Supposedly the footprints at Lake Berryessa were tested right after the murder and the cops determined it had to be somebody of a certain weight (in the heavy range.) To the untrained observer it just seems this test should be taken with a grain of salt since the softness of dirt in any location can change from day to day and from hour to hour. But this is one of the arguments used against Kaczinsky—he was too light in weight to make the footprints. Of course, he could have put some weights in his pockets. But how reliable is this footprints depth test? Is it commonly accepted in a court of law? Besides the variable softness of the dirt, the depth of the footprints can also vary depending on whether the suspect was running, stomping, jumping, etc. Would vary according to his gait, in other words. I don’t see how they can absolutely determine the weight of the suspect with this test. No way.
Right. IMO its absolute junk science. I went to US Army Military Police School, and was trained in basic crime scene and investigation procedures. My BA in Political Philosophy includes a minor in Criminal Justice. And I am a law school grad and attorney who has worked, mainly on the defense side but also on the government side, on major felony cases including several murder cases. In none of these capacities have I ever been exposed to any evidence purporting to show someone’s weight based on the depth of a footprint!
Its nonsense. Like you said, what if the person had a 50 pound backpack on? Or was carrying something heavy? What if the sand or dirt was moist and thus a person makes a deeper impression?
A long time ago, a few people would bring this up when discussing Ted. But it went away as an issue, nobody even brings it up anymore, because it just has little to no credibility.
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It was brought up just a few days ago in a thread about irregularity of the Zodiac or something like that. Good to know that it’s just junk science. I’m also a graduate of US Army MP School. One thing that kind of sticks in my mind was when they gave the course of instruction on "Domestic Disturbances." They showed a photo of what happened to one unfortunate soldier when he irritated his Korean wife. The little lady had cranked up the chain saw and carved him up like a turkey. Don’t ever piss off a Korean woman!
What I’m curious about regarding Ted and the LB footprints is whether they indicate the pigeon-toed left foot his brother mentioned.
What I’m curious about regarding Ted and the LB footprints is whether they indicate the pigeon-toed left foot his brother mentioned.
Never heard anything on that point. Both the Zodiac Killer and TK were noted to have an unusual walk.
ZODIAC KILLER: In the first report of Officer Fouke, he wrote that the man he saw walking away from the Stine crime scene – who was probably the Zodiac – had a "shuffling lope". The report is attached, and the key line in full is:
"Subject at no time appeared to be in a hurry walked with a shuffling lope, slightly bent forward head down."
It is not quite clear exactly what Fouke means, but apparently the walk of Zodiac was distinctive enough that he remembered it and felt it worthy to note. Fouke later amplified on this somewhat ambiguous description in the documentary on the Zodiac 2 Disc DVD. From a transcript provided by Doug Oswell and on the Howard Davis site, Fouke states it was a:
"lumbering gait, sort of stumbling along, like a semi-limp."
On 9/27/69 three college girls at Lake Berryessa felt they were being watched by a man who behaved oddly, hiding in his car and then behind trees. Some think this man could be the Zodiac. One of the girls, called "Lorna" by Robert Graysmith in Zodiac Unmasked, gives an interesting description on pp. 395-396, parts of which I relate here, with the key part emphasized:
He was not distinctive, just an average, normal plain person, other than he gave us the creeps…I remember his face as square, all sides symmetrical. I don’t remember him being pudgy, just compact…stocky, solid. The minute you mentioned the suspect was a swimmer, that felt so right about his body type. I wouldn’t say he had a limp, but he favored one leg when he walked. He was clean-cut, nice-looking, and wearing dark blue pants, pleated like suit pants, and a black sweatshirt with short sleeves, knitted at the ends."
VR/EAR/ONS: Walked "knock kneed", "effeminate". "a funny gait."
TED KACZYNSKI: In terms of Ted Kaczynski, David Kaczynski told the FBI in his Declaration of February 18, 1997:
"The FBI asked me if there was anything unusual about my brother’s gait. I replied that his left foot is noticeably pigeon-toed and affects the way he walks."
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Anyway, those footprints are long gone, so the only thing you could do is look at the police report, if there is one. I’d be interested to know if there actually is a police report or is this just a "word of mouth" deal that somebody learned from a "source that he cultivated." Apparently there was nothing noticeably pigeon-toed about the footprints, or they would have put that in the report. If you look at Kaczinsky walking in his perp walk there is nothing unusual about his gait. Not sure exactly what his brother meant by pigeon-toed.
Just checking on the LB section of this message board, apparently there’s a lot of controversy over whether the footprints were the Zodiac’s, how big they were, whether they were wingwalkers, etc. Supposedly, the "scientific" test the cops did to determine the man’s weight is they took the biggest cop they had and tried to make similar footprints and concluded from this test the man must have been over 220 lbs, although I don’t see this in the report. But they don’t really know if the tracks were from the Z or not. The main thing the cops were interested in, apparently, was the type of shoe, which is a military shoe, not their estimate of the guy’s weight. Of course, we must remember that at the time the cops had no idea this case would become perhaps the most studied case in criminal history, but they were trying to do good police work at the time. Forensic science in 2016 would be much more thorough and painstakingly precise, we assume.
EOTW, here’s some links to the police and other reports for you.
LHR
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR1.html
BRS
http://www.zodiackiller.com/DFR1.html
LB
http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport1.html
There is not much in the way of reports on the Stine murder. Just read all of the links and highlighted things at this page-
http://www.zodiackiller.com/Stine.html
DOJ Report, lots of LB in this report.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/DOJ1.html
There are other reports, too.
Yeah, the DOJ report says the footprint is thirteen inches long. That’s a lot bigger than a size 10 1/2 wing walker shoe. I don’t know if this is actually explained anywhere. However Kaczinsky is the only criminal I’ve ever heard of who actually had a fake shoe-size device in his home, so that might figure in to this situation. As commented elsewhere a thirteen inch long shoe is a very large shoe size.
Can’t think of many who have been convicted of a crime based on footprints. Nor many who have been cleared of a crime based on the same. Not outside the realm of detective literature, at least.
The LB footprints are interesting, and part of the case evidence. As such, they can’t be dismissed as insignificant. But they prove nothing.
Can’t think of many who have been convicted of a crime based on footprints. Nor many who have been cleared of a crime based on the same. Not outside the realm of detective literature, at least.
The LB footprints are interesting, and part of the case evidence. As such, they can’t be dismissed as insignificant. But they prove nothing.
Unless they would have found the shoe in his possession with the same shoe print and soil embedded in them. 
….as luck would not have it.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Have they ever explained the discrepancy between the thirteen inch long footprint in the DOJ report and the size 10 1/2 wing walker shoe which is often mentioned? Anyway the thing that got me interested in the footprints is on the "irregularity" thread this other guy said Kaczinsky was too light in weight to make the footprint. He also said TK was "cleared" by the FBI and the SFPD. When I didn’t concede he got flustered and said he would leave the thread, but then he immediately came back on the thread. I’ve had people do this before—-if you bring up Kaczinsky they try to quickly dismiss the possibility, but all of the "those are the facts" "evidence" they spout turns out to be hogwash. They get angry when you point out their errors. Maybe there is a "fact" which clears TK in the Zodiac case, but I haven’t seen it yet.
Maybe there is a "fact" which clears TK in the Zodiac case, but I haven’t seen it yet.
There isn’t an absolute, undeniable "fact" which clears any of the popular "suspects" in the Zodiac case. Which is why they remain popular.
Yeah, but my point is with TK they TRY to bring up a bunch of hogwash and they say "Those are the facts." A lot of Zodiac sleuthers have it engrained in their heads somehow that TK is not even a possibility, until you point out their folly. This has happened to me a couple times.
Fair enough. And pointing out holes in counter arguments is a worthy exercise in itself. But such holes don’t go one inch towards validating the primary argument – the one on your part, that is.
If you think Ted may have been Z – good. But no amount of faulty arguments as to why he wasn’t, is going to make that basic assumption any more likely.
