Its a good observation and my guess would be that he was responding to the numerous hoax letters and hoax phone calls.

The only argument I have heard against the ‘one writing and another killing’ argument is Bryans door and the writing found on it coming from the same hand as that of which authored the Zodiac letters. While I used to use this argument myself in defence of the ‘one killer, one writer = same guy’ theory, the fact is that we have no proof what-so-ever that the man who attacked Bryan and Cecelia also wrote the message on the car door. Did Zodiac park up behind Bryans Karmann Ghia? If he did, how do we know a second person, that being the letter writer, wasn’t there also? Initial reaction may be to dismiss that as too far fetched or unlikely, but if so, why? Why is it far more likely that Zodiac acted alone at Lake B? Why would it not make sense for him to have a second person up on the hill ridge who wrote that message and who also could keep watch for any unwanted vehicles approaching?

Just what did he mean when he said he would never be caught as he was too smart for them? What had he done to outsmart them? How could he have fooled them? What can he possibly use to justify this comment?

He was a narcisstic egomaniac sociopath. Jack the Ripper also claimed he was too clever for police to catch him.

There have been group theories in this case but little evidence to support them.

Aside from a Manson type group I would guesstimate 90% of serial killers work alone.

Its a good observation and my guess would be that he was responding to the numerous hoax letters and hoax phone calls.

Possibly. But he kinda removed doubt after he sent the first reply asking for more evidence of: "I shall be very happy to supply even more material…" Now theres no doubt that only the killer could know the info this author is supplying. And to remove any last lingering doubt, here is a piece of the victims shirt along with my letter that opens "This is the Zodiac Speaking…"

But yet it is after he sends the shirt piece along with the letter that can leave nobody in any doubt that this letter writer and the killer are the same man that he still seems to have a desire or need to convince readers because even after he’s sent the piece of shirt with the letter he says "To prove I am the Zodiac…" as if someone has stated "I don’t care about that piece of shirt, i don’t believe you are Zodiac"

He was a narcisstic egomaniac sociopath. Jack the Ripper also claimed he was too clever for police to catch him.

There have been group theories in this case but little evidence to support them.

Aside from a Manson type group I would guesstimate 90% of serial killers work alone.

Well, off the top of my head i can think of Leonard lake & Charles NG. Kenneth Bianhi & Angelo Buoeno. The railway rapists/killer (UK). And that’s just off the top of my head in 10 seconds or so after reading your comment. But yes, most do work alone.

"He was a narcisstic egomaniac sociopath." The killer certainly was sociopathic. The letter writer, writing as ‘Zodiac’ also appeared to have sociopathic traits and was overly narcissistic and egocentric. But even if we say the letter writer and killer were the same man, what evidence or proof do we have the Man writing the Letters and his alter ego ‘Zodiac’ were in any way similar? The creator of the Zodiac persona who’s personality we only get to see on paper, is no different, it could be argued, to that of Tom Cruise in Top Gun. Tom Cruise cant really fly a fighter jet. Tom Cruise isn’t really called ‘Maverick’ and associate with fellow fighter pilots, he only allows the person seeing his performance to believe he is what he appears to be on the screen. In reality, he is an actor and just playing the part of a pilot.

All good points for discussion.

Of solved serial killer cases just 13 percent had a partner 87 percent worked alone

I suppose the best example to get at what I am trying to say is shown in an interview with Matthew Perry…

Interviewer: How similar is Matthew Perry and Chandler Bing? Do the two get confused by fans a lot?

Perry: Well I get asked that quite a lot and my answer is always the same…I look a lot like Chandler Bing.

Point i am trying to show is, Chandler was a character, he doesn’t exist in reality without Matthew bringing him to life and when he does, Chandler has his own personality, his own likes and dislikes, prefers to be the clown of the party etc, but that person isn’t really Matthew Perry, he’s a character Matthew is simply playing.

Judd Nelson also said of movie fans mistaking him for his character John Bender in Breakfast Club that "Its strange, nobody ever confuses the baker with the bread."

All good points for discussion.

Of solved serial killer cases just 13 percent had a partner 87 percent worked alone

I agree that most do operate alone. But going on that basis I could argue that most serial’s also have a preferred kill method, ie ‘The Boston Strangler, The 44 Calibre Killer’ etc. If they don’t then they may have a particular mannerism that identifies them as being responsible such as victim dumping ground (Green River). Or many have preferred victim types such as Bundy always targeting young girls with dark hair parted in the centre. Their weapon tends to be the same if they prefer murder by gun, such as is seen in The Son of Sam case. Nothing about Zodiac conforms with the hypothetical serial killer rule book. The only thing he was consistent in being was being totally inconsistent. According to the Behavioural Science Unit at the FBI Academy, serial killers don’t just stop killing once they start killing, and Zodiac appears to be an attention driven killer who one day said he no longer had interest in attention or murder and vanished. Even BTK, though himself admitted to stopping killing, also admitted that at the time police goaded him into replying to them by claiming in a live news broadcast ‘BTK is dead’ that he never stopped trolling for potential victims, and admitted that at the time they apprehended him, he was planning a murder.

My feeling was that he was concerned about ownership. To me, he was, in a weird way cementing his own MO albeit part of seemed to be not to have one lol. I just feel that the it all came as a whole package for him, the killings and the writing, hence his desire, compulsion even, to make sure they linked.

Now having said that the response in his second letter (Aug 4 1969) he appears to be replying to a request so the most logical thing to do was check the newspapers from the time. I would urge everyone to make use of the fantastic resource compiled by Seagull and Tahoe with the assistance of Michael Cole and Jake Wark. The link to the thread is below and if you check out the two articles I have listed below you will see the challenge to Zodiac from Police Chief Stiltz to prove he is the killer and the letter writer. Both printed 1 day and 2 days before the Aug 4th reply.

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=1193

“Coded Clue In Murders,” San Francisco Chronicle, 2 August 1969, A4.

“Vallejo Mass Murder Threat Fails,” San Francisco Sunday Examiner and Chronicle, 3 August 1969, A9.

Actually here they are, saves looking for them. There may be more but you can read through them for yourself. I have no doubt that this resource will answer many questions we may have. These may not specifically answer some of your queries WC but as I say, you might find those answers in the articles but I thought these were a good example, at a pinch, of the kind of printed statements that Zodiac, I feel, would have considered a dialogue opportunity of sorts, asking him to prove himself. Something that could certainly explain the apparent need to provide proof the Zodiac did seem to have as outlined in this thread. I suspect this was a police tactic trying to keep him communicating and possible trick him in to revealing something he hadn’t intended to.

“Coded Clue In Murders,” San Francisco Chronicle, 2 August 1969, A4.

“Vallejo Mass Murder Threat Fails,” San Francisco Sunday Examiner and Chronicle, 3 August 1969, A9.

My feeling was that he was concerned about ownership. To me, he was, in a weird way cementing his own MO albeit part of seemed to be not to have one lol. I just feel that the it all came as a whole package for him, the killings and the writing, hence his desire, compulsion even, to make sure they linked.

Now having said that the response in his second letter (after the first 3) he appears to be replying to a request so the most logical thing to do was check the newspapers from the time. I would urge everyone to make use of the fantastic resource compiled by Seagull and Tahoe with the assistance of Michael Cole and Jake Wark. The link to the thread is below and if you check out the two articles I have listed below you will see the challenge to Zodiac from Police Chief Stiltz to prove he is the killer and the letter writer.

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=1193

“Coded Clue In Murders,” San Francisco Chronicle, 2 August 1969, A4.

“Vallejo Mass Murder Threat Fails,” San Francisco Sunday Examiner and Chronicle, 3 August 1969, A9.

Actually here they are, saves looking for them. There may be more but you can read through them for yourself. I have no doubt that this resource will answer many questions we may have. These may not specifically answer some of your queries WC but as I say, you might find those answers in the articles but I thought these were a good example, at a pinch, of the kind of printed statements that Zodiac, I feel, would have considered a dialogue opportunity of sorts, asking him to prove himself. Something that could certainly explain the apparent need to provide proof the Zodiac did seem to have as outlined in this thread. I suspect this was a police tactic trying to keep him communicating and possible trick him in to revealing something he hadn’t intended to.

“Coded Clue In Murders,” San Francisco Chronicle, 2 August 1969, A4.

“Vallejo Mass Murder Threat Fails,” San Francisco Sunday Examiner and Chronicle, 3 August 1969, A9.

"I have no doubt that this resource will answer many questions we may have. These may not specifically answer some of your queries WC but as I say, you might find those answers in the articles but I thought these were a good example"

I don’t expect answers Trav, nor would I ask anyone to supply me with them because I am well aware that there are no answers while his, or their, identities remain unknown. My intent here in posting this is the same as many of my posts are, that is, not to try and argue for this idea over and above another theory. My intension here is nothing more than to simply point it out as just another alternate to the accepted ‘mainstream’ belief that in this instance is: Zodiac killer, Zodiac letter writer = same individual.

I hope by my posting this, and other posts like it, that it is not interpreted as me believing the theory put forward in the post is one that i am personally trying to push and personally subscribe to. I just like to keep an open mind on many aspects of Zodiac until proof turns up to claim theory A is, without doubt, the truth and we can discard theory B now because we have evidence to show Theory A is correct beyond all reasonable doubt.

"I just feel that the it all came as a whole package for him, the killings and the writing, hence his desire, compulsion even, to make sure they linked."

I couldn’t argue or object to that comment. But I can ask where his ‘desire, even compulsion’ to link his crimes to the letters went? Why, or more accurately, How can someone who seems absolutely obsessed with the media and seems to have an unquenchable thirst for fame and recognition suddenly decide just a few short weeks after executing Stine that he now is able to say to himself and others "you know what, I was obsessed, I did Crave, I was infatuated with, I did have compulsions for all things media, and publicity was something I craved and demanded to satisfy my ego yes, and now I have experienced the absolute power of holding the media to ransom, seeing them print what I demand they print, watching the Bay Area react in horror to my latest outburst and everything else my ego was feeding on daily, I have now decided that this drug that only one month ago i couldn’t seem to do without, I now no longer have the need or craving for as those feelings have all gone away now so i will bid you all farewell?"

I hope by my posting this, and other posts like it, that it is not interpreted as me believing the theory put forward in the post is one that i am personally trying to push and personally subscribe to.

Nope. I was just picking up on the highlighted parts of your opening post.

‘To prove I am the Zodiac…’ as to prove the man writing is the same man who used an electric gun sight, just ask the Vallejo Cop for proof if you don’t believe me!" See the way he words it even, it sounds like hes responding to a claim by someone that he isn’t the Zodiac and nobody has suggested that
Above are a handful of examples to show what I mean, there are dozens upon dozens of other examples I could use like it, and could even suggests that the first three pletter that came with the 3 part cipher is nothing other than an attempt to blend both killer & author into one while making it appear as though the killer simply wants to guarantee he is taken seriously by the press and his letters published so is simply offering proof of claim that he is responsible. Why would he end the Nov 9th, 69 letter by stating "To prove I am the Zodiac…." when by then nobody seemed to voice anything to the contrary and the Letter had arrived with Stines bloody shirt piece? I suspect he isn’t so uch asking the public to believe he is who he says he is, that has already been achieved and his adding of the shirt piece simply left no doubt in most minds, but I think he could be offering this comment .

I was merely pointing out that doubts had been voiced specifically as to whether the letter writer was also the killer. GIven the dates of these articles it seems logical that he actually replied to those doubts and the request for more info. I found it easy to track down thanks to the chronological articles thread. Now that there’s a documented reason for his offering proof I thought knowing that might assist in considering his reasoning for all of his ‘proof’ offering. Doesn’t mean that he did it for the same reason every time but I think it’s important to factor in times when we are reasonably sure why he did it.

Fair point.

And I agree, when he replies that he will be very happy to supply even more material to police, that he is simply responding to a challenge from police to give more evidence. Totally agree that that is the most logical conclusion in that instance. But even if we leave aside the direct comments he makes that are clear attempts by him to show he’s not necessarily the Zodiac, but more specifically, he’s the man who was at Lake Herman, or in the cab to execute Stine etc. The direct statements such as the one you pointed out is down to the challenge by LE, but what about the many other more indirect and less obvious plea’s to the reader for them to recognise him, the writer, as the same man who carries out the crimes of Zodiac? One example being this comment he makes that is both worded in such a way that it may hint at him just trying that little bit too hard. He offers:

"This is the Zodiac Speaking. I am the murderer of the cab driver over by Washington & Maple st last night. To prove this, here is a blood stained piece of his shirt. I am the same man who did in the people in the north bay area."

In written form, he tells us: "I am the same man whoo did in the people in the North Bay Area"

Then in verbal format to describe the same thing over the phone he says: "I also killed those kids last year"

The writer refers to the two victims in writing only as ‘People’, where as the man on the phone will tell you they were ‘Kids’

Now here we have a writer writing with an apparent preference for non specific terminology and prefers to generalise rather than specify by informing the audience that he "did in the people in the north bay area", But then, enter the more personal Zodiac who now seems to want to be far more specific as the north bay area becomes a very specific road, Lake Herman Road, and the non descript and vague description of the victims as ‘The People’ now become a class or type of people, that being "Kids."

So, either Zodiac has multiple personality disorder, which can’t account for it because as ‘Zodiac’ he seems to talk one way on paper, but completely different verbally, or he’s deliberately and consciously using different Words and Phrases to describe the same thing in order to never be ‘typecast’ as having a preference to saying it one way or another, or, the difference in usage of expressions, phrases, words and general Language inconsistencies is down to the two not coming from one person.

So 3 times he makes reference to this double murder on LHR and three times he refers to the victims by different words or phrases.