That’s what I like about this case. It’s been solved so many times, and yet people keep working on it.

-glurk

And all of these Authors keep making money, and they don’t even have to be right. sort of like the weather man

Isn’t that the truth!!!

Just to clarify, I had an opportunity early on to go with a traditional publisher but the process would have taken over a year. While I would have made money doing it the traditional way, I was concerned the killer would die so I decided to forego a profit for the good of the case.

She may be a former detective, but so was the guy who falsely accused his father of being Zodiac and the Black Dahlia Killer. And detectives have no special training in codes.

Ahh, but…….

"There are so many crackpots and theories, but we take the ones that come in from ex- or current law enforcement a little more seriously," said Pat McMahon, a detective with the sheriff’s office in Napa County, where the Zodiac stabbed two people, one fatally, in 1969.

http://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Zodiac-sleuths-with-police-skills-keep-case-alive-2355704.php

Soze

Which makes sense.

If ones only interest is the zodiac killer case and not helping in any other more low profile cases you will be seen as a creepy zodiac fanatic looking for fame and you will be pushed aside. Rightfully so. Idiots never even visited a crime scene or stepped foot in California to physically search out info but hey here’s my f*cking book. Disgusting. Profiting off dead people. It pisses me off so much as I actually help on many cases for the right reason – not the money or fame or attention. There are monsters just as bad if not worse than the zodiac. He just so happened to get the coverage.

Would be nice for this detective to solve one of the countless cold cases that probably lies within her own jurisdiction. But oh wait that would involve a selfless extension of help devoid of ego or financial gain… And well… That wouldn’t benefit her much huh.

Sorry I’m a little nasty today bc the effing cold case unit at long beach was shut down again bc of poor funding. More victims forgotten. There’s plenty of cold case units going belly up everywhere. It takes community/citizens to help solve many crimes at this point.

Just to clarify I have not made any money nor was that my motive for writing this book. I even discuss in my book that I felt this was the only way I could get the information out because only the media and/or sleuths such as yourself can bring this case to closure. I am not saying I was necessarily right in my method, it is certainly up for a philosophical debate, one I agonized over myself for some time. But I also should point out I solved quite a few cold cases in my own jurisdiction not to mention countless homicides, sexual batteries and countless child crimes. I am very proud of the work that I did and the many victims I have helped. Many of them have my personal cell number and keep in regular contact with me. So, I understand you don’t know me and you were just venting but hope you can cut me a little slack.

All the best

The Zodiac built this "frenzy" by killing, writing cryptic ciphers and letters, and managing to remain a mystery for all these years. Some of us (myself included) would have eventually found the individual cases and worked those individual cases had the Zodiac NOT wrote cryptic ciphers and letters. Its the cryptic ciphers and letter writing that sucks everyone else in. Its the mystery of it all.

Now while the Zodiac may have "built" the frenzy, the media in my opinion, promoted it by publishing his work (ciphers and letters). Its further fueled by law enforcement remaining silent about the details of the crimes (excluding ciphers and letters). You would think that 20 years into it they would say "OK. This case is going nowhere. Let’s take this to the public, hold back certain pieces of information, and see what new leads come our way (again, excluding, the ciphers and letters)." But no. We are now nearly 50 years into this nonsense and " kooks" as they call it are coming out of the woodwork on almost a daily basis.

So, while I may sit back and laugh at the crazy ass stories that get published, I am actually more offended that the above mentioned people first made these kooks and are now punishing them in the public eye. And if you think that you and others of this board are immune then i say think again.

Sorry but I just really despise the name Zodiac and everything it implies.

As far as the book writing and making money…..

I don’t have a problem really of people writing a book, telling of their adventures, their finds, suspects, etc. They spent their time and their money researching this case. There is nothing wrong in trying to collect on that. Where the problem lies is in taste; the working of a case to simply promote ones self by using your previous experience to make a buck. That’s sickening.

Soze

I did not work on this case intentionally. It actually came to me during a class I was attending. But I respect your opinion.

Someone amended the Zodiac Killer wiki article with this:

In a 2015 book, former sheriff’s deputy Kimberly McGath proposed Dennis Rader, also known as the "BTK killer", as a Zodiac suspect, based on general similarities and other circumstantial evidence. Rader was stationed overseas as a member of the Air Force from 1968 through 1970.

You actually found this before I did. Are you an investigator? If not you would make a great one.

Kim –

Let me say I respect your service as a law enforcement officer. And it seems you had good motives in getting involved in the case. But having put forth a theory and a book, you have to understand those of us who have been involved with case for many years, some of us over a decade, we are skeptical. We have seen many people come forward with books claiming to have solved the case. Usually with little to no solid supporting evidence. And as you were warned, people here are honest and direct. So sometimes our good healthy skepticism might have a little cynicism about people coming forward claiming to have solved the case.

But perhaps you can give us an outline of your case. Or answer questions we might have.

Lets set aside for the moment that the 24 year old Rader in 1969 does not look like the only confirmed sketch of Zodiac, the SF sketch. Or that witnesses put the age of Zodiac as broadly 25 to 45, with most coming in at 27 to 35. Lets also set aside that the BTK crimes were mostly home invasions against adult couples with children and had overtly sexual acts of rape, while the confirmed Z crimes took place outdoors in public places, against teen or young adult couples, with no rape or overt sexuality. But these are serious differences, and I would like to hear your take on them.

The biggest problem most Z researchers, and police, would have with your theory is the fact that Rader was in the military from 1968-1970, overseas in Japan, for the period of all 5 confirmed Zodiac murders and at least 11 confirmed mailings. (Though I am also curious where Rader was in 1966-1967 for the Bates murder and letters, and 1974 for those confirmed Zodiac letters.) That is a huge practical problem to overcome. And as you are presenting the theory, the burden of proof rests with you to show it could be possible.

Did you talk to other enlisted airman stationed with Rader in Japan? If so, what did they about the frequency of flights to the SF area? And from the SF area to Japan? And how easy was it for enlisted airman to catch a ride on such flights? In my experience in the military as an enlisted person, you could not simply attach yourself to a military flight. In rare instances it might be possible, very rarely and under special circumstances, with officer and HQ approval, to very seldom fly on an ad hoc, space available basis, were you wait several days for an opening, on long, slow, bumpy flights that might make other stops first.

What was the policy and practice in Japan from 1968 to 1970? Again, based on my experience and knowledge what you propose is simply not the way it was done. The military is not a private air force for the whims of enlisted people. And when it was done it was usually because that was where you needed to be because of orders. Usually for orders or leave travel, you flew commercial. You could not simply say, as a lowly enlisted person, "Gee I would love to go to Florida, I’ve got some leave stored up, let me hop on a cargo plane." Only if you had officer approval, HQ approval, had connections, pulled some strings, and even then you go on a wait list for an available flight, could be days or weeks.

Zodiac could not have just walked off a plane and done these murders. Zodiac knew the spots where kids parked their cars to make out. He knew the lake spots where people went. He seemed to know the places and hours that couples frequented these spots. He read the newspaper coverage of the murders in the days after the murders, and responded in his letters to things he read in the newspapers. So he would have to have been on the ground to develop some knowledge of the area, the roads, the make out spots, read newspaper coverage after, etc.,etc. But lets set some of that aside, for now, for the most part anyway. At an absolute minimum, Zodiac had to be in the SF area on these dates:

MURDERS:

December 20, 1968
July 4, 1969
September 27, 1969
October 12, 1969

CONFIRMED MAILINGS

July 31, 1969
Aug, 1969
October 13, 1969
November 8, 1969
December 20, 1969
April 20, 1970
April 28, 1970
June 26, 1970
July 24, 1970
July 26, 1970
October 27, 1970

Military cargo flights from Japan to California would be a day long process, at least, each way, assuming no other stops. And assuming flights were available each way on that very day, no waiting several days. When he gets to town he must get a motel, and a car, and a gun. How does he do that? How does he afford that on an airman’s very small salary? He must spend some time there to identify the areas, cruise for victims, etc. So we have at least 15 days he must be in SF for murders and mailings. We must allow at least one day for air travel each way, one for murders and at least one day for getting motel, car, gun, stalking and cruising, etc. (Realistically it would be several days or even a week but I will say absolute minimum of one).

So for the four murder attacks, he needs at a bare minimum of four days for each one. That is 16 days right there. Then we have at least 11 confirmed mailings, so just allowing one day travel, one day to mail, one day to return, that is 3 days each, so 33 days. A total of, at an absolute bare minimum, assuming return flights were available each day he needed them no waiting (which is very unlikely) 49 days. Leave policies during the Vietnam War era would have been more restrictive, but even assuming peacetime leave policies, and that he used no leave prior to 68 or after 70, the 49 days alone is probably at least twice as much leave time as he would have actually had available in 68-70.

And the 49 days is not realistic at all. In several instances, Zodiac read newspaper articles or columns about the case, and responded to them in letters. So he could not have left SF the day after a murder. He needs to be there to read the article, and then a few days later write a letter about it. And realistically he needs more than one day to get a car, a gun, cruise an area, find victims, etc. Realistically it would be more like a minimum of at least 80 days needed, not 49. So not more than double available leave time, but quadruple available leave time. And I am not even including the probable Z crime of the attempted abduction of Kathleen Johns, or the possible Z crime of the abduction/murder of Donna Lass, or other unconfirmed but possible Z murders and mailings.

And again, for enlisted men flying on military flights was on an ad hoc space available basis. To make even this impossible scenario work, he must get a flight from Japan to SF, do his murder, then go to what nearby Air Force Base(?), request space on a flight, and THAT DAY, space is available and he is approved and flies. It just does not work like that. There would not be flights with space available going from SF to Japan every day. Probably not every week, more like maybe every month. Did you do research and find out how often there were military flights from SF to Japan in 1968-1970?

IMO and based on my knowledge and experience in the military, and the facts, with all due respect, what you propose is simply impossible.

Did you get a copy of Rader’s DD 214? His other service records? Did you talk to men who served with him, who could easily confirm or disprove something so memorable and unusual, that he had enough leave available in 1968-1970 and that he was known for being absent from duty for large stretches of such time, and known for being able to hop on military flights for free, this often?

The only way it would make sense is if he was TDY at an air force base in CA. In other words, his military paperwork says he was attached to some unit in Japan but they suddenly needed his MOS in CA for a few months, so they shipped him to CA for a while. TDY does happen in the military. But it would have had to happen 4 times for this to make sense. You’ll have to prove he was in CA, Kim, before I even get mildly interested in Dennis Rader as a suspect.

I am on my way to an open house, but will get back on the forum tonight to answer these, hope you are all having a happy Valentine’s Day!

Is there any evidence at all that Dennis Rader ever set foot in the state of California—ever? Even if he was only taking his scout troop to Disneyland?

I agree with the posters who write we first have to establish that Mr. Rader was in California, even better…was in the area’s of the crimescenes at that time.

I think the odds are very against BTK being Zodiac.
Why turn into BTK when you are top at the list as Zodiac?
Also the M.O. of BTK is quite different than that of the Zodiac.
I really don’t think BTK was Zodiac…

AK Wilks, I do not agree with you saying the Z composite doesn’t look like Rader at that time. Here two of the composites (the Stine composite without glasses) compared to BTK in 1968.

But let’s face it, we can find a lot of guys that looked a lot like the composite at the time of the killings. I do not have a lot of trust on the composite being the key to solving this case.

So again, I am very sceptical towards the theory that the Zodiac is actually BTK.

Right. Rader looks somewhat like the SF sketch, but so does virtually any non-hippie man of average features in the sixties. Rader does look more like the Lake sketch. Kim admitted she used the Lake sketch because it resembles Rader more than the SF sketch. My issue was we don’t know if the Lake sketch is actually Zodiac. We do know the SF sketch is Zodiac, so my point was that is the one that should be used.

The sketch is not the problem. Rader reasonably fits some aspects of the SF sketch, though he was only 24 in 1969. The main issue is Rader was in Japan for all 5 confirmed Zodiac murders and 11 confirmed mailings. Hopefully Kim will address that issue, and my specific objections and questions this evening.

Sketches are in their very nature problematic and it is difficult for me to picture Rader with a crew cut, however, being in the air force at the time, he may have at some point had such a hair style and he does wear glasses, he also was known to disguise himself, but either way, sketches are tools and can be useful or damaging to a case depending upon the circumstances.
If you pull up the Napa sketch and Rader’s military pic, they are very, very similar, there is also the blue and silver car, possibly an Air Force vehicle, there is also the mention in one of the Zodiac letters about the airplane cement, of note Rader was a mechanic in the Air Force and also worked on model airplanes
As far as being able to establish whether he was in California or not, depends upon the public to come forward with information because military records are not that specific.
I would not have interviewed anyone on the matter including Rader himself because it is not my place to do so. I am not the "case agent" of course and I feel such would be inappropriate for me to do. I have worked high profile cases before and I never minded people proposing theories or writing in forums such as this, but it was frustrating when people would interview witnesses. Especially because they often would ask leading questions which could taint the person’s testimony. But just because it bugged me I still appreciated people’s interest and their genuine desire to help. This comes to my philosophy on working cold cases and why I wrote the book in the first place. I will explain in my next post.

The reason I felt compelled to write a book rather than just share the information with the investigators was a decision I made after much thought. I even write about in the book my concern that the investigators would dismiss me. And in fact, San Fran is the only department that even responded to me. This is not at all a criticism of any of the investigators. I understand how hard it is to work a full case load and have cold cases on top of that.
This is just based on my experience. Even if an investigator was gun-ho about investigating my theory, there could be supervisors who put a stop to it for a plethora of reasons. I felt truly the only way for this theory to be seriously investigated is for "amateur sleuths" and or the media or the family members to pick the theory apart. I knew it would be impractical if not impossible for me to prove the theory due to resources or lack thereof and because I do not have access to the case, evidence, etc.
Another reason I wrote the book was in the hopes of gaining more assistance for the working of cold cases in general. My philosophy is these victims are often forgotten and not enough resources are allocated for these victims. It is also my belief that citizens, members of the community are of great assistance to police and often solve cases on their own and are a vital part of the process. I am advocating for more public involvement.
I understand many people have spent years working this case whether they are law enforcement, citizens, etc. I don’t ever think it is a waste of time because experience gained helps with other cases whether a particular case is solved or not.
I am open to a myriad of possibilities and only hope that my theory either helps solve the case or creates more of a buzz about other cold cases or helps in some way to further the understanding of serial killers. It is in the analysis of the serial killer’s mind that assists in solving and even sometimes preventing other crimes. If a serial killer is caught earlier, victims can be spared. These are of course my hopes not saying any of my goals will ever be reached, but that was my intention.
I would not have proposed the theory, however, if I did not think I presented a very strong circumstantial case. I believe based on my experience at the minimum there was enough for a judge to sign a court order. There are hundreds if not thousands of things connecting the two men and it got to the point whenever I looked at something else, I found more similarities. I could have spent the rest of my life researching, trying to prove it, etc. but I have other cases and felt it was time to move on.

Is there any evidence at all that Dennis Rader ever set foot in the state of California—ever? Even if he was only taking his scout troop to Disneyland?

It’s interesting you brought up the boy scouts because Lake Berryessa I believe had a boy scout facility there, of note too the location of the murders in 1963 is about one hour north of the film location of Beach Party which was released in 1963. The movie was not out yet but the trailer had been released. Rader was obsessed with Annette Funicello and confessed to an FBI agent that he fantasized about driving out to California, kidnapping her, bonding her up, etc. I believe Rader first became interested in murdering couples because he fantasized about his favorite mouseketeer and when he saw "his girl" with Frankie Avalon he may have incorporated getting Frankie out of the picture so to speak, just a thought

Imagine this; Dennis Rader is sitting in his cell, isolated and segregated. He is most certainly going to spend the entirety of his life in prison. What could possibly be greater than admitting he was the Zodiac, all that extra notoriety and attention that Zodiac would have loved. Dennis Rader could solve the 340 Cipher, and the other two codes for us, explain the Mount Diablo Map, explain the Halloween Card etc etc and run us through all the murders and answer all the questions everybody has been asking for 50 odd years. Dennis Rader or the Zodiac, if you believe they are one and the same, would love the attention and infamy all over again, the publicity would go through the roof, after all what have you got to lose. On the other hand you can sit in your cell sucking your thumb, counting the cockroaches and staring at cement walls. Both Rader and Zodiac courted and bathed in the attention, yet here is Rader failing to capitalize on the greatest mystery in the last 50 years, the reason, because he isn’t the Zodiac, and that goes for Ted Kaczynski too.

Hi Kim,

Seeing you won’t take an active role in getting information about Rader being in California makes it much harder to accept your theory as truth.

I see being him in California as the most important fact that should be checked. This piece of evidence is one of the cards in the lower level of the cardhouse called your theory. If that card is not existing your cardhouse falls apart really quickly.

I hope you will take an active role in finding your missing card of your cardhouse or be prepared to pick the fallen cards up to put them away from the playing table.