Hey guys…first post here, but I have been reading the boards since hearing Morf on the Generation Why podcast a while back. Just finished the new Criminology Podcast…which was excellent by the way…and wanted to poll the board about some basic Zodiac facts. I preface the questions with the understanding everything is debatable, but "gun to your head":

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?

Especially interested for the mods- Tahoe, doranchak, Seagull, Morf, etc. to chime in. I see you guys debate various topics all the time, but curious where you currently stand on these major issues.

1. I don’t think we’ll ever know
2. maybe
3. no
4. no
5. yes
6. its gibberish

Hey guys…first post here, but I have been reading the boards since hearing Morf on the Generation Why podcast a while back. Just finished the new Criminology Podcast…which was excellent by the way…and wanted to poll the board about some basic Zodiac facts. I preface the questions with the understanding everything is debatable, but "gun to your head":

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?

Especially interested for the mods- Tahoe, doranchak, Seagull, Morf, etc. to chime in. I see you guys debate various topics all the time, but curious where you currently stand on these major issues.

1. I strongly believe two different people, unknown to each other, did the killings. Shooter Z (LHR, BRS, PH) and Stabber Z (LB). Of the identified suspects, I think TK is the best bet as Shooter Z, otherwise someone as yet unknown. No idea on Stabber Z.
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
6. Both. By using some convoluted methodology or key, the thing might yield some words, but like the 408 solution, they will be meaningless ramblings anyway.

In criminal cases, evidence must be beyond a reasonable doubt.

We are not discussing the prosecuting of an individual.

Of course, we are not in the court of law. Thank god for that.

Less than 1% of the evidence collected by the various Zodiac police departments is known to the public.

You really believe that?

In November 1970 the various jurisdictions compared evidence and determined Zodiac killed Cheri Bates. That’s not up for debate.

Tom. I suppose you’re talking about the DOJ report. If so, I would like to say that it contains some essential ressonance with the basic facts. And if that is so – can it be referred to as a factuality marker?
I personally think it was Zodiac murder and the desktop poem was not the work of the Zodiac – but yes, I believe it is still up to debate.

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?

1 – Don´t have one, since none of our "clews" connects to anyone who has been named until now as a suspect;
2 – Probably not, due to the MO of that killing. I do think that Zodiac (before he named himself as such) was inspired by the murder and wrote the "Confession Letter" and the 3 identical handwritten letters (one of them Bates´s father) in order to claim autorship of the murder and to start his "letter-spree" before he decided to start committing murders himself. Many of the facts stated on the "Confession Letter" were stuff that were already expressed on newspapers articles, so it wasn´t hard for someone who was not the murderer to fabricate a "confession";
3 – No. It appears to me to have been mailed either by a weirdo or a copycat killer in the area;
4 – Probably not. Due to his MO, I don´t see the Zodiac abducting his victims, but who knows? Until her dissapearance is solved, all we can do is speculate;
5 – Oh boy, this one. This is the case that makes my head spin. I have to read more about the abduction in order to get to a conclusion, so I will just say that I don´t know;
6 – Probably gibberish. Zodiac was a dishonest piece of **** who claimed his identity was on the 408 cipher, yet it wasn´t there (along with many other false claims in his letters). So I go for the "gibberish in order to occupy people´s time instead of concentrating on another areas of the investigation" theory for the rest of the other ciphers;

I can only speculate on probabilty based on mostly circumstantial evidence.

1. So far no hard evidence has ever emerged for any of the suspects. However, I think they are all worthy leads, and can understand peoples interest in most of them. I suppose you could say they are all good leads that have never panned out.

2. Again based on probability I can only say that it still remains very likely. I know objections have been raised and holes have been poked, but I think you would have to put a lot of faith in coincidence if you were to conclude that it was anything other than likely.

3. I can’t estimate probability here because I don’t really know how common hoax letters are. I read an article recently that claimed Scotland Yard received hundreds of clearly fake letters during the Ripper murders (aside from the famous ones), but this claim had no citation. Suppose though the probability was only around 15%, would it still be a priceless lead? I think so.

4. I see no compelling reason to believe the probability is less than 50%, and it may be a great deal higher.

5. This one has had so many good objections raised and her story is full of holes. Yet despite that, I would still have to put the probability at least a little above 50%. A killer was on the loose, someone set a car on fire, and the Zodiac claimed it was him, what is so fundamentally unlikely about this?

6. We can only speculate. It would seem to me that it would be disatisfying to write gibberish if your goal was to outsmart people, but then writing gibberish would ensure no one would ever outsmart you, so it’s impossible to say.

I think it’s important not to be gullible, but also think there can be a temptation and thrill to playing the contrarian in the guise of scientific frugality. I also think it’s easy to become captivated by outlandish suspects. It is thrilling to imagine Zodiac being a Millionare, or the Unabomber and I think there is an element of contrainism in that thinking too.

Hey guys…first post here, but I have been reading the boards since hearing Morf on the Generation Why podcast a while back. Just finished the new Criminology Podcast…which was excellent by the way…and wanted to poll the board about some basic Zodiac facts. I preface the questions with the understanding everything is debatable, but "gun to your head":

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?

Especially interested for the mods- Tahoe, doranchak, Seagull, Morf, etc. to chime in. I see you guys debate various topics all the time, but curious where you currently stand on these major issues.

1. I don’t think we have brushed close against a POI. I don’t think law enforcement has made contact with the Zodiac, which means he’s not known. That being said, if I HAD to choose I’m going Ross Sullivan and Dick Gyke a close second.
2. Man…that’s a good question. Did Z do it, or just write about it? I think he did it.
3. IF it’s Gyke, I think so, yes he did.
4. Nope.
5. Yes.
6. Gibberish!!!!

1. "rh". I have a name, but my POI is alive.
2. Yes.
3. Don’t know.
4. Don’t know.
5, Yes.
6. Gibberish.

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)? – My favorite suspect is Arthur Leigh Allen.
2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates? – I don’t think so. Unless Zodiac was Ross Sullivan.
3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters? – Maybe. There are at least three Zodiac suspects with Albany connections. Ross Sullivan, Lawrence Kane, and Richard Gaikowski.
4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim? – I don’t think so. Unless Zodiac was Lawrence Kane.
5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around? – Maybe.
6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish? – I think there is something in there. It might take another 50 years to solve it though.

1. unknown suspect
2. maybe – prob not
3. no
4. no
5. maybe – prob not
6. yes but a mistake in transcription could have rendered it indecipherable

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
My own, through ca 15 years,POI.
So far I have not been able to find any info that clear him.
I have tons of VERY strong circumstantial evidence.
Unfortunately no 100% smoking gun, yet.
(FYI, I will not share info about my suspect, I have my reasons, please respect that.)

2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
Probably.

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
Possibly.
I think the handwriting show similarities with Zodiac handwriting.

4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
Not sure about that.

5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
Probably.

6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?
I think it can be solved.
I think it is possible that the original text was written in a foreign languish,
and that is why it has not been solved yet.
Suggestion: I think the 340 cipher, if possible, should be looked at by Daniel Tammet
the absolute eminent savant, and if he believe that he himself is not the right savant to do it,
Daniel Tammet would probably know who would be the right one (savant) to look at it.

Links to info and documentary about Daniel Tammet:

http://www.danieltammet.net/about.php

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the … -1.4292279

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxVpQ485Vx8 )
Brain Man (Daniel Tammet)
Full Documentary by Reel Truth Documentaries (ca 50 minutes)

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)?
2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates?
3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters?
4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim?
5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around?
6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish?

1. No idea.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
5. No.
6. No (but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s "gibberish" as such).

That is – "gun to your head" and all that.

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)? Of the known suspects Lawrence Kane is my favorite due to the high probability that he killed Dana Lull. Having committed an intentional homicide is both a statistically rare trait and one that correlates more than anything else with being a serial killer. None of the other suspects that are a real good fit can be shown to have likely committed a murder. I don’t think other serial killer suspects such as EE, TK or GSK fit due to various timeline and other problems. That said I struggle to even give Kane a 10% chance of being the zodiac when I apply math to all the arguments for his guilt. So most likely the Zodiac is an unknown subject.
2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates? He almost certainly wrote the confession letter, however the MO doesn’t particularly fit for the murder other than the Lake Berryessa attack which I believe may not have been Zodiac. In my opinion Cheri Jo was led away from her car at gunpoint, which explains the open door, keys in the ignition and lack of signs of struggle on the route between her car and the alley. I think it is less than fifty/fifty that Cheri knew her killer or that he was familiar with RCC. About 20%.
3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters? No idea.
4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim? About 20%
5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around? The Lawrence Kane identification seems pretty strong given that she most certainly didn’t know him, yet described a car that he matched the car he owned when she identified him. LK is almost certainly a bad apple but probably not the Zodiac.
6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish? Probably an actual solvable cipher, but It is purely academic as the Zodiac didn’t give out useful information in his ciphers.

I see I’ve never replied to this thread. Don’t know how I forgot. Anyway…

1. Who is the Zodiac (your favorite/most likely suspect)? An unknown person. I don’t think we’ve ever picked up on the correct person.

2. Did Zodiac kill Cheri Jo Bates? I’m very doubtful he was the killer. He may very well have written the "Bates had to die" letters.

3. Did Zodiac send the Albany letters? Doubtful.

4. Is Donna Lass a Zodiac victim? Over the years I’ve become more doubtful about this. Just too different and no body ever found. Z made no effort to hide his victims. He wanted them found.

5. Was that really the Zodiac driving Kathleen Johns around? Maybe, but again doubtful. I do think Johns’ kidnapper did resemble the composite.

6. Can the 340 cipher be solved or is it just gibberish? I do think it can be solved. If the FBI is correct about only the central part containing a message, that makes it much, much tougher to solve.

Well, at least I was right about the cipher. Time will tell on the others…or not.