and siren on and if I did, would deem it very odd. They are usually going 50 plus if they have their blue lights and siren on. Anyway, Zodiac can’t avoid them all that night because who knows, maybe he was originally intending to walk along Washington Back to Maple (The cab was parked on Washington after all, not Cherry) and, hearing Armond coming from that direction, is forced to now take Cherry route. He may avoid one responding officer doing that, but because he is so arrogant and takes time to rip Paul’s shirt and wipe the cab down etc, he now has police responding from several directions and avoids Armond on Washington, only to walk directly into Don and Eric on Jackson.

In my opinion, Zodiac’s choice to ignore Cherry entrance to the Presidio not only speaks volumes as to his where he was heading that night, but it also led to his being seen, stopped, and subsequently identified not only by Armond and/or Don, but also the nameless eight year old witness who reports clearly indicate ‘Identified’ someone that night as being possibly responsible for the murder of Paul Stine. That someone was, IMO, Kjell Qvale.

Just my 2 cents, but I think z was NOT familiar with that location where Stine was shot, and did not live there. In the logbook, Z told Stine to go to Washington & Maple. Stine went there, and for some unknown reason, went down a block further, possibly because Z told him to go one block further, maybe because they saw somebody. When Z writes the letter taking responsibility for Stine’s murder, he does NOT reference Washington & Cherry where the murder happened, but rather Washington & Maple(same as the logbook). To me, this points to Z not knowing the name of the street where the murder actually happened, and thus, not being from around there. This to me would rule out guys like X in my mind,not that I have ever thought he was zodiac.

For some unknown reason, Z had Stine go to that scene at Washinton & Maple. He had pre-selected it for some reason. Maybe somebody lived around there that he wanted to scare or shock? Maybe he was house sitting? Maybe he just liked the quick escape to the presidio if something went wrong? No matter the reason, to me, it shows he did not know Cherry st. Further supporting this in my mind, is that when the crime was over, and he walked onto Jackson, he headed right back towards Washington & Maple. He had some reason to go to that area.

Zodiac appears to not know the name of the actual street where he shot Stine, referring to it only as ‘Over by Washington & Maple’ yes, but isn’t that exactly what you would do if you lived close by and knew the area well? You wouldn’t want to appear to give away that your local to that area by reeling off street names and places because if you do, then it becomes clear that you have an intimate knowledge of that area.

He knew that Maple has an entrance through to the Presidio, because that’s where he was heading to escape most people assume. Ok, lets go with that idea. First question I have is, how does he know it? I am not local and for months after I got interested in this case, I assumed that Spruce Street was his escape route to J.K playground because I did not know, because it isn’t marked on a map, that Maple (or Cherry for that matter) has a walkway though to West Pacific. So how would Z know? He would have had to have been there to know this, or was himself local.

And if Zodiac did pick the area because it offered a quick and easy escape into the presidio if something should go wrong, then he’s a bit of an idiot really because something did go very wrong that night, the cops responded and arrived at the scene only seconds or a minute or two at most after he’s left and yet, he ignores the Cherry entrance that allows him quick and instant access to the place where he was intending to go anyway using Maple entrance? Now if he’s picked that location for it’s availability to escape into the Presidio, I cannot believe that he would only have checked it out and known that Maple had an entrance to the Presidio but failed to notice that Cherry did also. Even if he wasn’t intending to ever go to Cherry, he surely would want to know the area well enough to give him alternate escapes should something go wrong? And then finally, ‘The Park.’

As we know, the police responded so quick that night that Zodiac didn’t even get one block away and police were there to see him turn toward a house. The response was rapid, and seconds after Don passes him and finds out the suspect is white, he states that he proceeded directly to the Presidio and Julius Kahn area saying "Our reasoning, well, my reasoning on that was because turning down Maple street leads through the presidio wall and directly into Julius Kahn Playground." So they got there, what, a minute or two at the most after passing him on Jackson Street? The area is quickly surrounded and searched tree by tree and bush by bush and, as Chief Lee says "Zodiac is a liar, he wasn’t anywhere in the vicinity of that park when we searched it." Yet he was somewhere close by because he accurately descries the search effort. So where is he situated so that he can clearly see them, but they cannot see him?

I think Welsh makes a good point regardless of whether we buy the KQ theory or not: why did AP decide to follow what he now knew was an armed and dangerous suspect ON FOOT? A) it’s much safer to head north on Cherry, looking for a suspect, inside a police car and B) it’s much FASTER to do so (presumably you’d want to catch the guy, who left the scene not long ago).

Some further points:

* Fouke never says that he encountered Pelissetti WALKING on Cherry:

So we proceeded to the next block, which was Jackson and Cherry. Turned southbound on Cherry Street, saw Armond Pelissetti, one of the officers who had responded directly to the scene.

The fact that he mentions only AP and not his partner MAY indicate that he was alone (though not necessarily), but it doesn’t indicate that AP was on foot. AP may have been in the car. His partner may have remained at the crime scene to wait for the coroner et al.

* There is an undeniable and – to my thinking – rather strange discrepancy between what Fouke and AP have to say regarding their encounter. Fouke claims they had a "little conversation" in which the original description of the subject was discussed, and which ended with Fouke exclaiming "F**k, I just drove past the guy!" or words to that effect. AP on the other hand states clearly that Fouke never said that he had passed anyone. Again, this discrepancy is strange – it’s blatant and obvious, not something one can easily write off as being caused by faded memories or what have you. Seems like that to me, at least.

* AP’s account of his movements after having talked to the kids and ascertained it was murder and not a mugging…makes little sense. Firstly, I have a major problem with him doing his whole song and dance, including talking to the dog walker, BEFORE running into Fouke on Cherry St (and this is what he claims happened). Secondly, if we assume he didn’t meet Fouke when he first walked north on Cherry, following the killer (going by what the kids told him), why did he turn east on Jackson St? Why? The kids told him the killer had escaped north on Cherry, heading for the Presidio. This seems indisputable, whatever else may be disputed here. The most obvious escape route would have taken him, the killer, into the park area through the entrance point at the end of Cherry. It’s glaringly obvious. But AP goes east on Cherry, ignoring the most obvious entrance point. Why?

The kids had told me that whoever had done this crime left the cab, went out the door, seemed to be wiping the cab down, reaching into the cab and then ambling or walking down Cherry Street in a northerly direction, kind of towards the Presidio. I walked that way myself, I did not run because there are innumerable alcoves and parked cars, so I went down following every technique I knew so I didn’t get my head blown off. Got down to the corner of Jackson Street, had to make a choice. I was on the east side of the street, so I turned right to the east, went up in that direction. I couldn’t see anybody in either direction, nor could I see anybody scaling a wall into the Presidio.

He was on the east side of the street, so he turned right on to the east, went up in that direction? What? Why didn’t he proceed straight north, checking out the entrance point – where anybody would have assumed a killer making a run for it in the direction of the park would have headed? I’m sorry, but that makes very little sense.

Well in regards to the section I highlighted: If Armond, as he seems to suggest, doesn’t see Fouke until he’s on his way back from Maple and is on Cherry Street as Fouke pulls up, then this scenario would see the following being the case:

Armond encounters, and converses with, a man walking his dog on Maple Street. Then he turns and goes back up the hill and as he is walking up the hill and just about to turn onto Cherry, Don Fouke is arriving at Maple Street (we know it must be around this point because Armond is said to still be on Cherry when Don comes around the corner from Jackson). Where is the man walking his dog? Has he vanished into thin air? Fouke has arrived at Maple seconds after Armond has left there in this scenario and Fouke see’s no such man with any dog anywhere. He does, however, see a white male coming down the North side of Jackson Street, a white male that Armond must have also himself missed when he was walking up that very street seconds prior to Don arriving there. Everyone missing everyone else, people vanishing into thin air, suspects only visible to certain officers and not to others, it’s all happening!

Of course, there never were two white males that night, one with a dog on Maple and the other shuffling alone down Jackson, its one and the same person. He had no dog when Armonf sees him, nor is he on Maple street, but was on a driveway to a house where Fouke said he was last seen heading toward. It’s in Armonds interest, obviously, to claim that he encounters Fouke as he comes back from Maple because he is not admitting that he saw this same male on the drive, and by placing himself almost back at the cab having come from Maple by the time he sees Fouke, he’s effectively eliminating even the possibility that he could encounter this man on that driveway because he hasn’t seen Don for Don to tell him of his sighting until after he’s already left that area and seen a ‘dog walker.’

Bayarea60s said: ". When thinking of KQ and LB, I think of the car that Z was driving, more specifically the tires. Since an important element for Z would be to make sure he gets away cleanly, I can’t see a guy like KQ driving a car with mis-matched tires."

Of course, Kjell would not have any motive or reason to drive an old car with mismatching tyres on it, would he? Ken Narlow stated: "The two front tyres were different, which was unusual. Most people buy a set of tyres or at least in pairs but here we had two tyres that were distinctly different on the front of the vehicle which led us to believe it was an older model car (owned) by someone who probably couldn’t afford to keep up the maintenance on the vehicle."

Now why would a serial killer that is really rich and well known in San Francisco as a successful auto-mobile importer want to give the impression that he doesn’t have much money and drives an older model vehicle with mismatched front tyres? Hmmm.

From what I gather the kids say Zodiac was on Cherry walking in the direction of the Presidio. How would they know his intention was to go into it?

Also, we don’t know when Zodiac became aware the police were notified. Did he hear sirens? Did he not know until he passed Fouke and Zelms? If Zodiac had parked his car near Maple or in that general area…it would make sense he was headed in that direction. And when he saw them, he got the heck out of dodge! (so-to-speak) It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he observed from afar and later had to come back for his car.

Fouke is the one here who didn’t come clean to LE about Zodiac allegedly walking up to a house on Jackson. And he admitted that on camera.

Tahoe come on now, your an intelligent women. You know a siren is called a siren for a reason, namely, it’s very loud with it’s purpose being to alert other people to something, in this case, other road users and pedestrians.

Gee…thanks.

What I am saying is, at that point, there may not have been sirens…yet. When the kids called in, they said he was already walking up the street towards the Presidio. He could have turned down Jackson before the sirens began.

From what I gather the kids say Zodiac was on Cherry walking in the direction of the Presidio. How would they know his intention was to go into it?

Also, we don’t know when Zodiac became aware the police were notified. Did he hear sirens? Did he not know until he passed Fouke and Zelms? If Zodiac had parked his car near Maple or in that general area…it would make sense he was headed in that direction. And when he saw them, he got the heck out of dodge! (so-to-speak) It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he observed from afar and later had to come back for his car.

Fouke is the one here who didn’t come clean to LE about Zodiac allegedly walking up to a house on Jackson. And he admitted that on camera.

Tahoe come on now, your an intelligent women. You know a siren is called a siren for a reason, namely, it’s very loud with it’s purpose being to alert other people to something, in this case, other road users and pedestrians.

Gee…thanks.

What I am saying is, at that point, there may not have been sirens…yet. When the kids called in, they said he was already walking up the street towards the Presidio. He could have turned down Jackson before the sirens began.

They didn’t tell the 911 operator that the guy had walked off to my knowledge, they were informing him/her that the crime was in progress. Armond says that he responded to a radio call that a cab driver was being robbed and/or possibly assaulted at Washington & Cherry Streets. He further states that "The kids had told me that whoever had done this crime, left the cab, seemed to be leaning into the cab, walked around the cab and appeared to be wiping the exterior and then ambling, or walking away, down Cherry street kinda toward the presidio."