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Schizophrenic gait "Shuffling lope, bent forward, head down"

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(@solvethemystery)
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Was Sulllivan known to have gait issues in the late 1960s due to schizophrenia? Surely his family might know?

What officer Donald Fouke describes in both his 1969 "scratch" interoffice memo and the 2007 Zodiac documentary are consistent with a common gait problem that schizophrenics experience.

Fouke’s 1969 scratch:

"Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walked with a shuffling lope, Slightly bent forward head down."

2007 Fouke interview:

"You could say he sort of looked down. Perhaps this lumbering gait, stumbling along like a semi-limp, might have come up in my mind because he was putting his head down when he spotted the police car."

Video of Fouke speaking: https://youtu.be/HI0jnsbZwys?t=5221

What’s remarkable is back in 2007, when most web sleuths were focusing on Arthur Leigh Allen, Fouke describes aspects of Sullivan’s appearance: widow’s peak, medium heavy build, barrel chested, light colored hair, crew cut, wearing glasses.

Marry that with Fouke’s observation of an odd gait which sounds consistent with that of a schizophrenic walking and it really compounds the circumstantial evidence pointing at Ross.

Yes, there are some aspects of Fouke’s description that are a bit off, but I don’t think they exclude Ross. Fouke said the suspect was "about 5’10", 180-200lbs". That certainly is shorter and lighter than Ross who was 6’2" and 260-300lbs. But Fouke was driving by and the suspect had his head down, bent forward. As the suspect was not standing fully erect, it could make him look a few inches shorter to Fouke’s trained eye. Sometimes from a distance, stocky people can also appear shorter than they are — just as skinny people tend to look taller.

Is Fouke still alive, and has he ever commented on the 1959 era photos of Ross that have surfaced in the last two or three years?

Here’s an example research paper which notes a correlation between gait irregularities and schizophrenia.

 
Posted : December 19, 2017 8:39 am
(@skyward)
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Love this thx for post

 
Posted : December 19, 2017 9:40 am
(@solvethemystery)
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Survivor Mike Mageau’s recollection of how Zodiac walked is remarkably consistent with Fouke’s description of the Stine suspect’s gait:

Surprisingly, ‘he walked slowly and with his head down,’ Mageau said. … Mageau stressed that his description of the onslaught was not positive in his mind but was more impersonal than exact. He pointed out he was suffering from the critical wounds most of the time.

–KILLER’S SOLE SURVIVOR TALKS
Vallejo Times Herald
August 19, 1969
Dave Peterson

If Ross Sullivan was experiencing gait irregularities by 1968 due to his schizophrenia, this is more compelling evidence pointing in his direction.

 
Posted : December 19, 2017 10:26 am
Pretty Polly
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Very interesting, thanks!

 
Posted : December 19, 2017 7:18 pm
(@solvethemystery)
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Below is what Hartnell said in the 2007 documentary. He doesn’t mention Zodiac’s gait, but it’s not clear that he saw much of Zodiac walking. By the time Hartnell turned around Zodiac was fairly close. It’s also not clear if Hartnell actually saw Zodiac walk off — or just sensed that he walked off while Hartnell was pretending to be dead.

Hartnell: And I turn around and I’m faced with this man not running, but walking briskly toward me with a gun in his hand.

…or he felt he’d done an adequate job to kill her. And I sensed he was standing there looking, and he just walked off.

 
Posted : December 19, 2017 8:26 pm
(@solvethemystery)
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From a paper titled "Gait and its assessment in psychiatry": https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922365/

Abstract
Gait reflects all levels of nervous system function. In psychiatry, gait disturbances reflecting cortical and subcortical dysfunction are often seen. Observing spontaneous gait, sometimes augmented by a few brief tests, can be highly informative. The authors briefly review the neuroanatomy of gait, review gait abnormalities seen in psychiatric and neurologic disorders, and describe the assessment of gait.

Schizophrenia is consistently associated with mild Parkinsonism and ataxia, regardless of medications. Often the gait is slower, stride length shorter and tandem gait mildly impaired.

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 12:31 am
(@solvethemystery)
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It’s interesting that schizophrenia is consistently associated with mild Parkinsonism. A common aspect of Parkinsonism is tremors — which can result in trembling hands.

If we circle back to Bryan Hartnell’s description of the Zodiac attack, Hartnell observed that the killer’s hands were shaking:

Hartnell: "Your hands are shaking? Are you nervous?"
Zodiac: "Yes, I guess so."
(laughs in a very relaxed manner)

Perhaps this is even greater circumstantial evidence of Zodiac being a schizophrenic — and Ross Sullivan.

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 12:38 am
(@skyward)
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Reinforces details, relating sightings in disparate locations to each other; as debated as Fouke timeline has been, he saw someone, and that someone was consistent with the other two victim descriptions, even now the LA Times ‘filmmakers troupe’ photo reveals its secrets with Ross’ jacket, assuming he owned his wardrobe worn in that photograph.

What I do like about Fouke and his report is the further telling of it by Z himself, that image of narrow avoidance which repeats throughout the uniquely intriguing case, leaving it unsolved.

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 2:08 am
(@skyward)
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And lets not forget this from within the thread circa 2015, Mr. Sullivan with guns blazing….

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 4:22 am
(@solvethemystery)
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Zodiac gives us another clue to his schizophrenic mental illness in the Cheri Jo Bates confession letter: "I AM NOT SICK. I AM INSANE. BUT THAT WILL NOT STOP THE GAME."

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 9:59 am
(@solvethemystery)
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And lets not forget this from within the thread circa 2015, Mr. Sullivan with guns blazing….

It’s also interesting that in the 1958 talent show skit and 1959 student Deja Vive film, Ross is associated with violence (guns and murder, respectively). It seems he gravitated toward play acting violent scenes before any documented psychiatric institutionalizations.

And you never see Ross smile in those high school photos. An early lead indicator of the developing onset of schizophrenia is a blank facial expression.

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 10:16 am
Zresearch
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Zodiac gives us another clue to his schizophrenic mental illness in the Cheri Jo Bates confession letter: "I AM NOT SICK. I AM INSANE. BUT THAT WILL NOT STOP THE GAME."

Do any of you guys actually know any schizophrenics?

But first, I think zodiac was saying I am not mentally ill, I am not a sick person, meaning he was not affected by a debilitating mental condition, he was "insane" meaning that he was simply a violent, angry, and homicidal individual.

My sisters husbands brother is schizophrenic, and I have been dealing with those who are affected by schizophrenia for quite some time.

I think it is ridiculous to suggest that zodiac was schizophrenic.

Most schizophrenics can have issues just holding normal conversation with others, they have difficulty holding jobs, and have issues with generating and executing complex plans. they have issues with organization and foresight, and their hallucinations and delusions coupled with rapid emotional change would make executing these crimes, and not slipping up or not getting caught, very very very difficult for a true schizophrenic. Also, as a result of their illness obtaining and owning a gun would be quite difficult. Also having the freedom and time to commit these crimes does not seem fitting for a schizophrenic.

…and while yes, most schizophrenics have obsessions with symbols, I do not see the cipher work, or the letters, being the work of a schizophrenic.

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 6:59 pm
(@solvethemystery)
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Zodiac gives us another clue to his schizophrenic mental illness in the Cheri Jo Bates confession letter: "I AM NOT SICK. I AM INSANE. BUT THAT WILL NOT STOP THE GAME."

I think it is ridiculous to suggest that zodiac was schizophrenic.

The gait issues of Zodiac suggest otherwise. They are consistent with the gait of a schizophrenic.

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 7:28 pm
(@mmsox)
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…would make executing these crimes, and not slipping up or not getting caught, very very very difficult for a true schizophrenic. Also, as a result of their illness obtaining and owning a gun would be quite difficult. Also having the freedom and time to commit these crimes does not seem fitting for a schizophrenic.

In 2017, absolutely correct. In the mid-late 60s, not so much. PDs didn’t work together like now, wasn’t dna, guns could be purchased by mail, there wasn’t as many meds, oversight, etc. He was able to take advantage of the times.

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 8:29 pm
Tahoe27
(@tahoe27)
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Zodiac gives us another clue to his schizophrenic mental illness in the Cheri Jo Bates confession letter: "I AM NOT SICK. I AM INSANE. BUT THAT WILL NOT STOP THE GAME."

I think it is ridiculous to suggest that zodiac was schizophrenic.

The gait issues of Zodiac suggest otherwise. They are consistent with the gait of a schizophrenic.

With all due respect, the way Fouke describes the way Zodiac walked doesn’t mean he was schizophrenic. It could mean the guy had a bad knee, sore back…or, that’s just the way the guy walked. Might it "suggest" it…ok, but consistent? I think that is a big stretch.


…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep. L.A. Times, 1969

 
Posted : December 20, 2017 9:55 pm
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