It is very common for criminals to distance themselve from their crimes once they are incarcerated. Rader quickly learned that he lost his wife, his job, his family, and based on his writings once in jail it is apparent he at least through his writings identified with his Christian "side" Check out his jail mail and you will see what I mean.

Often murderers confess and then almost immediately once in jail recant. Rader only confessed to the murders in which he was confronted with DNA.

As far as proving he was in California, the only way this will happen is if someone comes forward with information. There are not any records that I am aware of, just are there are no records of where a lot of people were in the 60, 70’s etc. But there is no evidence to the contrary either.

Just some thoughts

Kim, when you say "There is no evidence to the contrary" that Dennis Rader was in California to commit the Zodiac crimes and write all the Zodiac letters, I have to disagree vehemently. What about his military record, which documents that he was across the Pacific Ocean in Japan at the time?

Yes, I will concede he was stationed overseas, what I mean by that is that no one has offered evidence where he was on a particular date, keeping in mind the military map showing Riverside, Montana, Lackland, etc. but how bout this what if we agree at this point I cannot prove he was in California but I can show some supporting evidence that he was there
Rader told one of his victims that he was "wanted" out of California, wanted his keys, his wallet, etc.
Very reminiscent of what Z told his victims that he was wanted out of Montana, wanted his keys, his money etc.
I believe Rader said California is because he knew he had committed crimes there and never expected this victim to survive

But how bout if we can just agree at this point I can’t prove he was in California and no one at least to my knowledge can prove he wasn’t on a certain date, yes he was "stationed" overseas but of course it is part of my theory he traveled while in the military,

how bout we consider other evidence…. let me know what you think

Well that is not true. You could do a FOIA for Rader’s DD 214 and other records. They would show how much leave he had available in 68-70 and how much he used.

We know where Rader was, he was in Japan. If you do what I did in this thread, count the confirmed Zodiac murders and mailings that happened when he was in Japan, you come to the conclusion it was impossible for him to have been Zodiac.

A 747 can go from Tokyo to SF in 10-11 hours. For a big, slow military cargo plane like a C-130, it would take at least 18 hours. Also this period is the height of the Vietnam War. Planes would be coming back empty sometimes from Japan. But planes going into Japan would usually be full of men and equipment for the war and our Japanese bases. Did you make any inquiry into how often planes with space available left from SF to Japan? Did you research what were the policies and practices for enlisted men to get rides on military planes? Based on my military experience what you are proposing is incorrect. Rader could not come to SF, do a murder, then go to a base and expect to hop on a plane the next day. Planes with space available would not be leaving the SF area every day. If he got approval he would go on a space available wait list. He might have to wait several days, or several weeks. Even if he lucked out and only had to wait a day each time, the Z murders and mailings would require him to be in California two to three times as much as his maximum leave would allow.

In a 12 month period, from July 1969 to July 1970, there were 4 Zodiac attacks and 10 confirmed mailings. Some were days apart. Some of the mailings reference newspaper accounts that came out days after the murders. How much time would a killer need to get to know the area, know the location and hours of make out spots, cruise the areas, get a car, get a gun? In that one year period Rader would need to be on the ground in SF at least 80 days. Really I think it would be more like at least 120, but let’s stick with 80. During the war leave time was often cancelled or restricted. But even assuming peacetime leave and him not using any before or after, Rader would have a maximum of 30 days leave in that 12 month period.

It is simply impossible for him to have been the Zodiac.

But yes lay out your evidence. The wallet thing is interesting but likely a product of Rader reading about Zodiac and copying that phrase. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I and I think most Z researchers will not be able to get over him being in Japan.

It is not up to us to find evidence that he was in Japan on a specific day. The burden of proof rests with you to show he was in California, or at least based on flight practices and his leave time it was possible for him to have been in California for the confirmed Zodiac murders and mailings. From what I know and see, IMO and based on the facts, it is impossible for him to have been Zodiac.

But yes, feel free to lay out your case and other evidence.

You have to prove he was in California. Otherwise you don’t even have a theory. If somebody was actually doing a real book on this subject they would research whether Rader even traveled at all from Japan. This (hypothetical) writer/researcher would find Rader’s fellow airmen in Japan and find out his travelling habits. They’re still alive. They would remember.

Well, I’ve explained why I couldn’t do that, so guess there’s not much more I can say on that but I do agree with you, if it’s proven he was not there, no matter how much circumstantial evidence I have, the house of cards as was put will fall

Hope you guys are having a happy Valentine’s Day

Kim you said "if it’s proven he was not there (in California)", then you admit the house of cards falls and Rader is not a viable suspect for Zodiac.

Well I think it’s proven the number of days needed to be on the ground in the SF area far exceeds his maximum available leave. An absolute minimum of 80 days needed for air travel and being on the ground in SF for the July 69 -July 70 period, 4 murder attacks and 10 confirmed mailings. Even assuming space available flights from SF to Japan within a day of each murder or mailing (highly, highly unlikely), even assuming peacetime leave (impossible) and him not using any before or after (unlikely), he would have a maximum of 30 days leave available in that time frame.

Peacetime leave accrues at 2.5 days per month, a maximum of 30 days in any 12 month period. He could not have accumulated more than 30 days in peacetime, let alone wartime, as the military has a use it or lose it policy regarding leave. With all due respect, you would have known this had you talked to a serviceman, done some research or posted your theory on a message board like this before writing a book.

Over the past several years, many people have come out with books claiming to have solved the Zodiac case. Two of the authors were formerly in law enforcement, Hodel and Lafferty. Several of the books pegged thier father, stepfather or ex-husband as the Zodiac. All of the books suffered from incomplete research, lack of hard evidence, extravagant claims, illogical ideas and in many instances misleading or false evidence. In one instance a book was based in large part on one handwriting sample from a marriage license, which ZKS member Mike R proved was not from the suspect, but the priest who officiated at the suspect’s wedding!

So you can see why many of us who have spent a decade or more researching the case wish writers would join a message board like this one before writing a book claiming to solve the case. The would be writers would have learned more about the case, and had their theories and evidence vetted, tested and questioned. And in many cases shown to be incomplete, misleading or wrong.

But go ahead and present your other evidence and ideas. I would be interested in them and I’m sure some others would be as well. And learn more about the Zodiac case here. We have many topics on different theories, suspects, victims, mailings, handwriting and codes.

OK, so since his military record proves he was in Japan and not in California, you admit your whole "theory" is just a money-making scam?

Well I don’t think her motive was money. She is not going to sell a lot of books at $40. Especially when the facts of Rader being overseas will convince most Zodiac researchers and the general true crime reading public that her thesis is impossible.

She seems like a nice person who got intrigued by the case. That being said, I was disappointed that she did no real research on the feasibility of what she proposed. Even a cursory examination of the facts would have shown her it was impossible for Rader to be in SF for the number of days needed.

That being said, she can still present her other evidence. And as a member she can explore our many other theories, topics and suspects.

AK Wilks, I disagree and I think her motive was entirely monetary. She’s not gonna get rich but she’ll make a little money and that’s all she wants. If she is indeed a retired detective (?), she’s way too smart to overlook the discrepancy in physical locations of the suspect and the murder scenes. Plus all the other discrepancies. This book is not meant for the true crime fan. This is more along the lines of escapist fiction or some story you might find in a tabloid. Actually a lot of people like to read something that is entertaining whether it is true or not.

She states her objective is not to make money. One way she could restore a modicum of credibility would be to pledge to donate all profits to a worthy charity.

Perhaps she was motivated partly by money and/or fame. I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt. She seems like a very nice person. But had she done some more research or joined ZKS before publishing her book, she would have realized it is impossible for Rader to have been Zodiac.

There is no doubt the Zodiac case has attracted many would be best selling writers/amateur (or real) detectives. In most cases it is likely the lure of money and/or fame. But I can also see how good, well intentioned people can get fascinated by the case, and without outside review and criticism, swept into a delusion they have definitively solved it.

Yes if she stated she would give any profits to a crime victims fund, or other worthy charity, that would be a sign of good faith. Because her premise will strike most people as impossible, and because it has been proven here as impossible, at $40 a copy she will not sell many or even any books.

Who was it that said: "Nobody ever lost any money underestimating the intelligence of the American people."?

Some people will buy the book simply because they are collectors and buy all books related to Zodiac knowing full well that every one of the solutions can not be true. It doesn’t make the people who buy the book unintelligent.

Perhaps Kim has made an observation in her book no one has noticed before now and that observation is something that can be extrapolated to a different suspect with positive results.

Try not to focus on one aspect of writing and selling a book, such as doing it to make money, look at the bigger picture.

We get your point EndOfTheWorld.

Many think TedK is now out of the Zodiac loop too, but that doesn’t stop people from finding ways to include him.

Kim has been quite gracious in talking about this–let’s give her the opportunity to do so.