Your over-reliance on The GSK as an analogue for Zodiac is misplaced IMO. As Richard has pointed it, the two are unrelated and have no bearing on the other.

I can just as easily use Dennis Rader as an example of someone who was suspected of being LE, but was just a wannabe.

The Zodiac case won’t be solved by repeatedly drawing parallels with GSK.

This is one my favorite true crime posts to read https://earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/1655/ear-cop

Especially the reasons doubting EARONS was a cop.

As for Rader. Compliance officer with a Bachelors in Administrative Justice I believe.

Just a side note the composite for Rader wasn’t bad considering it was from male who survived the attack after being shot twice, once in the head.

You missed my point entirely.

There folks who were convinced that BTK was a cop.

He ended up as a dog catcher because it was the closest he could get to being a cop. He was a wannabe, not a LEO.

Look, your twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to make this all fit. A piece of advice? When it comes to this case, be humble. Admit when your wrong. Take the loss. Just say, “I guess you’re right.”

I’m always adjusting my opinions about the case the more I learn about it – the more facts that are presented to me.

You seem to making the mistake many involved in this case do: come in with an opinion first and then try to make the facts fit your opinion. It should be the other way around.

I’ll end with this. I hope you’re right. I hope your POI is the Zodiac. Because that means the case is solved, and that is why I do this.

But the best investigators seek to eliminate their suspects, not confirm them. If something doesn’t fit, you have to be willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Detectives do it all the time.

You missed my point entirely.

There folks who were convinced that BTK was a cop.

He ended up as a dog catcher because it was the closest he could get to being a cop. He was a wannabe, not a LEO.

Look, your twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to make this all fit. A piece of advice? When it comes to this case, be humble. Admit when your wrong. Take the loss. Just say, “I guess you’re right.”

I’m always adjusting my opinions about the case the more I learn about it – the more facts that are presented to me.

You seem to making the mistake many involved in this case do: come in with an opinion first and then try to make the facts fit your opinion. It should be the other way around.

I’ll end with this. I hope you’re right. I hope your POI is the Zodiac. Because that means the case is solved, and that is why I do this.

But the best investigators seek to eliminate their suspects, not confirm them. If something doesn’t fit, you have to be willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Detectives do it all the time.

Yeah, that’s the problem for those who tie themselves to a specific POI or theory, they have a hard time accepting anything that opposes their theory. It’s not the way to go about the case. I kind of envy those who think they have it solved though, it’s not fun thinking we actually know very little about who was Zodiac, or the case in it’s entirety. I like to say the only thing I am certain of concerning Zodiac is that some people were murdered and someone wrote some letters.

I’ve long said that embarrassing police seemed to be Zodiac’s main motivation, and it’s entirely possible he was a wanna be police who couldn’t cut it, or even a police officer who felt like he had been passed over for detective and this was his way of showing them he was better than they were and proving it to himself.

It’s also possible he wasn’t LEO, but held a grudge against them. His line in that one letter where he said to the police something about "how does it feel to have your boo-boos rubbed in your face" could be an indication he or a family member were arrested for something and publicly humiliated, possibly through newspaper stories. It could have cost them a job, or a promising military career if he was ex-military.

I don’t tie myself to any of that thinking however nor to any POI.

You missed my point entirely.

There folks who were convinced that BTK was a cop.

He ended up as a dog catcher because it was the closest he could get to being a cop. He was a wannabe, not a LEO.

When I was on the BTK chat rooms run by Tom before he was caught I remember the conversations and the dog conversation came up because of the first attack on the Otero family when the dog was locked outside by someone. The dog wasn’t friendly. EARONS also had encounters with dogs. They formed a chapter in my book (not a POI book) about dogs and serial killers. Anyway it was suggested BTK was a dog catcher in the chat room for that reason. I don’t remember cop so much but I remember dog catcher! It made a good case for EARONS being one also. It is a pity the BTK site is gone. I can’t remember if it had forums or not but I do remember the chat room.

Look, your twisting yourself into a pretzel trying to make this all fit. A piece of advice? When it comes to this case, be humble. Admit when your wrong. Take the loss. Just say, “I guess you’re right.” I’m always adjusting my opinions about the case the more I learn about it – the more facts that are presented to me. You seem to making the mistake many involved in this case do: come in with an opinion first and then try to make the facts fit your opinion. It should be the other way around. I’ll end with this. I hope you’re right. I hope your POI is the Zodiac. Because that means the case is solved, and that is why I do this. But the best investigators seek to eliminate their suspects, not confirm them. If something doesn’t fit, you have to be willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Detectives do it all the time.

Okay this is going to be something that I suppose haunts everything else I say and do. However I would like to put things in their right order for you.

First of all I think no POI is the Zodiac based on probabilities (viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4744#p78453)

I have always believed the Zodiac was off the radar. If my POI doesn’t work out, I still will believe that.

I have always believed that the Zodiac will match the Presidio Heights composite and is a reason why I have rejected POIs (like ALA) if there is also other things pointing away from them. This won’t change even if my POI is ruled out. I will always be in that camp for the reasons I have laid out, namely I think its a strong composite because of LE corroboration.

I have always believed that he was Military for the reasons I have given. Obviously that view has been around for decades. It leans that way but there is nothing definite.

Because of EARONS I have decided on the view he was connected to LE or was LE. Even if my POI is ruled out, I will still believe this for the reasons I have given but most importantly it can explain why he wasn’t looked into. A good example is even what is happening in the 21st century 50 years after the events.

It was the belief in those things that helped me notice Farley from a larger body of possible candidates.

I noticed this thread was starting to doubt the OPs view on the Military connection and therefore dismiss Skagg Island. I am giving reasons why I think that we should probably still consider it.

Who knows Zodiac could be a felon running the length of California, unemployed and on a death-wish who finally threw himself off a bridge in the early 70s.

Bump

You have stated that Donald Farley was born in 1937, therefore 32 years by 1969. You put a lot of credence in the Presidio Heights sketch and corroborating eyewitnesses from October 11th 1969.

The children never stated that the suspect was 25 to 30 years of age, that description was attributed to the first sketch by whomever designed it (to which the teenagers requested an amendment). What they actually said in the police report is "WMA, in his early forties, 5’8”, heavy build, reddish-blond "crew-cut" hair, wearing eyeglasses, dark brown trousers, dark (navy blue or black) "Parka" jacket, dark shoes". This description had to come from the teenagers, because the police report additionally stated "The suspect was last seen walking north on Cherry St. from Washington St".

Donald Fouke was quoted as saying the suspect was 35-45 (median age 40). The eyewitnesses at Spruce Street stated "about 40". Therefore we have 35-45 (average 40), "early 40s" and "about 40". That puts the suspect at Presidio Heights marginally over 40 years of age, taken from a minimum of six eyewitnesses in a 5 minute period. You stated that these were the best eyewitnesses based on corroborative viewing. Therefore, you have a discrepancy of at least 8 years to Farley.

May I may a suggestion? How about taking to the Farley thread? I would certainly address that there. I think the point I wanted to make here was that I noticed this thread was starting to doubt the OPs view on the Military connection and therefore dismiss Skagg Island. I am giving reasons why I think that we should probably still consider it. I didn’t bring up Farley but since he has been brought up I think the Farley thread the best place for it.

Hopefully I have given some pathways to why the OP’s military connection consideration shouldn’t be dismissed just because civilians can do those things also.

words.

BTK murdered the Oteros in 1974. He became a dog catcher in 1991. Your telling me his one time encounter with a dog 17 years prior…never mind…I can’t even.

Basically what you’re saying is I don’t care about facts or evidence, just speculation and “gut feelings”. I believe what I believe and nothing will change my mind.

All I can say is “good luck”.

words.

BTK murdered the Oteros in 1974. He became a dog catcher in 1991. Your telling me his one time encounter with a dog 17 years prior…never mind…I can’t even.

I talk about this in my book. I even mention it was 17 years after. Here is what I had to say…

So what are we to make of this sleuthing about a dog catcher? On the one hand, it is wrong. In 1974 Rader was not a dog catcher. On the other hand, if investigators had a list of those employed in dog catching in Witchita in the contemporary, they would have had a dog catcher with a Jeep Cherokee after their discovery following the January 2005 parking lot surveillance video. Is the employment of a dog catcher just a coincidence? Possibly, but a possible coincidence is a reason to look into the matter more. This should go for any possible flukes in any crime. They might be flukes, but such a possibility is not grounds to stop looking at them more. Who knows? They might end up being connected. In fact, connections should also appear as possible coincidences. Real-world investigative constraints such as time and resources are why people stop looking at them. The sleuthing community, therefore, would be an appropriate venue to keep such interest active in the minds of more people.

Dennis Rader seems to have chosen a job at a later time that gave him access to dogs and a reason to get rid of them. So the theory that BTK was a dog catcher was both wrong and right. It was wrong, in that BTK always worked as a dog catcher throughout his early crimes, but it was probably right in that BTK wanted a job like this to make his criminal life easier for himself.

So are we to conclude that dog catchers are potential stalkers and serial killers? No, absolutely not. This would be working backward from a suspect drive theory, whereas we worked forward with the evidence by getting a glimpse into the mind of how this killer operated when it came to the family dog of his first murder. Dog catchers are no more or less likely to be severe offenders than any other profession. Context is everything, and following the evidence is what leads us along, not suspect driven theories.

Then I discuss EARONS and dogs because… he did exactly the same thing. The dog connection there is one of the things that connected him up. Stealing dog repellent.

As for evidence. I will tell you this. If the forensic science doesn’t match Farley that’s it. Done. No need trying to keep a POI going after that. I don’t buy the view the science is wrong.

When I was on the BTK chat rooms run by Tom…

So you’ve been following Zodiackiller.com since 1998, and used to frequent my BTK chat room? What was your user name?

When I was on the BTK chat rooms run by Tom…

So you’ve been following Zodiackiller.com since 1998, and used to frequent my BTK chat room? What was your user name?

I can’t remember what I used. What I do remember was it was black in design. Like black background to the text. I can’t remember if the text color was white or green.

People used it quite a bit and dog catcher was a topic for awhile. I also remember you weren’t there and everyone was asking where you were. The one day it was gone. Poof. Right after BTK was captured.

As note one of Rader’s targets had a dog and he had it destroyed. He claimed it had broken out. She claimed he lied. He harassed her and eventually she moved away which probably saved her life.

Here is a video of Dennis Rader handling dogs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2lUx9u_ihM

Skaggs Island was a Top Secret radio surveillance and cryptologic communications installation operated by the Navy. Several antennas, miles across, were built in the surrounding marshlands. They were used to intercept secret radio communications from all around the globe and the cryptologists stationed there would then decode them. The base contained over 100 buildings including dozens of houses, a mess hall, recreation center, bachelor’s quarters, and administrative buildings.

The Radio Receiving Station at Skaggs Island was re-established on July 1, 1962, and was renamed NAVRADSTA (R) Skaggs Island, CA.
Operating primarily as an HFDF (High Frequency Direction Finding) communications facility.

The NSGA Skaggs Island, California
There are a number of people who were stationed there during the time of the Zodiac that are still alive with emails listed.
Veterans E-mail Roster: https://www.navycthistory.com/skaggs_em … r_a-k.html

In the early 1950’s, Building 43 was built to house the communication facilities. These facilities were subsequently moved to Stockton. In later years, the signals received at the Receivers Building at Skaggs Island, were transmitted to NCS San Francisco on a microwave link via a microwave tower built on Mt. Diablo. The original communications facility, Building 43, ultimately became the NSGA Skaggs Island Administration building.

In case anyone’s interested, here’s an excerpt from the FBI’s Zodiac files mentioning Vallejo police sending the ciphers to Skaggs:

Skaggs Island was a Top Secret radio surveillance and cryptologic communications installation operated by the Navy. Several antennas, miles across, were built in the surrounding marshlands. They were used to intercept secret radio communications from all around the globe and the cryptologists stationed there would then decode them. The base contained over 100 buildings including dozens of houses, a mess hall, recreation center, bachelor’s quarters, and administrative buildings.

The Radio Receiving Station at Skaggs Island was re-established on July 1, 1962, and was renamed NAVRADSTA (R) Skaggs Island, CA.
Operating primarily as an HFDF (High Frequency Direction Finding) communications facility.

The NSGA Skaggs Island, California
There are a number of people who were stationed there during the time of the Zodiac that are still alive with emails listed.
Veterans E-mail Roster: https://www.navycthistory.com/skaggs_em … r_a-k.html

They also have an active facebook group. Some of the people on there will mention the years they were stationed at Skaggs. I’m scrolling through posts on there out of boredom and to see if anyone catches my eye. Check out the guy in the top row, third from right. This photo is from sometime between 1966 and 1969….

"Chief Don Dunlap and I wrote a Simulated Operational Training (SOT3) program that was real popular and dealt with the Asian Theater and included Vietnam."

Asian theater, huh?