I was looking at some of the police sketches of the LH attack, and they show the Rambler at different positions as described by witnesses.
https://zodiackillerfacts.com/gallery/t … p?album=72
The time ascribed makes more sense than what I’ve usually read:
1) The Rambler facing south at around 11h05 to 11h10. Witnesses report seeing people in the car.
2) The Rambler is seen at around 11h00 to 11h10 now on the other side and facing east. Two persons seen in the car.
3) The Rambler is seen next to another car at around 11h15. No one was seen in either cars, which makes me think anyone in the cars ducked as the car drove by. They didn’t when they were alone in the above two cases.
4) At 11h20 the bodies are spotted by a witness driving by, with the car still facing east.
Earlier in the evening, William Cross and his girlfriend had parked in that location, a light-colored Chevy (according to him, the police officer instead reported William as saying possibly a blue Valiant, which William said the officer had interjected and was not what he saw but rather a light-colored Chevy) drove by them, hit the brakes, pulled back, and William decided to speed out of there. They were pursued for a bit, tailgated, and also the car caught up to his side, with what he claimed was two white males inside. The pursuers then gave up. Were the pursuers trying to see who was in the car, not sure of their identity? If the pursuers were looking for David and Betty, they wouldn’t necessarily know what car David drove as he borrowed his parents’ car, it wasn’t his car.
Originally it was thought as being a drug deal gone wrong, or something drugs related. There were reasons to believe so at the time (others could probably provide more info). David had supposedly confronted a pusher, etc. There’s a lot of stories about drug operations in the area at the time.
If I look at how the scene above unfolded, I can imagine David and Betty driving into place, the other car arrives (probably the same who chased another car earlier, the pursuers thinking it was Betty and David inside). As a car approaches, everyone ducks in their car; they D&B were alone they didn’t need to, but if this is a potential drug-related encounter the arrival of a car could make everyone more careful now that they are all on site. Then B&D are murdered by the attacker(s) from the other car.
The only reason this went on to become "The Zodiac" was due to the BRS attack and its subsequent call and letters.
I find the July 31 letters extremely suspect since the information listed to "prove" that the writer is the attacker is like someone repeating what he heard investigators or police officers say. He does not say anything about how the scene unfolded, he mentions the ammo type in the LH case as "Super X" which is a specific type made by Winchester, but he just says "ammo made by Western" in the BRS case, as if he’s lacking more specific info. Says 10 shots fired in the LH case, but doesn’t say how many in the LH case again as if he’s lacking the info. In fact, even after the July 4th letter they asked for more proof, and he provided nothing except saying again that he shot Mageau in the knee and how Mageau ended up on the backseat. I’m not even sure that the orientation of Betty’s body is correct in the police sketches above, as one witness described her face facing towards the road but if you go by the photo of her body before paramedics handled it she would have her face turned away from the road. If it is wrong in the sketches, it is essentially proof that the writer is copying the error from the sketch.
You might say he does provide proofs for the Stine murder: but let’s back up. Why did he never elaborate on his most famous, character-defining attack, the one at LB? So he goes out of his way to get a bloody piece of shirt for the murder of a cab driver, but provides nothing and writes NOTHING at all about LB other than claim he did it, just that short line, only to go on and on about the Stine murder and how that unfolded, his most botched attacked yet? It ONLY the Stine case for which he provides physical evidence, it is the least "serial-killer-like" kill, and he elaborates pretty significantly about the nights’ events.
What that could indicate is that in fact the Zodiac writer is someone who was close enough to the police in the LH and BRS case, as in enough to hear about some of the case details or access some of the files at best. By the time the LB attack takes place, he no longer has that access, and he is screwed unable to make a big splash in the media by claiming LB because he has nothing to back it up and is worried investigators will see through it due to his inability to prove his involvement.
Cue the REAL and probably ONLY murder of the Zodiac writer: the murder of a cab driver, the least calculated, most witnessed, least serial-killer-like, most fingerprinted case ever for a claimed Zodiac attack, which he would have gotten busted for if it hadn’t been for a dumb mistake by the cops. And for what? Because after LB, he is desperate for a way to prove his character again for the letters he wants to keep writing. What may have started as an attempt to derail an investigation for LH or LH and BRS, or merely an attempt to create a character thanks to privileged access to those cases or those close to it, led him to kill a cab driver to snatch a bloody piece of shirt.
Never would the Zodiac go on to provide ANY information that proved his involvement in ANY case whatsoever, not even close. Never would he report stuff only known by the police, let alone provide ANY physical evidence again. In fact he would eventually go on to claim that from now on his attacks will look like any possible random attack, because by then he knew he was screwed, couldn’t keep up with his game, so he just puts himself in a position to be able to claim that any attack might be his and hopes that will just stick, and I have to say it seems it kind of worked enough. Eventually he tires out about it and just complains about movies, if not just move on.
Just a thought 
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4926 <— Is the Zodiac persona misdirection to create an alibi?
You might like that.
www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4926 <— Is the Zodiac persona misdirection to create an alibi?
You might like that.
Yes it could be.
If it’s drugs related, maybe someone in LE was connected to the drug dealers. Somehow he was no longer working for the PD by the time LB took place. The pencil flashlight strapped to the gun could be to mislead; it really was a police stick flashlight so he went on to invent that story about a pencil flashlight.
Honestly after hearing the Z340 was nothing more than a scytale cipher that was 1 down 2 across with some juggling it would not surprise me in the least that the Zodiac could have been narrowed down with two elements:
1) LE
2) Mare Island Military training.
If the Z340 was like 7 down, 6 across, okay, that would be a more complex computation to reach, but 1 down, 2 across? Did they stop at 1 down, 1 across or something?
This all sounds very much like the Zodiac knew very well how these organisations operated and figured they wouldn’t be able to catch him because they simply didn’t put stuff together like this in the late 60s.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if more work has gone into trying to control public image relations than actually uncovering the Zodiac by dealing with the facts that point to Zodiac having the same knowledge they did because he is one of them.
You could probably write all this Zodiac stuff off as a cop gone rogue. That has the best explanatory power over everything. They just couldn’t figure out which one of them he was but knew he was one of them. What are they supposed to say on news reels? We suspect the Zodiac is a cop. They obviously can’t say that out of fear the social structure would just implode but it would have probably solved the case earlier instead of skipping over Zodiac because he is a cop.
Obviously joining the force back then wasn’t something that had many detailed records, especially trainees/reserve officers that left early after a year or so. They were probably counting on the various Sheriff departments to remember that ‘so and so’ joined but had to be re-assigned/dropped/fired because they were too crazy even for them.
www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4926 <— Is the Zodiac persona misdirection to create an alibi?
You might like that.
Yes it could be.
If it’s drugs related, maybe someone in LE was connected to the drug dealers. Somehow he was no longer working for the PD by the time LB took place. The pencil flashlight strapped to the gun could be to mislead; it really was a police stick flashlight so he went on to invent that story about a pencil flashlight.
Why the conspiracy? We’re dealing with a psychopathic serial killer here pure and simple. Acting alone.
They were probably counting on the various Sheriff departments to remember that ‘so and so’ joined but had to be re-assigned/dropped/fired because they were too crazy even for them.
I wonder if there are law enforcement firing or suspension records that could be reviewed in consideration of this (though of course the limited time and resources devoted to cold cases is an impediment). Joseph DeAngelo could have been captured years sooner if they had been aware of his firing for petty shoplifting.
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4926 <— Is the Zodiac persona misdirection to create an alibi?
You might like that.
Yes it could be.
If it’s drugs related, maybe someone in LE was connected to the drug dealers. Somehow he was no longer working for the PD by the time LB took place. The pencil flashlight strapped to the gun could be to mislead; it really was a police stick flashlight so he went on to invent that story about a pencil flashlight.
Why the conspiracy? We’re dealing with a psychopathic serial killer here pure and simple. Acting alone.
I don’t think they are saying it’s a conspiracy. It obviously isn’t if LE are releasing evidence to the public.
www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.
They were probably counting on the various Sheriff departments to remember that ‘so and so’ joined but had to be re-assigned/dropped/fired because they were too crazy even for them.
I wonder if there are law enforcement firing or suspension records that could be reviewed in consideration of this (though of course the limited time and resources devoted to cold cases is an impediment). Joseph DeAngelo could have been captured years sooner if they had been aware of his firing for petty shoplifting.
Yes DeAngelo could have been identified much earlier on ESPECIALLY if we hadn’t bought into the idea that they had already checked out LE just like we bought into the idea known cipher methods had already been applied to the Z340.
If DeAngelo wasn’t checked out or if he was for EARONS, we shall never know.
DeAngelo’s case files while working as LE were ‘thrown out’. In fact most of the EAR case was thrown out. What remained was one small shelf long.
My guess is that Zodiac was probably skipped over because he was LE and given no more than just a passing glance. Might have even been stopped at various times and used the LE excuse.
I suspect there is good reason to believe DeAngelo simply blended in with LE during the failed Danville attack. They had a hot crime scene. First time in 50 attacks that someone called the police during an attack. The dogs were even alerted to the bushes immediately as if he was there.
This has a bit of the story. https://earons.wordpress.com/2016/06/18 … ly-5-1979/ but you will have to read more detailed accounts to get the full story.
He was probably wearing a California Highway Patrol windbreaker and just joined in the search for himself.
DeAngelo being LE is what caused me to rethink everything about the Zodiac case. Many parallels. Especially calling LE "pigs".
I have a thread on red herrings for this very issue -> http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtop … =25&t=4932
www.zodiachalloweencard.com has a 400 paged book for free containing the super solution with an overarching explanation of the cards and more.
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4926 <— Is the Zodiac persona misdirection to create an alibi?
I don’t think they are saying it’s a conspiracy. It obviously isn’t if LE are releasing evidence to the public.
look at the title of the thread "inventing the Zodiac". Any content that deviates from the premise that a lone serial killer who named himself as Zodiac, and was operating in the Bay Area during the late 60’s is entering into the realms of conspiracy. Of course, that’s only my opinion.
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4926 <— Is the Zodiac persona misdirection to create an alibi?
You might like that.
Yes it could be.
If it’s drugs related, maybe someone in LE was connected to the drug dealers. Somehow he was no longer working for the PD by the time LB took place. The pencil flashlight strapped to the gun could be to mislead; it really was a police stick flashlight so he went on to invent that story about a pencil flashlight.
Why the conspiracy? We’re dealing with a psychopathic serial killer here pure and simple. Acting alone.
Please explain why the only proof he ever offered was the bloody shirt pieces from the cab driver murder, and then never provided any again? He never even revealed any information about any case like he did with LH and BRS.
No proof or anything close to it at all.
Please explain why the only proof he ever offered was the bloody shirt pieces from the cab driver murder, and then never provided any again? He never even revealed any information about any case like he did with LH and BRS.
No proof or anything close to it at all.
How about the Zodiac emblem drawn on the side of Bryan Hartnell’s car at Lake Berryessa?
How about the Zodiac emblem drawn on the side of Bryan Hartnell’s car at Lake Berryessa?
How is that a proof? The symbol was already very public, the Zodiac had sent ciphers to the press and all. It was a copycat murder. Zodiac barely even mentions the LB attack even though it was the most publicized. Why? Because he is unable to take credit for it. Had to kill a cab driver and take parts of bloody shirt.
So again why did Zodiac never manage to prove his involvement in any case other than Stine? And why did he never provide details only “me and the police would know” other than LH and BRS? Never ever for any case.
He provided proof at Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs in the July 31st letters. He provided proof at Presidio Heights with the shirt piece. So, effectively you are saying you are not satisfied with the writing on the car door and phone call at Lake Berryessa. He did take credit for Berryessa by adding "sept" on the Dripping Pen card. The Zodiac Killer, on the car door of Bryan Hartnell’s white Karmann Ghia, clearly attributes both of his first two attacks under the banner of Vallejo, despite the fact David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen were murdered in Benicia. In fact, the Zodiac Killer never referenced Benicia in any of his communications, while he mentioned Vallejo several times. If the Zodiac Killer played no part in the Lake Berryessa attack, then his October 13th letter should have read "This is the Zodiac speaking. I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St + Maple St last night, to prove this here is a blood stained piece of his shirt. I am the same man who did in the people in the Vallejo area". However, he chose to use the "north bay area" for the first time, which incorporates the Napa and Sanoma wine regions. What proof would you have accepted at Lake Berryessa?
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/
“I simply cannot accept that there are, on every story, two equal and logical sides to an argument.” Edward R. Murrow.
How about the Zodiac emblem drawn on the side of Bryan Hartnell’s car at Lake Berryessa?
How is that a proof? The symbol was already very public, the Zodiac had sent ciphers to the press and all. It was a copycat murder. Zodiac barely even mentions the LB attack even though it was the most publicized. Why? Because he is unable to take credit for it. Had to kill a cab driver and take parts of bloody shirt.
So again why did Zodiac never manage to prove his involvement in any case other than Stine? And why did he never provide details only “me and the police would know” other than LH and BRS? Never ever for any case.
A copycat murder? So two homicidal psychopaths operating in the same area at the same time, one copying the other? Come on. Also, If the ulterior motive for the murders was to cover up drug dealing, I presume that’s what you are implying, why would the killer at Lake Berryessa go to the extraordinary lengths of stalking and killing two young people in a remote location in broad daylight? The risks were enormous. One sighting of the killers car, obviously parked up on the road above Lake Berryessa, and it was game over. It’s typical of the mindset of this type of miscreant to take risks. He’s a lucky man he wasn’t identified that day at Lake Berryessa.
He provided proof at Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs in the July 31st letters. He provided proof at Presidio Heights with the shirt piece. So, effectively you are saying you are not satisfied with the writing on the car door and phone call at Lake Berryessa. He did take credit for Berryessa by adding "sept" on the Dripping Pen card. The Zodiac Killer, on the car door of Bryan Hartnell’s white Karmann Ghia, clearly attributes both of his first two attacks under the banner of Vallejo, despite the fact David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen were murdered in Benicia. In fact, the Zodiac Killer never referenced Benicia in any of his communications, while he mentioned Vallejo several times. If the Zodiac Killer played no part in the Lake Berryessa attack, then his October 13th letter should have read "This is the Zodiac speaking. I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St + Maple St last night, to prove this here is a blood stained piece of his shirt. I am the same man who did in the people in the Vallejo area". However, he chose to use the "north bay area" for the first time, which incorporates the Napa and Sanoma wine regions. What proof would you have accepted at Lake Berryessa?
The "proofs" for LH and BRS is only that he is close enough to the police or the investigators to know SOME information from the case. Like I said in my first post, what he reports from both cases is limited (why does he specify the exact ammo type for LH, but only "made by Western" for BRS?). For LB, he reports NO evidence in his letter, but provides physical evidence for the Stine murder.
The LB attack has some writing on the door by someone claiming to be the Zodiac, who went as far as wearing a whole costume during the attack, so it’s unsurprising that the attacker would write stuff on the door when his victims were expected to die anyway, and then makes a call to the police. Without the writing on the door or the call to the police, it would have required explanations in a letter. Yet when a letter does arrive, there only a passing mention of LB is made, while he goes into many details about the Stine case.
Let’s say he also did LB. Why did he NEVER provide anything resembling proofs of his involvement in other cases? Never provides another piece of physical evidence like the Stine murder, never manages to provide any information only he and the police would know like the LH and BRS case? Because he never committed any murder past the cab driver murder, or lost his privileged access to the cases.
