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Richard Grinell
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Bryan Hartnell stated that the assailant wore a black hooded mask made of a cloth material, covering his entire head and shoulders, reaching down to the waist. On the front of the four cornered mask at the chest area was a white circle (3 x 3 inches in diameter) and a symmetrical cross. He would further elaborate on the design of the crosshairs, as well as later in the 2007 Zodiac documentary, stating "It looked like it was made with a machine or with some degree of care- it wasn’t just scrawled on with white paint. It was proportional".

Why would a copycat killer meticulously sew on perfectly symmetrical crosshairs onto a carefully crafted costume, when he had no intention of leaving anybody alive to report it? If the crime had been committed by a copycat, then imitating the Zodiac Killer’s writing on the car door and subsequent phone call should have sufficed. He could simply have disguised his features with a mask, balaclava or plain hood.

The Zodiac Killer had murdered three and seriously injured a fourth person at this juncture, and had bathed in the spotlight of numerous newspaper articles in his name. This must have fed his egotistical nature, and in his own mind, elevated him to another level of self-aggrandizement. The idea that he would then carefully craft a costume befitting of such an infamous and feared villain, doesn’t seem that far-fetched. Would a copycat spend this much time creating an elaborate costume bedecked with crosshairs, when nobody was going to be left alive to report their observations to police? It would be a pointless waste of time. A copycat would have just reproduced the handwriting on the car door and made the payphone call. The Zodiac Killer, on the other hand, had every reason to adorn himself with a costume befitting of the man he thought he was.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : August 6, 2020 11:29 pm
BDHolland
(@peaceandlove)
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He also planned a daytime attack because he attached sunglasses to the hood.

Here are some thoughts I have had on it.

– He was seen the last time so this time he would mask up however it doesn’t explain why so elaborate a chest design.
– He planned to get blood on the chest design to send in with a letter to prove it was him. A precursor to the Stine piece.

Lake Herman Road was point blank for Faraday. Also did you know he leaned in the window of Ferrin’s car to shoot Mageau a second time ejecting shells into the car? Both of those must have gotten him bloody so I think the bib and hood was also serving as an apron.

It is not a copycat. A copycat copies. There is no copying in LB. It is a massive shift of M.O. So much so the Zodiac knew he needed to leave a message it was him AND make a phone call after.

So the question I have is where is the bloody chest piece and why is there is no letter talking much about the LB attack?

www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.

 
Posted : August 6, 2020 11:43 pm
(@claypooles)
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Sandy has the hood and chest piece.

 
Posted : August 7, 2020 8:09 pm
(@mccririck)
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Sandy has the hood and chest piece.

Probably

 
Posted : August 9, 2020 7:54 pm
(@ithinkiknow)
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There was a British serial killer (Peter Sutcliff, I think) nicknamed the Yorkshire Ripper. He had a makeshift piece of clothing that he used as a masturbation device. It was a sweater into which he sewed knee-pads into the sleeves. He wore the sweater as a pair of underwear. When he would kill his victims he would kneel next to them and masturbate easily by pulling his outer pants down and have easy access (and kneeling comfort) for his sick fantasies. He was captured wearing it, so it definitely existed. He never spoke of it in any interviews.

The costume could be similar for Zodiac in some ways. It was practical as a piece of clothing that would catch the castoff blood. However, it could’ve been a private fantasy of the individual known as Zodiac. He may not have EVER suspected that anyone would see it and survive. It was his own little secret that he could pull out when he’s alone and look at it and fantasize about who he is when he puts it on–sorta like a Batman or Spiderman costume in reverse

Alternatively, he may have created the costume and selected the location/timing in hopes that he would be seen by someone. Maybe not in flagrante delicto violencio, but walking to or from the attack. Then, when the witness is found and interviewed he or she will say, "I saw a person wearing this costume walking away from the direction where that dead couple was found." In this manner, his legend grows spectacularly.

LB is definitely the second-oddest of his attacks (behind Stine). I don’t know what to make of so many of the details. I do not, however, think it was a copycat. The question is open in my mind whether this was someone who worked in conjunction with another person to commit the crimes together. That is such a wild thought, though, that it is difficult to imagine.

 
Posted : August 9, 2020 8:28 pm
jacob
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Joseph DeAngelo/EARONS also wore something of a costume during his crimes, his utility belt and assortment of ski masks. DeAngelo probably learned from his military and LE experience that the authority of a uniform provides confidence to carry out high-octane acts, gearing the mind into a "zone" usually lacking in everyday life. That said, I find Zodiac’s inclusion of a symbol on his costume to be extremely immature and probably derived from fantasies influenced by comic books.

 
Posted : August 9, 2020 10:21 pm
(@ithinkiknow)
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Jacob, most defintely. He’s gotta be a comic book fan. I was so hasty in posting that I forgot to add that his interest in comic books and his costume are probably a bit embrassing to him, if my first theory is accurate. It’s like a CosPlay costume before Cosplay was a thing.

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 1:05 am
jacob
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Jacob, most defintely. He’s gotta be a comic book fan. I was so hasty in posting that I forgot to add that his interest in comic books and his costume are probably a bit embrassing to him, if my first theory is accurate. It’s like a CosPlay costume before Cosplay was a thing.

He was a comic book fan if the Halloween Card and Tahoe’s Tim Holt finding are to be believed.

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 1:44 am
Marshall
(@marshall)
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Jacob, most defintely. He’s gotta be a comic book fan. I was so hasty in posting that I forgot to add that his interest in comic books and his costume are probably a bit embrassing to him, if my first theory is accurate. It’s like a CosPlay costume before Cosplay was a thing.

He was a comic book fan if the Halloween Card and Tahoe’s Tim Holt finding are to be believed.

This I agree with, but I don’t believe he was the same guy who shot victims at LHR, BRS, and PH. Shooter Z (real, or original, Z) was a perfunctory hit man who shot his victims from close range.

Just as others wrote letters claiming to be Z, there was a guy, younger, more immature, into comic books, who became enthralled with the Zodiac killings and media coverage. He invented his own concept of this super villain, carefully stitched up his executioner costume, and committed the LB attack.

Virtually nothing is similar between the 3 shootings and LB. Even the writing on the car door. Shooter Z never signed a crime scene even though there was a car at each one.

A lot of people jump to the notion that if LB was someone other than Shooter Z, he must be a "copycat." This, IMO is an incorrect assumption. The guy at LB wasn’t copying Z; he was appropriating the Z persona. Appropriating: take something for one’s own use, typically without the owner’s permission.

Shortly after LB is the Stine murder. As with LHR and BRS, it is close-range shootings with none – absolutely none – of the characteristics of LB. The Halloween card was likely sent by the LB killer, with his own, comic book inspired, fantasy/interpretation about what the Zodiac killer ought to be.

Everyone agrees there were many people writing letters pretending to be Zodiac. Yet there seems to be a lot of push-back at the notion there could’ve been more than one person killing under that name. The Tim Holt comic book Tahoe found was from the 1950s. Z’s descriptions from BRS and PH have him as old as 35-40. So would a guy 20-25 years old in the mid-50s be reading Tim Holt comic books, and being so heavily influenced by them? The killer at LB was younger.

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 2:49 am
jacob
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Shortly after LB is the Stine murder. As with LHR and BRS, it is close-range shootings with none – absolutely none – of the characteristics of LB. The Halloween card was likely sent by the LB killer, with his own, comic book inspired, fantasy/interpretation about what the Zodiac killer ought to be.

The separate killers you posit are both fantasists who used shocking murders combined with the "Zodiac" persona as a means for public notoriety. It’s almost as if they’re the same killer. The less convoluted explanation is that one killer returned to shooting, with Stine, because going outside of his comfort zone with a stabbing resulted in another victim (Hartnell) surviving. With Stine he wanted to prove he was capable of killing a lone male on the streets of San Francisco, not just targeting couples in remote locations.

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 3:21 am
Marshall
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Shortly after LB is the Stine murder. As with LHR and BRS, it is close-range shootings with none – absolutely none – of the characteristics of LB. The Halloween card was likely sent by the LB killer, with his own, comic book inspired, fantasy/interpretation about what the Zodiac killer ought to be.

The separate killers you posit are both fantasists who used shocking murders combined with the "Zodiac" persona as a means for public notoriety. It’s almost as if they’re the same killer. The less convoluted explanation is that one killer returned to shooting, with Stine, because going outside of his comfort zone with a stabbing resulted in another victim (Hartnell) surviving.

Why would Hartnell’s survival bother him more than Mageau’s? At LB he was wearing a disguise, at BRS he wasn’t. LB was a success – nothing to discourage Z from continuing at least some of his newly adopted characteristics.

The only reason LB and the Zodiac shootings are connected is because the guy at LB said he was Zodiac. That’s scant reason to believe he actually was, when every other indication is that he wasn’t.

When you say: The separate killers you posit are both fantasists who used shocking murders combined with the "Zodiac" persona as a means for public notoriety. It’s almost as if they’re the same killer. does that mean the same guy killed JFK, RFK, and MLK?

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 3:38 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
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If the Zodiac Killer hadn’t mailed in any communications after the Stine murder, and I stated today that the taxicab murder of Paul Stine was a Zodiac crime, I doubt anybody would believe me Marshall. You would say it wasn’t a Zodiac crime because it didn’t have the characteristics of a "couple murder" and wasn’t committed in a dark and desolate place. The Zodiac wasn’t bound to the style of his first two attacks ad infinitum, because he had the free will to change, just as he had the choice to select a single male victim, use a knife, wear a costume or anything else he desired. Serial killers aren’t bound by a set of rules.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 3:44 am
Marshall
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If the Zodiac Killer hadn’t mailed in any communications after the Stine murder, and I stated today that the taxicab murder of Paul Stine was a Zodiac crime, I doubt anybody would believe me Marshall. You would say it wasn’t a Zodiac crime because it didn’t have the characteristics of a "couple murder" and wasn’t committed in a dark and desolate place. The Zodiac wasn’t bound to the style of his first two attacks ad infinitum, because he had the free will to change, just as he had the choice to select a single male victim, use a knife, wear a costume or anything else he desired. Serial killers aren’t bound by a set of rules.

And that is true. But that does not mean that every murder around that time was done by the same person. Just like it doesn’t mean that every letter or card mailed to a newspaper or LE signed Zodiac was sent by the same person.

Two points: First, your example of the Stine killing. You are 100% correct. We would have no reason to connect that murder to Zodiac. We would also have no reason to connect BRS to LHR, but for the communications (different guns used.) Here’s the reason: He didn’t autograph the crime scene.

But the killer at LB did. This isn’t a small difference in MO – it is a huge difference, because Shooter Z made darn sure he escaped cleanly before admitting to being a serial killer, while the guy at LB tied himself to multiple other murders while still at the scene.

Second, the spreadsheet Chaucer created, summarizing descriptions of Z, says the Robbins kids, who watched Z for several minutes, and followed him down the sidewalk for awhile, said he was in his early 40s. Foulke, a trained police officer who saw, and perhaps spoke with, Zodiac, said he was 35-45 years old.

I think we agree Tahoe’s Tim Holt comic book find directly ties to LB and the Halloween card. It was published in 1952. So, if Z was 35 (the low end of the PH witnesses) then he was 18 years old when the comic book came out. If he was 45 years old (the high-end estimate) then he was 28 years old in 1952.

So….. is it likely a guy between the ages of 18 and 28 is not only reading comic books, but being so heavily influenced by them as to stitch together the LB costume, kill, and then put together the elaborate Halloween card and mail it? I’m thinking, for most kids, comic book reading stops well before that age.

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 4:26 am
CuriousCat
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The Zodiac wasn’t bound to the style of his first two attacks ad infinitum, because he had the free will to change, just as he had the choice to select a single male victim, use a knife, wear a costume or anything else he desired. Serial killers aren’t bound by a set of rules.

Agreed, people often forget we are dealing with a raving lunatic with Zodiac. They tend to be very unpredictable.

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 4:29 am
Richard Grinell
(@richard-grinell)
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Topic starter
 

I doubt either of us Marshall would have been reading comic books between 18 and 28, but even today we have fully grown men running around in Star Trek costumes shouting “live long and prosper” and "Space: the final frontier". We have grown men inspired by Star Wars dressing as Luke Skywalker, Chewbacca and Darth Vader waving light sabres in your face. These individuals live through fantasy, therefore I don’t find it exceptional that a few mature individuals could still be influenced by comics well into adulthood. We know of avid comic collectors. Factor in what we know, that Zodiac wasn’t typical of most grown men, then it isn’t too hard to believe. I don’t think we can look at Zodiac through a rational mind, because his actions are alien to most reasonable thinking human beings. Everybody is different and everybody thinks differently, therefore attempting to reconcile the actions of one single person by attesting he wouldn’t be reading comics between 18 and 28, would be a bold claim. I put away my train set at 14, but that isn’t the case for everybody.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/

“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.

 
Posted : August 10, 2020 12:06 pm
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