onewhoknows, Subject: The meaning of the word Zodiac Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:41 pm

Just thought this was interesting for you analytical science buffs
from Wikipedia….

See also: Zodiac

The Earth in its orbit around the Sun causes the Sun to appear on the celestial sphere moving over the ecliptic (red), which is tilted with respect to the equator (blue).
In both astrology and historical astronomy, the zodiac (Greek: ζῳδιακός, zōdiakos) is a circle of twelve 30° divisions of celestial longitude that are centered upon the ecliptic: the apparent path of the Sun across the celestial sphere over the course of the year. The paths of the Moon and visible planets also remain close to the ecliptic, within the belt of the zodiac, which extends 8-9° north or south of the ecliptic, as measured in celestial latitude. Historically, these twelve divisions are called signs. Essentially, the zodiac is a celestial coordinate system, or more specifically an ecliptic coordinate system, which takes the ecliptic as the origin of latitude, and the position of the sun at vernal equinox as the origin of longitude.

entropy, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:38 am

Just thought this was interesting for you analytical science buffs
from Wikipedia….

See also: Zodiac

The Earth in its orbit around the Sun causes the Sun to appear on the celestial sphere moving over the ecliptic (red), which is tilted with respect to the equator (blue).
In both astrology and historical astronomy, the zodiac (Greek: ζῳδιακός, zōdiakos) is a circle of twelve 30° divisions of celestial longitude that are centered upon the ecliptic: the apparent path of the Sun across the celestial sphere over the course of the year. The paths of the Moon and visible planets also remain close to the ecliptic, within the belt of the zodiac, which extends 8-9° north or south of the ecliptic, as measured in celestial latitude. Historically, these twelve divisions are called signs. Essentially, the zodiac is a celestial coordinate system, or more specifically an ecliptic coordinate system, which takes the ecliptic as the origin of latitude, and the position of the sun at vernal equinox as the origin of longitude.

…which fits Zodiac’s chosen personal symbol. I’ve never understood why folks had so much difficulty connecting the name and symbol. The name represents the symbol and vice versa and Zodiac was aware of that whether or not he had any real interest in astrology.

bentley, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:52 am

I’ve never understood why folks had so much difficulty connecting the name and symbol.

Perhaps because the symbol came first, looking like a gun sight, and he never made any real astrological references (IIRC).

I agree though, likely explanation.

Or it was his boat.

Or his car.

Or his watch.

entropy, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:10 pm

I’ve never understood why folks had so much difficulty connecting the name and symbol.

Perhaps because the symbol came first, looking like a gun sight, and he never made any real astrological references (IIRC).

I agree though, likely explanation.

Or it was his boat.

Or his car.

Or his watch.

Point taken, bentley. I guess I just don’t see any psychological significance to naming yourself after your boat, car or watch. It’s entirely possible that Zodiac’s identification with his personal symbol evolved over time. Just pointing out that the name and symbol are indeed connected and that Zodiac demonstrated an awareness of that fact.

KEY.SMITH697, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:05 pm

:flower: i agree, entropy: wHY BE ONE WHEN yOU CAn be ManY. I believe he named himself Zodiac after all the sigh. :scratch: iT MAKES SCENT, BECAUSE OF ALL THE KILLINGS, IN THE YB :study: BY R.G.S.{AKA} The Cartoonist He points out all the differnt ways the victoms were killed. You see it kept him amused, :clown: alway changhing. He could be like an actor in a movie, playing his part.

bentley, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:07 pm

Oh I agree, I was funnin’ I don’t see the materialistic connection either. People do sometimes name their dog Chevy or some such, and then there’s nicknames like Cadillac Williams, the football player. I doubt our boy was ever Zodiac Fred for obvious reasons. "The Zodiac, that’s Fred!"

We still don’t know how ALA first came to light. I wonder if someone knew about his watch, and his ‘habits’.

zodio, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Sat May 05, 2012 9:10 pm

Also his ciphers contain numberous zodiac symbols so imo he was well aware of it.

entropy, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Mon May 07, 2012 1:36 pm

Also his ciphers contain numberous zodiac symbols so imo he was well aware of it.

Hmm… While I do think Z was probably aware of Zodiac symbols, zodio, I have to take issue with his using "numerous zodiac symbols" in the ciphers. In fact, I’d argue that he didn’t use ANY clearly defined Zodiac symbols.

Here’s what we have:

* a symbol that resembles an upside-down Aries symbol in the My Name Is and Button Letter ciphers.

* a horseshoe-like symbol in the Button Letter cipher that kind of resembles the symbol for Leo but is far closer to an omega or horseshoe.

* Z’s personal cross/circle symbol and dotted circles which CAN be symbols for Earth but could just easily be random geometric symbols.

Am I missing anything? I think it’s quite possible that Z threw these symbols in to make us wonder about his connection with astrology and the celestial Zodiac but I would hardly say it indicates a fascination with it.

Jem, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Tue May 08, 2012 11:38 pm

I thought someone showed a magnification of the MY NAME IS – cipher, where it appeared that the circled 8 symbols were actually the Taurus sign circled. Anyone remember? That Taurus symbol is supposed to represent a bull, but it looks more like a little demon, imo, so that could be why Z used it.

, Subject: Mag. of My Name Is Wed May 09, 2012 7:24 am

I thought someone showed a magnification of the MY NAME IS – cipher, where it appeared that the circled 8 symbols were actually the Taurus sign circled. Anyone remember? That Taurus symbol is supposed to represent a bull, but it looks more like a little demon, imo, so that could be why Z used it.

From this blowup (thanks, Ricardo), it looks like they are "eights" and NOT Taurus symbols. To me, they are clearly connected on top… not that this is going to help solve the cipher.

bentley, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Wed May 09, 2012 9:58 pm

He could have simply used Os. Perhaps there is some alternate meaning. Same with the 4th and 10th symbols, plenty of alphabetic letters to chose from.

Or could it be that the AENKM and cross hair are the same plaintext as the 340, and the circle 8s represent a plaintext letter not used in the 340 message?

bayarea60s, Subject: The symbols the signs Thu May 10, 2012 1:16 am

Great insights here. And Jem yes you’re correct it has been discussed many times, the 8’s/Taurus signs. Since 1969 I’ve thought the crosshair symbol / Zodiac symbol was both. Z’s sense of humor coming through, being clever. What’s your sign? was a very popular question that was asked constantly in the Bay Area during the Z days. Maybe he was saying, "Here’s my sign", the sign of death. I think he was a student of the Astrological world to some degree. I think it either drove him, or he wanted others to think it was driving him. I always saw him as someone who spent some time studying the Astro world, understood it, and maybe used it to mis-direct authorities. Just my thought….

Jem, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Thu May 10, 2012 1:24 am

Thanks, BigZ. I think you’re right. The first circled 8 looks like it’s not quite closed at the top. Probably because that wasn’t Z’s usual style for 8s.

onewhoknows, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Thu May 10, 2012 1:26 am

Astronomy as opposed to being into Astrology. IMO.

patinky, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Thu May 10, 2012 3:54 pm

How about instead of a Taurus symbol it could be two circles within a larger circle? Would a mathematical concept apply to the meaning of the word Zodiac?

I don’t have anything in particular in my mind about this but it is such a curious symbol to use.

Duhhhh….yes, the Taurus symbol is two circles in a circle. What I MEANT was do three circles have any significance in some mathematical concept.

Seagull, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Thu May 10, 2012 9:35 pm

patinky, I understand what you mean and have considerd that the symbol might be a Cancer sign which if written sloppily could look like two circles within a circle. Check out how the Zodiac signs are depicted in a merchant marine handbook.

patinky, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Thu May 10, 2012 10:13 pm

patinky, I understand what you mean and have considerd that the symbol might be a Cancer sign which if written sloppily could look like two circles within a circle. Check out how the Zodiac signs are depicted in a merchant marine handbook.

(for brevity, image removed by patinky)

The Merchant Marines use Zodiac symbols???? Well, I’ve just learned something new. I assume they use them in an astronomical way instead of astrological?

I think each symbol used in the ciphers was carefully selected. I don’t think I’m smart enough to figure it out. :cyclops:

Seagull, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Thu May 10, 2012 10:32 pm

They are used in celestial navigation.

soccer, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Thu May 10, 2012 10:42 pm

I have wondered if the zodiac killer is really tied to zodiac astrology and witchcraft too , and think he maybe.
Graysmith thought and pointed out some murders were tied to or corresponded to lunar cycles ,which is a basis of the witchcraft belief, a sort of moon zodiac
Here is a interesting site that talks of the conection with them, if so I’d bet he /they have a moon in scorpio fixation

http://www.willowstar.org/astrology.html

patinky, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Thu May 10, 2012 10:49 pm

Personally, I don’t see an astrology or witchcraft angle but then I don’t know much about either one.

If he believes in having slaves in Paradice (sic) he definitely isn’t an aetheist or Christian.

Jem, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Fri May 11, 2012 12:53 am

Personally, I don’t see an astrology or witchcraft angle but then I don’t know much about either one.

If he believes in having slaves in Paradice (sic) he definitely isn’t an aetheist or Christian.

But like Bayarea says, Z was either into astrology or else wanted people to think he was. Or, he was making fun of astrology. Otherwise, why call yourself Zodiac? Either way, there’s some kind of link.

Could Z have been a Jehovah’s witness or raised as one? They believe that "good" people will be resurrected and given a new body, then they will live on Earth for the rest of eternity. I.e., Earth = Paradise.

bentley, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Fri May 11, 2012 9:35 am

patinky, I understand what you mean and have considerd that the symbol might be a Cancer sign which if written sloppily could look like two circles within a circle. Check out how the Zodiac signs are depicted in a merchant marine handbook.

Interesting Seagull. Bet I know who had the book. What do you make of these babies, from the 340? He did use a forward and backward J but going to them seems a bit much. Boat anchor?

Seagull, Subject: Re: The meaning of the word Zodiac Fri May 11, 2012 11:26 am

I don’t know what Zodiac was thinking when making up his key for the ciphers but I do think he may have been inspired by certain symbols that he was familar with and possibly merged two to make one. It’s doubtful that any of those symbols retained their original meaning.

Here is the page preceding the one I’ve already posted. It has the Greek alphabet and there are possibly more Greek inspired symbols in the ciphers than astrology inspired ones. The uppercase Upsilon is a dead ringer for what most people refer to as an upside down Aries symbol.