After watching the first season of The Hunt for the Zodiac Killer, my interest was peaked in looking at the timelines and possibilities. In two of the episodes they spoke a great deal about the Peek Through The Pines postcard.
However, I cannot understand why they did this with such non credible information. From what I can tell it was brought up that …
1. in 1999, a former detective in the case had admitted to forging the postcard. http://www.zodiackiller.com/Lass.html
—–now I’m not sure why a detective in the case would have reason to do so. Does anyone else here have any information on this admission?
2. The postcard was delivered March 22, 1971. and was "assumed" to be Donna Lass (I’m not sure how that assumption came to be).
…..problem is that it shows 12 victims over 8 months later. July 26th of 1970, The killer had 13 victims. And Oct 5th still 13 victims. This shows that a repetitive mention of 13 shows his certainty.
A lot of curious minds wonder what this says about Donna Lass since the victim count did not change on Oct 5th (almost a week after her disappearance). I’ll discuss my theory on that over in the proper channel on Donna Lass in the unconfirmed victims section. But a quick spoiler to that post… How could this be the same victim count? I believe that at the time he sent that postcard in ( https://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2017/11 … ter-15.jpg )…. Donna Lass was STILL alive.
I agree: viewtopic.php?f=78&t=168&start=20
I’d also have to go back at look at old threads at ZodiacKiller.com’s mb, but I’m pretty sure that detective was supposed to be Harvey Hines. I seem to recall, having considered the time frame, that it couldn’t have been Harvey though. I’ll look into it tomorrow.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
I agree: http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.p … 8&start=20
I’d also have to go back at look at old threads at ZodiacKiller.com’s mb, but I’m pretty sure that detective was supposed to be Harvey Hines. I seem to recall, having considered the time frame, that it couldn’t have been Harvey though. I’ll look into it tomorrow.
cool thanks.
Harvey Hines never admitted to forging the Pines card. He may have ‘forged’ a postcard, but not the postcard.
Harvey Hines believed the Pines Card was real and followed its leads. The only thing Harvey Hines did was create an alternative to the Pines card. Here is what he said in his 120 page report and here is his alternative Pines card.
"After studying the card, I drove to Nordin, located on old Highway 40, north of Lake Tahoe, and found the SIERRA CLUB. I learned the club was not called the Sierra Club. It was named the Claire Tappan Lodge and it was a private club for Sierra Club members only. I believed if I followed the directions on the postcard I would find Donna Lass’ grave. I believe she was buried near the Sierra Club and most likely on the Donner Ski Ranch. I would later have the pictures of the Sierra Club developed. Then using a copy of Zodiac’s card, I cut out the phrases he had pasted on his card. Using these phrases, I overpasted them on the copy of the Sierra Club picture. It was striking similar to the original card."
The Pines card isn’t claiming 12 victims on March 22nd 1971 or September 6th 1970, because "sought" is in the past tense. Had this been a fake card, a hoaxer making a mistake would logically just declare 12. The addition of sought indicates a time predating the disappearance of Lass.
Harvey Hines never admitted to forging the Pines card. He may have ‘forged’ a postcard, but not the postcard.
Harvey Hines believed the Pines Card was real and followed its leads. The only thing Harvey Hines did was create an alternative to the Pines card. Here is what he said in his 120 page report and here is his alternative Pines card.
"After studying the card, I drove to Nordin, located on old Highway 40, north of Lake Tahoe, and found the SIERRA CLUB. I learned the club was not called the Sierra Club. It was named the Claire Tappan Lodge and it was a private club for Sierra Club members only. I believed if I followed the directions on the postcard I would find Donna Lass’ grave. I believe she was buried near the Sierra Club and most likely on the Donner Ski Ranch. I would later have the pictures of the Sierra Club developed. Then using a copy of Zodiac’s card, I cut out the phrases he had pasted on his card. Using these phrases, I overpasted them on the copy of the Sierra Club picture. It was striking similar to the original card."
The Pines card isn’t claiming 12 victims on March 22nd 1971 or September 6th 1970, because "sought" is in the past tense. Had this been a fake card, a hoaxer making a mistake would logically just declare 12. The addition of sought indicates a time predating the disappearance of Lass.
I respectfully have to disagree. This is not the Zodiac’s style. In all his letters, he is direct and upfront present tense in keeping a tally. He showed no interest in saying what number a victim WOULD HAVE BEEN, but rather what the victim total was at the time. "Sought" is also not a term I would imagine the killer using. It all just seems too much out of place, and does not correspond with the Halloween postcard, which marked her as no. 14 Many have thought the H. postcard was naming Averly as the 14th but I believe that is not the case. It’s my opinion most of the public has incorrectly decoded the puzzle of the H postcard. However, it is hard to get forward thinking and closure on ideas from the other side of the nation, working a full time production job. Maybe time will allow me later on, to investigate onsite.
I do however enjoy hearing your thoughts on it.
Harvey Hines never admitted to forging the Pines card. He may have ‘forged’ a postcard, but not the postcard.
Harvey Hines believed the Pines Card was real and followed its leads. The only thing Harvey Hines did was create an alternative to the Pines card. Here is what he said in his 120 page report and here is his alternative Pines card.
"After studying the card, I drove to Nordin, located on old Highway 40, north of Lake Tahoe, and found the SIERRA CLUB. I learned the club was not called the Sierra Club. It was named the Claire Tappan Lodge and it was a private club for Sierra Club members only. I believed if I followed the directions on the postcard I would find Donna Lass’ grave. I believe she was buried near the Sierra Club and most likely on the Donner Ski Ranch. I would later have the pictures of the Sierra Club developed. Then using a copy of Zodiac’s card, I cut out the phrases he had pasted on his card. Using these phrases, I overpasted them on the copy of the Sierra Club picture. It was striking similar to the original card."
The Pines card isn’t claiming 12 victims on March 22nd 1971 or September 6th 1970, because "sought" is in the past tense. Had this been a fake card, a hoaxer making a mistake would logically just declare 12. The addition of sought indicates a time predating the disappearance of Lass.
Using "sought" makes it awfully convenient to not have to be accurate. And Zodiac always wrote "victom".
He is saying he sought victim #12. Victim 12 had to be before victim #13. Victim #13 was claimed (not published) in July of 1970.
She couldn’t have been victim 12…sought or not sought. If referencing victim 12…why and who?
Sought 14(+) would have worked…not this.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
That is true Tahoe, but I doubt Zodiac was ever accurate in his victim count claims. The Pines card is one of those cards that splits opinion. I believe it’s real, but I accept that there is minimal evidence to back up its authenticity or in fact discredit it.
https://poll.pollcode.com/1472713_result?v
The "sought victim 12" thing I’ve covered before, regarding the April 20th 1970 letter claiming 10 victims and the June 26th 1970 Button letter claiming 12. Therefore "sought victim" 12 has to slot in between April 20th and June 6th (when Lass left for Tahoe. I believe the Pines card was written retrospectively. Obviously it’s only a theory.
But she could have been sought while in San Francisco up to June 6th, or up to June 26th in Tahoe.
I think whoever wrote this was trying to imply she was victim #12.
#12 September 1970
#13 October 1970 – fake because Zodiac already claimed 13 in July–unpublished.
I think it clearly shows a goof…a goof THE Zodiac would not have made, imo.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
That is true Tahoe, but I doubt Zodiac was ever accurate in his victim count claims. The Pines card is one of those cards that splits opinion. I believe it’s real, but I accept that there is minimal evidence to back up its authenticity or in fact discredit it.
https://poll.pollcode.com/1472713_result?vThe "sought victim 12" thing I’ve covered before, regarding the April 20th 1970 letter claiming 10 victims and the June 26th 1970 Button letter claiming 12. Therefore "sought victim" 12 has to slot in between April 20th and June 6th (when Lass left for Tahoe. I believe the Pines card was written retrospectively. Obviously it’s only a theory.
But she could have been sought while in San Francisco up to June 6th, or up to June 26th in Tahoe.
If victim 12 was dead by June 26th, the victim could not have been Donna. That’s my point, is all.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Why would the author (if not Zodiac) use the word "sought"? Is the theory that it was written by a hoaxer who was not aware of the several Zodiac correspondences published since the claim of 12 victims?
Zodiac spells the word as "victom" in the Belli and Little List letters. Are those really the only two times that Zodiac uses the word victim in his correspondences? I think it might have looked a little weird for him to cut out an "o" and paste it onto the word victim to achieve his patented "victom".
Harvey Hines never admitted to forging the Pines card. He may have ‘forged’ a postcard, but not the postcard.
Harvey Hines believed the Pines Card was real and followed its leads. The only thing Harvey Hines did was create an alternative to the Pines card. Here is what he said in his 120 page report and here is his alternative Pines card.
"After studying the card, I drove to Nordin, located on old Highway 40, north of Lake Tahoe, and found the SIERRA CLUB. I learned the club was not called the Sierra Club. It was named the Claire Tappan Lodge and it was a private club for Sierra Club members only. I believed if I followed the directions on the postcard I would find Donna Lass’ grave. I believe she was buried near the Sierra Club and most likely on the Donner Ski Ranch. I would later have the pictures of the Sierra Club developed. Then using a copy of Zodiac’s card, I cut out the phrases he had pasted on his card. Using these phrases, I overpasted them on the copy of the Sierra Club picture. It was striking similar to the original card."
The Pines card isn’t claiming 12 victims on March 22nd 1971 or September 6th 1970, because "sought" is in the past tense. Had this been a fake card, a hoaxer making a mistake would logically just declare 12. The addition of sought indicates a time predating the disappearance of Lass.
Using "sought" makes it awfully convenient to not have to be accurate. And Zodiac always wrote "victom".
He is saying he sought victim #12. Victim 12 had to be before victim #13. Victim #13 was claimed (not published) in July of 1970.
She couldn’t have been victim 12…sought or not sought. If referencing victim 12…why and who?
Sought 14(+) would have worked…not this.
Really? Wow I didn’t know he spelled it that way…of course I haven’t spent that much time on spelling analysis.
It does seem to be true that there are only two references to "victoms" in the confirmed Zodiac correspondences. I wonder how the original 1966 Confession letter spelled the word. I have only seen the retyped police version which may not reflect the actual spelling of the original. If the Riverside killer did spell it with an "o" that would be a pretty compelling connection. I still don’t understand what would motivate a hoaxer to write ‘sought victim’ on the pines card rather than state a total number as the Zodiac had previously. Even if the hoaxer hadn’t seen the LA letter, 12 was not even close to the current number.
It does seem to be true that there are only two references to "victoms" in the confirmed Zodiac correspondences. I wonder how the original 1966 Confession letter spelled the word. I have only seen the retyped police version which may not reflect the actual spelling of the original. If the Riverside killer did spell it with an "o" that would be a pretty compelling connection.
From the FBI files. Difficult to make out, but pretty sure it’s "victom".
It does seem to be true that there are only two references to "victoms" in the confirmed Zodiac correspondences. I wonder how the original 1966 Confession letter spelled the word. I have only seen the retyped police version which may not reflect the actual spelling of the original. If the Riverside killer did spell it with an "o" that would be a pretty compelling connection.
From the FBI files. Difficult to make out, but pretty sure it’s "victom".
It’s either victom or victum… but I agree … not the traditional spelling.
