You guys are bending the shoe sole completely flat before measuring? I point this out because of some info i had recently read about the EAR/ONS case. They found shoe impressions outside of windows and in backyards of his victims. The impressions measured something like 12.5 inches (i am not positive about the measurements just giving this as an example). From the shoe design they had determined the manufacturer and model. The company said if the impression was 12.5 (or whatever it was) then the shoe size would be a 9.5 (or whatever it was). So, this might be a case me jumping to some bad conclusions but i am guessing that the authorities did track down the manufacturer of the boot impressions at LB. I am guess that from the 13 inch long impression that the manufacturer told them it was a 10.5. Maybe not, perhaps law enforcement just guessed at this. However, if you measure a shoe with the sole completely flattened out and straight, i am fairly confident that a 13 inch long shoe impression (with the weight of a human inside the shoes) would be a 10.5 sized shoe, give or take half an inch. Not trying to say anyone is wrong about the measurements of the impressions, just pointing out that a 10 size shoe isn’t 10 inches long. Its also possible to contact the manufacturer and know with a fair amount of certainty about the printed size of shoe that left an impression. ALSO, if you really care then go outside in some loose soil or sand and make a good impression with you shoes. Then take a tape measure or yard stick and measure that impression. 10.5 work boot is definitely very close to 13 inches long.

You make a good point. They did know the shoe. I would like to think LE was looking for the proper size. Not only that, those types of boots sometimes have sort of a rim around the edges. Maybe this could account for further length on the outside, but not necessary the inside. I feel confident the 10.5 was the correct size.

I just don’t see those shoe doohickey’s TK had created being used at LB to climb up hillsides…

OK, let’s assume they got the shoe size right. Still, they didn’t really scientifically prove the Z’s weight with their impromptu shoeprint depth test. This is what people bring up sometimes to say it couldn’t be TK, which was the reason for this thread in the first place. Also, leaving TK’s fake shoeprint device aside, anybody could disguise his shoe size simply by wearing larger shoes and stuffing some newspaper in the toes. BTW, what was/is TK’s shoe size?

The manner in which they assumed the weight seems like a good idea. However, when you start thinking about it a little its just not very reliable. From everything i’ve read it seems the weight compresson test using an officer is the only method they tried to guess the weight. It may be right but it could be off by 50 pounds. So, i don’t much a ton of stock into the assumed weight from the foot prints.

Tk i think had some shoes with fake soles..i think a photo is on here somewhere..i have never been able to develop any explainable link to LB and TK..some of the other poi’s one can develop some plausible theory as to why they may have chosen LB…trying to tie TK to cjb is a much bigger hurdle…no biggie here..i still like tk but cracks persist

Tk i think had some shoes with fake soles..i think a photo is on here somewhere..i have never been able to develop any explainable link to LB and TK..some of the other poi’s one can develop some plausible theory as to why they may have chosen LB…trying to tie TK to cjb is a much bigger hurdle…no biggie here..i still like tk but cracks persist

Yep look on page 2 of this thread for Ted’s false shoe print improvised mechanism.

Ted did come to California to interview for a job at U Cal Berkeley and then set up living quarters in the late 66 to early 67 period, coinciding with the time of the Bates murder and letters. And he was a professor at Berkeley and/or living in Berkeley during the time of the Zodiac murders and letters.

I agree Ted did not have a known specific tie to Lake Berryessa or Vallejo. But if you look at where Bundy and other serial killers actually killed, it is usually not in their immediate neighborhood. Ted maimed or killed people in Connecticut, Tennessee and several other cities and states he had no prior ties to.

Ted did not personally Cheri Bates, but he did not know personally know any of the people he killed. Most serial killers have no prior relationship with or personal knowledge of the people they kill. Usually they look for a type – brown haired college age girls, teen boys, etc.

His brother David told me that Ted "hunted" in the wooded areas north of SF and Berkeley, and that he "thought that maybe" Ted owned or had use of a very basic cabin in those areas.

snooter, also there is no proof the Zodiac murdered Cheri Jo Bates. This murder was different than his known attacks—also in a different part of the state. It’s not PROVEN by the Z that he murdered CJB, as the four known attacks were proven.

Question: what size were the shoe prints at Bates’ murder site? Comparable to LB or no? Also, I understand both sets of prints were made by Wingwalkers–right or not?

Question: what size were the shoe prints at Bates’ murder site? Comparable to LB or no? Also, I understand both sets of prints were made by Wingwalkers–right or not?

The heel print found at the scene is discussed in the second paragraph here, in the DOJ Report-

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DOJ33.html

OK, it was a military shoe. But was it or was it not a wing walker? Was it the same shoe as the one used at LB? I think they decided the prints at LB were larger, if I’m not mistaken.

We don’t have any police reports from Cheri Jo’s murder to be able to know for sure whether or not it was a wing walker shoe. The only place I can find where the shoe was discussed officially was in the DOJ report and more briefly in the "Special Report".

http://www.zodiackiller.com/SR2.html

If you can find an official discussion of the shoe please let us know.

Yeah, the other report above says something about black dress shoe, which would not be a wing walker, which was a work shoe. But they are going back to where the shoe was made, in the prison, and actually with all that tracing somebody could have made a mistake. But if no mistakes were made, it was not a wing walker, and also it was smaller than the Z’s shoes at LB, which was listed as 13 inches long and size 10 1/2. At the CJB scene they found a heel for a size 8-10. Personally, I don’t think the Zodiac killed CJB anyway, but if the shoes were identical I could possibly be convinced otherwise. But no, shoes not a match. Also, victim selection not a match (Z’s first three attacks were lovers’ lane COUPLES; none of his confirmed attacks were lone females.) The Stine murder deviated because by that time he had his media circus going full bore—–the media interplay by that time interested him more than the murder itself.