I’m not sure what you mean by domestic terrorist.

They all follow the same formula:

*Commit an atrocity
*Take credit for the atrocious act in a communicate with the media
^Warn of future acts if demands are not met
*List demands

That is exactly what Zodiac did.

I’m not aware that that is the official criteria for a domestic terrorist nor that known domestic terrorists like the OK city, marathon bombers, san Bernardino or vegas shooter followed that criteria.

And all his warnings and demands have nothing to do with a political agenda-its just wanting to get notoriety by publishing his letters and ciphers and people to wear zodiac buttons.

It actually goes to my points I listed of his motivation as being narcissistic, and wanting to feel important, and anger/frustration.

I don’t see any overt domestic terrorist or political agenda with the zodiac at all. Hes a serial killer, with the classic serial killer "cooling off" period in between killings, with the main motivation being killing for killing sake, for the thrill of it and the notoriety. deeply personal and psychological motivations.

I think you both have valid positions here except that distraction itself can have a political application and the idea of Zodiac as a classic example of a serial killer doesn’t sound quite right. Because he wrote to the media and his targets went beyond couples (perhaps very far beyond) I think we have to look at him as exceptional. The biggest thing I think we can gleam from the Zodiac letters is that he was very skilled in the art of subterfuge.

I’m not aware that that is the official criteria for a domestic terrorist nor that known domestic terrorists like the OK city, marathon bombers, san Bernardino or vegas shooter followed that criteria.

You do know the Zodiac killings all happened back in the 1960s, right? It was a different time. You really should educate yourself. The formula I outlined was used back then, and the Bay Area was a hot spot for domestic terrorism.

I think you both have valid positions here except that distraction itself can have a political application and the idea of Zodiac as a classic example of a serial killer doesn’t sound quite right. Because he wrote to the media and his targets went beyond couples (perhaps very far beyond) I think we have to look at him as exceptional. The biggest thing I think we can gleam from the Zodiac letters is that he was very skilled in the art of subterfuge.

Hi Druzer
well hes not the classic example of a sexual serial killer that’s for sure. But hes not really exceptional as a serial killer. son of sam, monster of Florence, even recently the florida serial killer Donaldson. Son of sam also wrote letters. no overt sexual activity, killing for killing sake. I call these types thrill killer serial killers.

yes subterfuge-ill buy that-ciphers, disguises, bombs, but subterfuge in showing just how smart, crafty and devious he is. and showing/writing out his fantasies. but not subterfuge in the political sense.

all I’m saying is that zodiac does not appear to have a political or religious motive, and fits into a known type of serial killer.

yes subterfuge-ill buy that-ciphers, disguises, bombs, but subterfuge in showing just how smart, crafty and devious he is. and showing/writing out his fantasies. but not subterfuge in the political sense.

At the time of the Zodiac crimes, the counterculture in the San Francisco Bay Area was a prime target of law enforcement. Business owners were fed up with dirty hippies clogging the sidewalks and quickly turned to Mayor Aliotto for help, who then leaned on the San Francisco Police Department to fix the problem. Then came the influx of unconstitutional arrests, which prompted the Good Times newspaper to successfully sue the city of San Francisco. During that period of time, the Zodiac was busy doing his best to not only make the police look like idiots, but to also keep them extremely busy with a much bigger problem than dirty hippies.

The more you know.

I’m not aware that that is the official criteria for a domestic terrorist nor that known domestic terrorists like the OK city, marathon bombers, san Bernardino or vegas shooter followed that criteria.

You do know the Zodiac killings all happened back in the 1960s, right? It was a different time. You really should educate yourself. The formula I outlined was used back then, and the Bay Area was a hot spot for domestic terrorism.

you mean California of the late sixties? the golden age of serial killers in the serial killer capital of the world? LOL

and right in with the condescending and personal attacks. you just cant help yourself.

and it seems YOU need to uneducate yourself because its obvious your obsessed with some wacky conspiracy theory with zodiac, gaik, and domestic terrorism. If the zodiac was a domestic terrorist he would have made his agenda and motives clear in any of the numerous letters he wrote. Publish my puzzles! wear my zodiac buttons. LOL! come on.

zero evidence the zodiac was a domestic terrorist.
zero evidence the zodiac had a political agenda.
zero evidence gaik was a domestic terrorist.
zero evidence gaik was the zodiac.

and since the mods have asked to stop with bickering and personal attacks this is my last post to you. Its a waste of time.

yes subterfuge-ill buy that-ciphers, disguises, bombs, but subterfuge in showing just how smart, crafty and devious he is. and showing/writing out his fantasies. but not subterfuge in the political sense.

At the time of the Zodiac crimes, the counterculture in the San Francisco Bay Area was a prime target of law enforcement. Business owners were fed up with dirty hippies clogging the sidewalks and quickly turned to Mayor Aliotto for help, who then leaned on the San Francisco Police Department to fix the problem. Then came the influx of unconstitutional arrests, which prompted the Good Times newspaper to successfully sue the city of San Francisco. During that period of time, the Zodiac was busy doing his best to not only make the police look like idiots, but to also keep them extremely busy with a much bigger problem than dirty hippies.

The more you know.

Thank you for this articulation Tom – this is exactly the kind of insight I scour these boards for.

Spiderhawk, I totally see the apt comparison to the 1970s Son of Sam killings and I agree that we can’t be certain that Zodiac was motivated by anything other than evil.

and YOU need to uneducated yourself because its obvious your obsessed with some wacky conspiracy theory with zodiac, gaik, and domestic terrorism. If the zodiac was a domestic terrorist he would have made his agenda and motives clear in any of the numerous letters he wrote. Publish my puzzles! wear my zodiac buttons. LOL! come on.

Wow, do you even read my posts before you reply?

The counterculture was already under attack by local police. Read a book, watch a documentary. You really believe that Gaikowski as the Zodiac would want to increase that situation by making it obvious the Zodiac was part of the counterculture, a politically-driven person? Haven’t thought this through I see.

Even if the Zodiac was not part of the counterculture, he sure helped them by giving police a much bigger problem to focus on. And yes, Zodiac followed the terrorist formula of the day to a T; all that differed were his demands.

At the time of the Zodiac crimes, Gaikowski was an undiagnosed schizophrenic using heavy drugs and suffering from depression and a confused sexual identity. After the Stine murder Gaikowski came out of the closet as being gay. In March 1971 Gaikowski was committed to the Napa State Hospital, diagnosed finally, and began treatment. That same month was the end of "Zodiac" letters, that name was never used again.

and it seems YOU need to uneducate yourself because its obvious your obsessed with some wacky conspiracy theory

Proof you don’t actually read before replying; I have never even hinted I thought there was a conspiracy theory. No wonder you bailed on this thread.

Tom, after the official "Zodiac" campaign ended in March 71 do you believe that Zodiac stopped killing, even if he did continue writing under other names? If Zodiac was Gaikowski I would guess that he did stop and straighten out, but if Zodiac was not this seemingly decent journalist/activist/artist/veteran who went through a period of evil brought on by unmedicated mental illness, I would definitely think that Zodiac continued murdering strangers for years. I’m just curious where you currently stand on this eternal question.

Tom, after the official "Zodiac" campaign ended in March 71 do you believe that Zodiac stopped killing, even if he did continue writing under other names? If Zodiac was Gaikowski I would guess that he did stop and straighten out, but if Zodiac was not this seemingly decent journalist/activist/artist/veteran who went through a period of evil brought on by unmedicated mental illness, I would definitely think that Zodiac continued murdering strangers for years. I’m just curious where you currently stand on this eternal question.

I believe Zodiac likely killed through 1970; apparently there are at least two victims that have not been announced as being the work of Zodiac. I don’t recall anything 1971 and beyond that I felt he was responsible for.

The letters continued for sure, there are at least three that were authenticated but never released. And I do believe Zodiac wrote the 1990 Eureka card.

Tom, after the official "Zodiac" campaign ended in March 71 do you believe that Zodiac stopped killing, even if he did continue writing under other names? If Zodiac was Gaikowski I would guess that he did stop and straighten out, but if Zodiac was not this seemingly decent journalist/activist/artist/veteran who went through a period of evil brought on by unmedicated mental illness, I would definitely think that Zodiac continued murdering strangers for years. I’m just curious where you currently stand on this eternal question.

I believe Zodiac likely killed through 1970; apparently there are at least two victims that have not been announced as being the work of Zodiac. I don’t recall anything 1971 and beyond that I felt he was responsible for.

The letters continued for sure, there are at least three that were authenticated but never released. And I do believe Zodiac wrote the 1990 Eureka card.

Interesting, thanks for addressing that. I too believe the Eureka card is authentic. I haven’t read much about Klingel on your site yet but linking the owner of those keys to a potential murder in the 60s (if I’ve summarized that accurately) is pretty amazing. I guess this isn’t the proper thread to discuss it in depth but I have always interpreted the motivation of the Eureka card as a response to the NY Zodiac copycat.

Do you know anything about those other letters and victims that have not been made public or were you just informed of their existence? I would of course appreciate anything you at liberty to share.

Do you know anything about those other letters and victims that have not been made public or were you just informed of their existence?

I do, but was asked to not share details yet. Hopefully that will change.

Of course one of the three letters is the DMV letter, another had to do with a victim. Not sure about the third letter.

Do you know anything about those other letters and victims that have not been made public or were you just informed of their existence?

I do, but was asked to not share details yet. Hopefully that will change.

Of course one of the three letters is the DMV letter, another had to do with a victim. Not sure about the third letter.

Excellent! I am very glad to hear that you possess more info even if you can’t presently let us in on it. Forever torn on whether Bates and Lass were victims of Zodiac I’m very surprised and intrigued to learn that he wrote about a victim. Now of course I need to immediately see this DMV letter. I could have sworn I’d seen everything. Thanks for your time Tom.

Now of course I need to immediately see this DMV letter. I could have sworn I’d seen everything.

It remains elusive.