I’ve said this before, but will try again. In my mind, there’s no doubt that the desktop poem author was psychotic and, very possibly, homicidal. According to Sherwood Morrill, recognized State of California graphologist the poem was written by Zodiac. It is difficult to assert that someone other than the poem’s author killed Bates: two psychotic killers on one college campus at the same time is pushing the odds. I believe the man who killed Bates did so for personal reasons, and went on to become Zodiac.
Well, to be fair, the whole bay area kinda had a monopoly on crazies and serial killers in the 60’s and 70’s
I’ve said this before, but will try again. In my mind, there’s no doubt that the desktop poem author was psychotic and, very possibly, homicidal. According to Sherwood Morrill, recognized State of California graphologist the poem was written by Zodiac. It is difficult to assert that someone other than the poem’s author killed Bates: two psychotic killers on one college campus at the same time is pushing the odds. I believe the man who killed Bates did so for personal reasons, and went on to become Zodiac.
If you have faith in Morrill’s assessment of the poem, Zodiac is not Ross. Morrill confirmed the 1978 letter as Zodiac. Not a copy-cat…Zodiac.
This is a conundrum if praising Morrill’s expertise, while supporting Ross.
To be fair,didn’t Sherwood reverse himself? Wasn’t he using a copy of something as opposed to an original?
Black and White thinking = he was wrong one time, therefore he was wrong every time!
I give Sherwood a pass since (1) it technically was Z handwriting, but it was forged. (2) the guy who forged it consulted with Sherwood and probably found out the traits he would be looking for.
Also he was retired at the time, and probably only looked at the copy in the newspaper. Claiming Sherwood is incompetent is one of the weakest defenses against the Riverside writing connection to Zodiac’s.
Claiming Sherwood is incompetent is one of the weakest defenses against the Riverside writing connection to Zodiac’s.
Not for those who don’t consider graphology and "handwriting analysis" to be psuedoscientific nonsense
Black and White thinking = he was wrong one time, therefore he was wrong every time!
I give Sherwood a pass since (1) it technically was Z handwriting, but it was forged. (2) the guy who forged it consulted with Sherwood and probably found out the traits he would be looking for.
Also he was retired at the time, and probably only looked at the copy in the newspaper. Claiming Sherwood is incompetent is one of the weakest defenses against the Riverside writing connection to Zodiac’s.
You state that like it is a fact. It is not. You don’t know the writer consulted with Morrill.
Bottom line, if it wasn’t Zodiac who wrote it, it is a fake. He should have recognized it was forced…a forgery. A forgery mean it was fake. It is not Zodiac’s writing. I am surprised I even have to write this…
***
I think Morrill was good at what he did, and probably one of the best when it came to the Zodiac case. I do think it would be hard to judge off of a photograph–even Morrill himself discussed the ways in which he got the best results. A photograph would limit those abilities, as would a carving with a pen in a desk, which too, may have been via a photograph…I don’t know. Certainly, I never said Morrill was incompetent and never said he got them all wrong. Simple human error at times, yes.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
From the other thread
How many people from Riverside were schizophrenic? How many of the current Zodiac suspects were schizophrenic?
Only one I know of…
A bunch of folks! Look at southern and northern cali around this time. Look at all the insane asylums they had. I’d say it’s more statistically improbable that Ross was the ONLY guy on RCC that time period with schizophenia
From the other thread
How many people from Riverside were schizophrenic? How many of the current Zodiac suspects were schizophrenic?
Only one I know of…
A bunch of folks! Look at southern and northern cali around this time. Look at all the insane asylums they had. I’d say it’s more statistically improbable that Ross was the ONLY guy on RCC that time period with schizophenia
IF Zodiac had ties to Riverside, then that narrows down the suspect pool. If we then look at people with ties to RCC, who moved to the Bay Area during the Zodiac crimes AND who were schizophrenic, try finding more than 2 people that fit that criteria.
Prove Gyke was in Riverside – maybe. Prove he was in the RCC – much less likely. Prove he was in the RCC Library and meets the schizophrenic diagnosis?
.00000000001% chance of that.
From the other thread
How many people from Riverside were schizophrenic? How many of the current Zodiac suspects were schizophrenic?
Only one I know of…
A bunch of folks! Look at southern and northern cali around this time. Look at all the insane asylums they had. I’d say it’s more statistically improbable that Ross was the ONLY guy on RCC that time period with schizophenia
IF Zodiac had ties to Riverside, then that narrows down the suspect pool. If we then look at people with ties to RCC, who moved to the Bay Area during the Zodiac crimes AND who were schizophrenic, try finding more than 2 people that fit that criteria.
Prove Gyke was in Riverside – maybe. Prove he was in the RCC – much less likely. Prove he was in the RCC Library and meets the schizophrenic diagnosis?
.00000000001% chance of that.
I don’t think Z has ties to Riverside. I don’t think Gyke was Z. It’s easy to have a narrow pool when you create an environment to only your suspects liking that he fits.
Not to mention, despite Z having schizophrenia, that doesn’t mean he was diagnosed or that we will even know if the real Z’s schizophrenia was even public knowledge
Paul:
My POI lived in Riverside and was a senior at Ramona High when Bates was a freshman. After graduation he joined the Navy (footprints at Bates crime scene) then married a girl who literally lived around the corner from Bates. Incidentally, his wife-to-be attended Riverside City College and was a librarian’s assistant before her wedding in September, 1966. Due to legal obstacles I can’t prove, but suspect, that my POI attended RCC before he and his wife moved to San Jose, where he graduated with a degree in Graphics Design in, I believe, 1971.
Paul:
My POI lived in Riverside and was a senior at Ramona High when Bates was a freshman. After graduation he joined the Navy (footprints at Bates crime scene) then married a girl who literally lived around the corner from Bates. Incidentally, his wife-to-be attended Riverside City College and was a librarian’s assistant before her wedding in September, 1966. Due to legal obstacles I can’t prove, but suspect, that my POI attended RCC before he and his wife moved to San Jose, where he graduated with a degree in Graphics Design in, I believe, 1971.
What legal obstacle is it to be overcome? I may be able to help ya, depending on what it is
I have been reading the arguments for the last several days, after leaving the Ross threads for about 1-1/2 years. I am not sure about what we are arguing about. Are we arguing about whether Ross could have been Zodiac, or are we arguing about whether we should pursue more information about Ross?
Who is arguing that Ross could not have been Zodiac AND that we should not continue to pursue more information about Ross?
Based on what we know, who thinks that further investigation into Ross should be discontinued?
If anybody can make a good argument as to why further investigation into Ross should be discontinued, then I would like to read that argument.
I have been reading the arguments for the last several days, after leaving the Ross threads for about 1-1/2 years. I am not sure about what we are arguing about. Are we arguing about whether Ross could have been Zodiac, or are we arguing about whether we should pursue more information about Ross?
Who is arguing that Ross could not have been Zodiac AND that we should not continue to pursue more information about Ross?
Based on what we know, who thinks that further investigation into Ross should be discontinued?
If anybody can make a good argument as to why further investigation into Ross should be discontinued, then I would like to read that argument.
I’m not speaking for others, but personally I’m arguing only that Ross is not Z. I don’t think we even need more information, but more information is never bad. I’m not arguing against further research.
However, that does pose a good question: at what point do we actually say enough is enough? I know morf feels that DNA and fingerprinting is the final straw for him, but what if we find he was institutionalized during our missing Ross years? What is the point of falsifiability for everyone else?
Thing is…there is always an out with almost any evidence if one wants to go that route. Saliva…someone else licked the stamps, institutionalized…weekend furlough. That goes for any POI really. Even DNA has its problems with this case.
I think eliminating Ross from Cheri’s murder would be the easiest.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Thing is…there is always an out with almost any evidence if one wants to go that route. Saliva…someone else licked the stamps, institutionalized…weekend furlough. That goes for any POI really. Even DNA has its problems with this case.
I think eliminating Ross from Cheri’s murder would be the easiest.
Eliminating him as Cheri’s murderer would not necessarily prove he wasn’t Z, but I do imagine it would take the air out of the sail of a majority of those who have him as their suspect.
Look, I’m glad you all have this thread to cast your doubts, and that’s fine. I won’t jump in anymore. The evidence on Ross seems to interfere with pet theories and I can only de-bunk your arguments so many times.
I really don’t see any of you coming up with a good reason why he shouldn’t be a top suspect. He will remain a top suspect until DNA says otherwise. Even if this entire board shuts down, that wont change at this point. Ross was really an unknown suspect until a few years ago and the info we have put together on him is nothing short of incredible.
So go ahead,
Don’t think the Riverside connection matters – Just blow off all the evidence as a big coincidence.
Don’t think CJB was a Z victim – So did RPD and they have nothing to show after 50 years.
Don’t think Ross was short enough – have fun looking for a mini-me version of Ross, widows peak and all.
This happens with almost everyone who believes their guy is Zodiac. That defensive tone.
You think Ross was Zodiac, Paul. Fine. Some of us simply look at things differently.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
