Four for me. (No Bates, no Stein).

Out of all of them, I’d think Stine is a slam dunk. Who mailed in pieces of Stine’s shirt with Z letters if not Z?

Four for me. (No Bates, no Stein).

Out of all of them, I’d think Stine is a slam dunk. Who mailed in pieces of Stine’s shirt with Z letters if not Z?

X or Y presumably.

I’m gonna say 6+

I find it hard to believe that as much of a media whore as Z obviously was that he would not be trumpeting his crimes far and wide. I just don’t see him doing that, at all. It runs counter to his whole megalomania. Which I think neatly ties in with his whole humping of Melvin Belli. Two media whores giving each other the attention that they craved. Z was a total showboat once he got underway. Meaning, after that first letter, it just seemed like he fell into this groove that he found tasty and kept piling it on. I don’t see a guy like that having crimes after the "Canonical Five" that he didn’t divulge under some circumstance. I think he either died or got really scared because the cops were after him, or was sent to jail for a very long time, at least until the Exorcist letter.

It suited him to claim victims that were not his own, to keep the net of fear spread. I think that was obviously one of his main motivations especially later on. Imagine how YOU would feel if you could have a whole city in fear? I mean, personally, I can’t actually relate to that, maybe it would be like the way I feel after my house is really really clean, or a good cup of joe, or what have you?
But this whole net of fear he cast was SOOOOOO in keeping with this whole Z persona. I mean, the guy took the trouble to sew up a hood and emblazon his chest with his symbol and scrawl on cars and make ciphers. The dude was living in a fantasy world of his own creation, the ultimate anti-hero, Z. Do you think he would willingly give that up? Stop the attention? He stopped for a very big reason, a guy like him doesn’t just decide to go hang out at a golf course and put his blue pens and Monarch paper and weapons away. Its just not in keeping with human nature. Like a movie star who can’t get the big roles anymore- most people don’t walk away willingly from something like that. He either got very ill, was incarcerated, etc.

Interestingly I think that the OTHER end of his crimes, BEFORE Z, if there are other killings other than the 5, that’s where you are most likely to find them IMO. It seems like one could make the reasonable assumption that the Z killings were of a piece, so to speak, a chapter. I think its likely that there are other crimes that served as a lead-in for the later ones. His juvenalia, in other words. I think that the series of shootings along the coast around the time of the Gaviota attacks, the various "sniper" shootings of people on the beach (as far south as San Diego) seem to fit an overall idea of what his juvenalia would reasonably consist of. But as far as the persona named Z, I firmly believe that in that period of time it was only the five he committed, certainly not 37 on any case. Of course he is going to brag, act like "you will never know when I may pounce!" If people hadn’t died Z would be one of the greatest nerds on earth. If they had only had RPG back then he might have never committed any crimes at all.

Four for me. (No Bates, no Stein).

No STINE? Ok Talon, you are killing me. I gotta search this up on the forum now, its so labyrinthine that sometimes I just focus on certain sections. Care to steer me in the right direction? I gotta hear this.

As I said before I estimate 120 to 150-70 and most back in the 60’s and early 70’s before the plastic photo ID licenses …per what I found .

While I don’t believe it was 37+, and I tend to think around 7, what always has me questioning is, what were to happen if the murders he took credit for went solved, and we’re not credited to him. That certainly wouldn’t have looked good for him.

Yeah, I do not understand not considering Paul Stine to be one of Zodiac’s victims. The guy mailed in a piece of his bloody shirt! OK, so assuming that someone other than the killer mailed in the shirt, occam’s razor would tell us that the mailer at least had some involvement with the man who shot Paul to death.

That said, I tend to believe what has been consistently established and like to toy with other possibilities that are less empirically accounted for.
The canonical five are the ones I believe he did in fact do, but I am very concerned regarding similarities between Zodiac murders and the murders of Robert Domingos & Linda Edwards. I also feel that he had to at least be aware of the Bates murder, and often feel the pull of leaning towards thinking that maybe he wrote the letters that appeared after the confession, or maybe even wrote the confession himself, but perhaps did not commit the murder. It’s quite easy to follow these things today, but in the early 70’s, even television and newspapers would not have given as much coverage. One would have to search far and wide through many, many newspapers across the state looking to take credit for crimes. It’s obvious that Zodiac did read the papers and did claim responsibility for crimes not attributed to him. Still, I’m not sure how I feel about the total possible number. 37+ seems a little much, unless we are indeed dealing with some mastermind, taunting, sick homicidal bastard. Again, that seems a bit much. I’d say at most he killed, at least in the California area, about 9 or 10 people. There’s no telling how many people he may have killed while in the military, if that was indeed the case.

I say five, not because I’m a boring individual, but because the publicly available evidence says five.

LHR: random, motiveless killing. The Zodiac took credit and provided evidence.

BRS: random, motiveless killing. The Zodiac took credit and provided evidence. Made a phone call, displaying his activities.

LB: random, motiveless killing. The Zodiac left his imprimatur and made a phone call, ensuring he and he alone was the killer. Did not take immediate credit, which, almost paradoxically, lends credence to the claim he’s the killer.

Stine: random, motiveless killing, sent in incontrovertible proof he’s the killer. Took credit in letters.

Various forensic and circumstantial evidence tightly ties all these crimes together.

Riverside? Unlikely. Looks like a personal crime. Someone who was infatuated with Cheri. She was relatively comfortable with her killer. Inexperienced perp. Didn’t directly plan on murder, but had sub rosa intention to hurt the victim. Short utility knife lends credence to inexperience and lack of proper planning. Rage killing. Zodiac never took direct credit nor did he provide proof. Letters sent afterward are not proven to be written by killer, and none contain knowledge that proves involvement.

Domingos/Edwards: comparable to LB, perhaps, but he never took credit. Would have been easy for him to do so at the outset. But he didn’t. Why? Why claim LHR, but not GB? If you were the killer, crowing about your crimes, would you omit two perfect murders in 1963? Pretty much like he had no idea GB ever occurred.

Five. After Stine, he didn’t kill again, I suspect. No evidence to think he did. Before LHR is nothing but conjecture without substantially implicit, or indirect, evidence.

Without looking back at my original post, whatever count I thought, is now and forever changed. I believe in the 37.

Soze

Six, including Cheri Bates. I think Z’s narrow escape after Stine’s murder permanently scared him.

I believe only 5, but in a poll I set up, so far of 180 people that replied most people think 37+.
http://poll.pollcode.com/65769724_result?v

Most people probably think Elvis lives at the North Pole with Satan Claus and Bigfoot, too. Most people just ain’t too bright….

How many of the possible victims do YOU believe Zodiac did?

Is bajillion an actual number?

Five. Based on evidence.

5. This guy was not your garden variety serial killer. He was not into slowly, sadistically killing the victims and hiding the bodies to visit the corpse later. Instead he was more into executing them, then proving to the press he did, then playing games with the press for years. I think the Z morphed into the Unabomber and killed some more with bombs. More games with the press.

+100…based on bodies lying around in the US

QT