Great points welsh chapie there are alot of them in this and other books on this subject I read another ,but cannot remmeber it’s name now.
Apollo 13 to place at a time with extreme solar flares adding even greater rays to the equation .
The 3000 people watching TV in western austrialia that said they saw a empty coke bottle roll across in front of the camera.
The pillow or inflatable rock that suggests some one was a rat and they were done deliberately.
No crater under the main rocket of the LEM just dusty powder of moon soil
the almost impossible control characteristics of the gyroless LEM
Buzz Aldrins face glass reflection showing a flash
The lift off at the moon site being void of smoke and looks like a wire showing pulling a model LEM upward
I was ready to let this thread die out but not like this. tahoe ,smithy you beleive it was real I and a lot of others do not at least apollo 11. I am not interested in kane ,gaikowski ,marshall as suspects because they were not Z IMO but I do not bash others statement supporting their theories
I did read the wIKI article Tahoe a majority of which seemed to support a hoax. the other link takes forever to load and did not .
I think you cannot beleive are gov would tell such a lie . gus grissoms daughter contended that her fathers death in Apollo 1 was an accident untill the 90’s when she talked with some of the same engineers writing these books.
as for the part I suggested zodiac was a diversion to apollo no I do not believe it, but still would not completely rule it out .
Dick Nixon was pres he never did anything shady right.
But fact and stats don’t count cause it was on the telly so it must be true and NASA’s explanation for how their astronauts were not effected by the Belt’s was brilliant….
"They weren’t exposed for long as the crew flew through the Belts quickly." Yes, hours and hours exposure doesn’t count. Any comment on the solar particles and radio active blasts of solar flares after they had ignored the Van Allen belts and found themselves on the Moon? Even on Earth a solar storm can be health hazardous and we have a thick atmosphere protecting us to direct the huge majority of lethal rays away into space. Moon has no such atmos and any man standing on the surface of the Moon would be at the mercy of solar radioactive bursts with level’s that are, well, lethal and will kill a human subjected to it without protection instantly!
That’s all that needs to be said really for me.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Well if anyone wants to call my comments a ‘Conspiracy Theory’ then that’s fine but I will remind them what the Law’s definition of Conspiracy is:
"An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action."
Well, I assure everyone I am one person and not the "Two or more persons" needed in order to invoke a claim of conspiracy. But what about NASA? Theirs is a theory and one that saw two or more people engaging in activity of the conspiratorial nature. Their theory is that the Van Allen belts are not dangerous is you fly through them fast enough, which they didn’t. They also theorise that man can easily stand on the surface of a completely exposed, non atmospheric heavenly body such as the Moon and withstand solar bursts with levels of radioactive particles that are simply lethal and instantaneously fatal, and this not count for Neil & Buzz because NASA said it didn’t. We are going to need to suspend the laws of physics, nature and also relativity for a few weeks in 1969. Yes, that is extremely acceptable and I what I my suggesting a Lunar deception is Lunacy if you’ll excuse the very relevant pun.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Yet Apollo 11 and it’s crew breezed through these belts once on their way to the moon, then again returning to Earth, without one health issue and without one instrument being effected in the slightest. Hmmmm
"The Apollo missions marked the first event where humans traveled through the Van Allen belts, which was one of several radiation hazards known by mission planners. The astronauts had low exposure in the Van Allen belts due to the short period of time spent flying through them. The command module’s inner structure was an aluminum "sandwich" consisting of a welded aluminium inner skin, a thermally bonded honeycomb core, and a thin aluminium "face sheet". The steel honeycomb core and outer face sheets were thermally bonded to the inner skin.
In fact, the astronauts’ overall exposure was dominated by solar particles once outside the Earth’s magnetic field. The total radiation received by the astronauts varied from mission to mission but was measured to be between 0.16 and 1.14 rads (1.6 and 11.4 mGy), much less than the standard of 5 rem (50 mSv) per year set by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission for people who work with radioactivity."
—Bailey, J. Vernon. "Radiation Protection and Instrumentation". Biomedical Results of Apollo.
****
Good thing we learned about the belts in 1958. Probably helped them in future endeavors.
Do you believe the Russians landed Luna 16 on the moon and brought back rock and moon dust? Our samples were evaluated and matched theirs. This wasn’t a top-secret mission. Thousands upon thousands of people watched. Maybe when others return, you’ll have your answer.
I also think your misinterpreting Neil Armstrong’s statement Chappie. He spent his entire life discussing his walk on the moon, and certainly never hinted it was fake (except maybe in the following thread ). There is OVERWHELMING PROOF these men landed on the moon. I’ll sign off with my next post and leave it at that.
Conspiracy Theorist Convinces Neil Armstrong Moon Landing Was Faked
NEWS • Featured Section: Lies • Science & Technology • Space • ISSUE 45•36 • Aug 31, 2009
LEBANON, OHIO—Apollo 11 mission commander and famed astronaut Neil Armstrong shocked reporters at a press conference Monday, announcing he had been convinced that his historic first step on the moon was part of an elaborate hoax orchestrated by the United States government.
According to Armstrong, he was forced to reconsider every single detail of the monumental journey after watching a few persuasive YouTube videos, and reading several blog posts on conspiracy theorist Ralph Coleman’s website, OmissionControl.org.
"It only took a few hastily written paragraphs published by this passionate denier of mankind’s so-called ‘greatest technological achievement’ for me to realize I had been living a lie, " said a visibly emotional Armstrong, addressing reporters at his home. "It has become painfully clear to me that on July 20, 1969, the Lunar Module under the control of my crew did not in fact travel 250,000 miles over eight days, touch down on the moon, and perform various experiments, ushering in a new era for humanity. Instead, the entire thing was filmed on a soundstage, most likely in New Mexico."
"This is the only logical interpretation of the numerous inconsistencies in the grainy, 40-year-old footage," Armstrong added.
Amstrong was swayed by OmissionControl’s use of bolding and capital letters to highlight NASA’s many blatant fallacies.
Although Armstrong said he "could have sworn" he felt the effects of zero gravity while soaring out of the Earth’s atmosphere and through space, he now believed his memory must be flawed. He also admitted feeling "ashamed" that he had failed to notice the rippling of the American flag he and Buzz Aldrin planted on the surface, blaming his lack of awareness on the bulkiness of the spacesuit and his excitement about traveling to the "moon."
"That rippling is not possible in the vacuum of space," Armstrong said. "It must have been the wind from an air-conditioning duct that I didn’t recognize because you can’t hear a damn thing inside those helmets."
"This is all just common sense, people," he added. "It’s the moon. You can’t land on the moon."
In a symbolic display of his newfound skepticism, Armstrong then grabbed a collection of moon rocks he had kept as souvenirs and dramatically dumped them into a trash can.
One of the main arguments posited on Coleman’s website—that America could not, in 1969, have realistically possessed the technological capabilities needed to put a man on the moon—was reportedly one of the first things to cause the legendary astronaut a pang of doubt. Despite having spent thousands of hours training for the historic mission under the guidance of the world’s top scientists, technicians, and pilots, Armstrong said he knew the conspiracy theories were true after learning that website author Coleman was "quite the engineering buff."
"Yes, at the time I thought those thousands of NASA employees were working round the clock for the same incredible goal, but if anyone would know what was really going on, it would be Ralph Coleman," Armstrong said of the 31-year-old part-time librarian’s assistant. "He knows a lot more about faked moon landings than I ever could. He’s been researching the subject on the Internet for years."
"Literally years," he added.
Addressing another inconsistency brought to light by OmissionControl, Armstrong explained he was probably so focused on piloting the lunar module that he failed to notice that one of the moon rocks visible in footage of the landing appears to have the letter ‘C’ stamped on it. An emotional Armstrong said that the only possible explanation for this detail was that the rock actually came from NASA’s prop department.
"They forgot to turn it over," Armstrong said, removing his eyeglasses to wipe away tears. "Those lying bastards at NASA went through all the trouble to fake the moon landing, but they forgot to turn over one little prop rock. And now the whole damn thing’s blowing up in their faces."
Although Armstrong initially questioned why the U.S. would attempt such an elaborate cover-up, he cited one overarching explanation provided by Coleman: that it was a ploy to defeat the Soviet Union and fulfill the Illuminati’s plan to unify the world’s banks and control the dissemination of information.
"Just ask Ralph Coleman," Armstrong said. "He’ll answer any questions you have."
To conclude the press conference, Armstrong showed reporters footage of his first steps on the moon to demonstrate that the most daming evidence was "right under our noses." Speeding up the tape and replaying the graceful moonwalk several times in a row, Armstrong explained that the iconic images of humanity’s triumphant dance with the cosmos was actually just a film of him walking backwards, slowed down, and played in reverse.
"What other explanation could there be?" Armstrong asked. "It’s all right here. Everything is all right here if you’d just open your damn eyes and see!"
Added Armstrong, "I suppose it really was one small step for man, one giant lie for mankind."
Even an expert for the Kodak camera film they used said the film in the cameras being unprotected from the solar radiation would have damaged the film beyond repair and rendered the photographs useless and bleached out and blank. But he doesn’t know what he’s talking about either I suppose. Lol.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Tahoe if your source is NASA, or any other Government affiliated agency, it isn’t independent in the least. Here is the facts about Earth Orbit that is below the start of the Van Allen belts….
"Without the protection of Earth’s atmosphere and magnetosphere astronauts are exposed to high levels of radiation. A year in low-earth orbit results in a dose of radiation 10 times that of the annual dose on earth" That’s before you even contemplate actually going into the radioactive belts themselves!
" Solar flare events (though rare) can give a fatal radiation dose in minutes. It is thought that protective shielding and protective drugs may ultimately lower the risks to an acceptable level."
The astronauts protective shielding would have needed to be a wall of led several inches thick to withstand such solar activity. The Apollo 11 crew had one eighth of an inch thick aluminium protective wall layering. As stated, a solar storm/flare would deliver a dose of radiation to a man on the moon that would be of a level such that it would be fatal within minutes of coming into contact.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Tahoe if your source is NASA, or any other Government affiliated agency, it isn’t independent in the least. Here is the facts about Earth Orbit that is below the start of the Van Allen belts….
"Without the protection of Earth’s atmosphere and magnetosphere astronauts are exposed to high levels of radiation. A year in low-earth orbit results in a dose of radiation 10 times that of the annual dose on earth" That’s before you even contemplate actually going into the radioactive belts themselves!
" Solar flare events (though rare) can give a fatal radiation dose in minutes. It is thought that protective shielding and protective drugs may ultimately lower the risks to an acceptable level."
The astronauts protective shielding would have needed to be a wall of led several inches thick to withstand such solar activity. The Apollo 11 crew had one eighth of an inch thick aluminium protective wall layering. As stated, a solar storm/flare would deliver a dose of radiation to a man on the moon that would be of a level such that it would be fatal within minutes of coming into contact.
Who are you quoting Chappie?? I provided my source.
I’m just glad we have the technology to have a space shuttle that can land on the International Space Station and we can send equipment to Mars, and a Hubble telescope that can travel the galaxy…I think it’s amazing and I believe the moon to be no different.
I did read the wIKI article Tahoe a majority of which seemed to support a hoax. the other link takes forever to load and did not .
I didn’t post the Wiki article…that stuff can be written by any ole’ person.
To follow are the two links I posted…not that it will influence you either way:
The Great Moon Hoax
Moon rocks and common sense prove Apollo astronauts really did visit the Moon.
NASA
Marshall Space Flight Center
Link to story audioListen to this story (requires RealPlayer)
— Last week my phone rang. It was my mother … and she was upset.
"Tony!" she exclaimed, "I just came from the coffee shop and there’s an [adjective omitted] man down there who says NASA never landed on the Moon. Everyone was talking about it … I just didn’t know what to say!"
That last bit was hard to swallow, I thought. Mom’s never at a loss for words.
But even more incredible was the controversy that swirled through her small-town diner and places like it across the country. After a long absence, the "Moon Hoax" was back.
All the buzz about the Moon began on February 15th when Fox television aired a program called Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon? Guests on the show argued that NASA technology in the 1960’s wasn’t up to the task of a real Moon landing. Instead, anxious to win the Space Race any way it could, NASA acted out the Apollo program in movie studios. Neil Armstrong’s historic first steps on another world, the rollicking Moon Buggy rides, even Al Shepard’s arcing golf shot over Fra Mauro– it was all a fake!
Fortunately the Soviets didn’t think of the gag first. They could have filmed their own fake Moon landings and really embarrassed the free world.
Shows like Conspiracy Theory ought to be as tongue-in-cheek as they sound. Unfortunately, there was an earnest feel to the Fox broadcast, enough to make you wonder if the program’s makers might have fallen under their own spell.
According to the show NASA was a blundering movie producer thirty years ago. For example, Conspiracy Theory pundits pointed out a seeming discrepancy in Apollo imagery: Pictures of astronauts transmitted from the Moon don’t include stars in the dark lunar sky — an obvious production error! What happened? Did NASA film-makers forget to turn on the constellations? Most photographers already know the answer: It’s difficult to capture something very bright and something else very dim on the same piece of film — typical emulsions don’t have enough "dynamic range." Astronauts striding across the bright lunar soil in their sunlit spacesuits were literally dazzling. Setting a camera with the proper exposure for a glaring spacesuit would naturally render background stars too faint to see.
Here’s another one: Pictures of Apollo astronauts erecting a US flag on the Moon show the flag bending and rippling. How can that be? After all, there’s no breeze on the Moon….
Not every waving flag needs a breeze — at least not in space. When astronauts were planting the flagpole they rotated it back and forth to better penetrate the lunar soil (anyone who’s set a blunt tent-post will know how this works). So of course the flag waved! Unfurling a piece of rolled-up cloth with stored angular momentum will naturally result in waves and ripples — no breeze required!
The Fox documentary went on with plenty more specious points. You can find detailed rebuttals to each of them at BadAstronomy.com and the Moon Hoax web page. (These are independent sites, not sponsored by NASA.)
The best rebuttal to allegations of a "Moon Hoax," however, is common sense. Evidence that the Apollo program really happened is compelling: A dozen astronauts (laden with cameras) walked on the Moon between 1969 and 1972. Nine of them are still alive and can testify to their experience. They didn’t return from the Moon empty-handed, either. Just as Columbus carried a few hundred natives back to Spain as evidence of his trip to the New World, Apollo astronauts brought 841 pounds of Moon rock home to Earth.
"Moon rocks are absolutely unique," says Dr. David McKay, Chief Scientist for Planetary Science and Exploration at NASA’s Johnson Space Center (JSC). McKay is a member of the group that oversees the Lunar Sample Laboratory Facility at JSC where most of the Moon rocks are stored. "They differ from Earth rocks in many respects," he added. "For example," explains Dr. Marc Norman, a lunar geologist at the University of Tasmania, "lunar samples have almost no water trapped in their crystal structure, and common substances such as clay minerals that are ubiquitous on Earth are totally absent in Moon rocks."
"We’ve found particles of fresh glass in Moon rocks that were produced by explosive volcanic activity and by meteorite impacts over 3 billion years ago," added Norman. "The presence of water on Earth rapidly breaks down such volcanic glass in only a few million years. These rocks must have come from the Moon!"
Right: A glass spherule (about 0.6 mm in diameter) produced by a meteorite impact into lunar soil. Features on the surface are glass splashes, welded mineral fragments, and microcraters produced by space weathering processes at the surface of the moon.
Fortunately not all of the evidence needs a degree in chemistry or geology to appreciate. An average person holding a Moon rock in his or her hand can plainly see that the specimen came from another world.
"Apollo moon rocks are peppered with tiny craters from meteoroid impacts," explains McKay. This could only happen to rocks from a planet with little or no atmosphere… like the Moon.
Meteoroids are nearly-microscopic specks of comet dust that fly through space at speeds often exceeding 50,000 mph — ten times faster than a speeding bullet. They pack a considerable punch, but they’re also extremely fragile. Meteoroids that strike Earth’s atmosphere disintegrate in the rarefied air above our stratosphere. (Every now and then on a dark night you can see one — they’re called meteors.) But the Moon doesn’t have an atmosphere to protect it. The tiny space bullets can plow directly into Moon rocks, forming miniature and unmistakable craters.
"There are plenty of museums, including the Smithsonian and others, where members of the public can touch and examine rocks from the Moon," says McKay. "You can see the little meteoroid craters for yourself."
Nick-named "Big Muley," this 11.7 kg Moon rock was the largest returned to Earth by Apollo astronauts. One side of Big Muley was peppered with meteoroid "zap pits." Below right: A close-up view of 1 mm diameter zap pits shows tiny craters lined with black glass surrounded by a white halo of shocked rock. [more]
Just as meteoroids constantly bombard the Moon so do cosmic rays, and they leave their fingerprints on Moon rocks, too. "There are isotopes in Moon rocks, isotopes we don’t normally find on Earth, that were created by nuclear reactions with the highest-energy cosmic rays," says McKay. Earth is spared from such radiation by our protective atmosphere and magnetosphere.
Even if scientists wanted to make something like a Moon rock by, say, bombarding an Earth rock with high energy atomic nuclei, they couldn’t. Earth’s most powerful particle accelerators can’t energize particles to match the most potent cosmic rays, which are themselves accelerated in supernova blastwaves and in the violent cores of galaxies.
Indeed, says McKay, faking a Moon rock well enough to hoodwink an international army of scientists might be more difficult than the Manhattan Project. "It would be easier to just go to the Moon and get one," he quipped.
And therein lies an original idea: Did NASA go to the Moon to collect props for a staged Moon landing? It’s an interesting twist on the conspiracy theory that TV producers might consider for their next episode of the Moon Hoax. "I have here in my office a 10-foot high stack of scientific books full of papers about the Apollo Moon rocks," added McKay. "Researchers in thousands of labs have examined Apollo Moon samples — not a single paper challenges their origin! And these aren’t all NASA employees, either. We’ve loaned samples to scientists in dozens of countries [who have no reason to cooperate in any hoax]."
Even Dr. Robert Park, Director of the Washington office of the American Physical Society and a noted critic of NASA’s human space flight program, agrees with the space agency on this issue. "The body of physical evidence that humans did walk on the Moon is simply overwhelming."
"Fox should stick to making cartoons," agreed Marc Norman. "I’m a big fan of The Simpsons!"
…. the other link takes forever to load and did not .
And here is the other article about photos of flags on the moon as well as other equipment and trails! SIX MISSIONS…not just Apollo 11.
Scientist’s cameras find 5 flags on moon
By Anne Ryman, The Arizona Republic Updated 7/31/2012 4:41 PM
For years, scientists and space buffs have wondered what happened to the six American flags planted on the moon during the historic Apollo missions.
(several images posted)
This image taken from the camera of the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter shows one of the flags planted during Apollo missions to the moon.
Now, thanks to high-resolution cameras orbiting the moon, the mystery is solved: All the flags but one are still standing. The exception is the flag for Apollo 11, the historic first human moon landing in 1969, said professor Mark Robinson of Arizona State University, lead scientist for the cameras aboard the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter.
The lack of an Apollo 11 flag is consistent with astronaut Buzz Aldrin’s memory of the famous mission. Aldrin said the flag blew over from the rocket blast when astronauts left the surface.
Robinson previously had doubted whether any flags would be visible. "Personally, I was a bit surprised that the flags survived the harsh ultraviolet light and temperatures of the lunar surface, but they did. What they look like is another question (badly faded?)," Robinson wrote in a recent blog on the orbiter’s website.
Images taken by the orbiter show the flags and their shadows but aren’t detailed enough to reveal whether the Stars and Stripes are still visible.
The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter is an unmanned spacecraft that has been circling the moon for more than three years. The minivan-size orbiter has equipment that is photographing the moon’s surface, recording temperatures and measuring radiation.
The photographs are being used to map the surface and could be used to identify future landing sites, although the United States now has no plans to send humans back to the moon.
NASA’s Apollo program included multiple launches in the late 1960s and early 1970s and was designed mainly to land humans on the moon and bring them back to Earth safely. Six missions accomplished this. Others were not as successful.
A cabin fire on Apollo 1 killed three astronauts during a launch-pad test in 1967. Apollo 13 was unable to land after an oxygen tank exploded and forced the crew to return to Earth in 1970. Even with the mishaps, the Apollo program is viewed as widely successful and credited with igniting a generation’s interest in space. The last manned mission to the moon was Apollo 17 in December 1972.
Signs of the missions are still visible on the moon’s surface. Photos taken by the lunar orbiter show tracks made by lunar rovers and equipment left behind, including backpacks jettisoned by astronauts. Images taken of the Apollo 17 site show the astronauts’ foot trails. (bolding mine)
I posted the wiki link (I’m an addict) – and it’s got a lot of excellent stuff in, including the film protection info, references from the guy who actually discovered the Van Allen belts (I can’t remember his name – that’s a joke) – how the photo’s were "improved" and thus gained some imperfections and oddities along the way – alllllllll that stuff.
Not that I don’t enjoy a hoax theory, as I’ve said already.
It’s just that this one’s bogus.
Well at the end of the day there is no way to claim beyond all doubt either way. There are those that gladly accept the official and ‘acceptable’ moon claim because the possibility of hoaxing such a huge and monumental event is simply not even thinkable and that I can understand, but others will choose to believe differently and be labelled as the conspiracy theorist. Whether these anarchist like people base such opinions on the photograph anomalies, the rock proporting to be on the moon seeming to be inscribed with a letter C as if some cheap prop, or the scientific reasons such as I do of the radioactive belts being one lethal obstacle that is just the beginning as once the belts are cleared you into the open safe Zone, well, if safe means totally unprotected to corona ejections, solar bursts of super hot radioactive particle’s and even without the sun not playing nice and holding back from spitting anything in your direction, the moon not having an atmosphere would expose the astronauts to high levels of radioactive energy anyway.
If we could easily make the moon almost 50 years ago, I would think that by 2013 getting a man to Mars would be child’s play.
Anyway, George Bush told us what we’re to do when he announced "Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories." As everyone knows, if ever you want to look to the advise of a intellectual enigma, look no further than George W. Bush.
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
George ‘Dubya’ did Visit Wales once but I missed it. Here he is addressing the people of Wales:
George and Tony joint press conference. Brings a tear to the eye doesn’t it lol:
"So it’s sorta social. Demented and sad, but social, right?" Judd Nelson.
Well at the end of the day there is no way to claim beyond all doubt either way.
There is..it’s the photos we have with our powerful equipment today. They prove we were there…but, I suppose people will always claim it was faked, even if Earthlings sent people back to the moon.
smithy–I’m not totally against wiki, and I do use it when people provide their source of info. I should have phrased that differently.
chappie–still wondering who you quoted…??
Tahoe – no harm, no foul.