Tahoe what I find interesting in the report is this

"They are two miles north of the park headquarters"

Probably most of the locals went up to The Lake (Berryessa) at one time or another, however, I imagine very few knew of the existence and or location of the Park Headquarters.

We went up there to have good times and were not really interested in this info.

I do think however, if an individual or family camped up there they might have be familiar with the Park Headquarters as a permit might have been required. Don’t know, I went up their mostly to hang out with my friends swim/boat and ski.

So a camper, someone seeking a fishing licenses, park ranger or the Berryessa residence (Mobil Home Park, Cabins/Mobile home property) for instance might know of the headquarters / field office but someone just driving by to commit murder – possible but not sure how probable.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DFR4.html

Maybe he pulled off the road to masturbate. We all know sometimes it can take time. And there are no records of when Radar was on or off base? I am aghast! Internet research based on blogs is about as pathetic as you can get. Take your button to the library, write a FOIA, do something before you charge the world 40 bucks for it.

I am sorry, but anyone who joins this board based on an insane, non-credible book- they wrote should be booted off without question.

I keep hoping for logic, but bowing down to people like this is incredulous. BTK? Why didn’t she write his friend Scott Bonn and ask him. Why would he still be lying at this point? And when something doesn’t make sense, its not true… unless there is a profit margin involved. Really? BTK? Incredulous.

And yet again, instead of people doing real research, there will be a waste of energy disproving crap.

-M

Bahahaha……love it…..and i haven’t even had my coffee yet….

I know your serious marie and have nothing against your post. All I can do is say thankz for starting my day off right!

Soze

Marie, an all of read after this. I would like to clarify a point. Kimberly McGath known as Kim on this site is the individual who per her introduction has written a book. Any reference to research concerning this book has nothing to do with me.

I simply read on various sites that I feel are credible that there potentially "could have been" 40 mins (BRS) and 20 min (LB) of unaccounted for time.

As a "WHAT IF" I thought what if I took the most logical route between BRS and LB and plotted where 40 mins heading to LB from BRS and 20 mins heading from LB to BRS what location would I wind up at?

Now the interesting part is in an area where I could have wound up with littler or no homes, stores … I would up at the one place where there did exist a store and that is Moscowite Corners.

Between BRS and LB there is really only one route and that is the route I used to perform my "WHAT IF"

My what if was actually posted so that perhaps someone with more knowledge could take a look at and say doesn’t fit or maybe there is something here.

So I hope this clears up any confusion as to why I asked the question I did. However, if you think I have written a book, researched blogs … this is in correct.

I am just a girl who grew un in the shadow of the Zodiac.

My apologies Dee, the two main posts under new members were overlapping and you had posted in hers, so I got confusion. Other than any criticism regarding her book, I apologize for anything directed at you.

I do think there are a number of possibilities with regard to the time lapse, and I know of late people on the board have been exploring issues about it, and their relevance. They may prove true, they may be reporting errors, there are a lot of possibilities.

My advice on this or any board is stay open minded, but don’t give mind to the "crazies" for lack of a better word. I have explored many things that I have not posted because they might seem "crazy" until I have better proof under my belt, and with FOIA nowadays, access to old newspapers, etc.- a lot can be confirmed. And always be careful if someone does it for profit.

I do suggest Scott Bonn’s book, "Why We Love Serial Killers," as he is "friends" and a "pen pal" with BTK. He also has a lot of newer insight into serial killing. Originally, I read a lot of John Douglas who was one of the founders of the FBI "profiling" division, but with each new case, more is learned. There was a general belief all serial killers do it for sexual gratification, even after the crime as many don’t include rape.

Before BTK, no one thought a serial killer could stop, and he did for many years, but he was able to by masturbating with his "trophies" and enjoying a relationship with his wife. As far as we know Z didn’t take trophies, but maybe it was his letter writing that gave him his satisfaction.

-M

PS. I had recently seen an article that Lake Berryessa had been leased to private entities that stacked homes, mostly trailers, closely together, even in violation of fire codes. Owners often rented them out on weekends or by the week for profit to hunters/fisherman. They are now in disrepair and the lease is up and returning to the State. Without knowing the timeframe, I would also wonder if Z he had a rental nearby at LB, especially since he also took the time to write on Bryan Hartnell’s car.

Marie, you are correct. When I first joined the site I was in the introduction section and reading Kim’s intro, at that point I posted my intro and then realized I had posted in error so I went and created my own intro. Sorry for the confusion it created.

And yes you are correct. There have always been (at least from the time when I first went up there) facilities such as mobile homes, cabins, camper space rentals and the likes. Some vacationed there and some lived there on a more permanent basis. Hunting and fishing also took place there both in season and out of season if you know what I mean.

So one who was there with murder on their mind – might not necessarily set off alarms if they were stopped with guns and or knives due to the hunting that took place in the area. My brothers’ hunted deer at Berryessa, but from what I understand turkey, quail, rabbit and other area animals were also hunted near there.

I would imagine after the brutal murder and attempted murder the assailant must have been covered in a substantial amount of blood. Which makes me wonder where he cleaned himself up? Now this does not mean he rented or owned a facility up there (he could have been squatting in a cabin during off season – who knows) but one would think he did need to rather quickly clean himself up.

I just can’t imagine that “Z” would go into a public shower (I do believe these facilities existed there at the time) but who knows – he could have been crazy enough too – or even jump in the lake, wash off, and change into clean clothes, one just does not know. But I do think he was familiar with the area and I think he came prepared. So I agree, he certainly could have resided or had access to a facility there.

What we really know is limited and “Z” mentioning he just escaped from Denver (yep saw that in one official report) and then Montana and killing a guard (saw that in another official report) could have just been a scare tactic to scare his two victims into submission.

I don’t think “Z” was some random convict unfamiliar with the area, this man had to clean up and clean up fast. Well who knows maybe he did drive or walk around covered in substantial blood, I guess he could have said he was just hunting AND he would not have been lying.

And finally the three young girls who reporting seeing a rather good looking man are probably very fortunate to be alive. After reading the NCSD Reports it seemed to me, at least, that this individual might have been stalking them first.

Actually, it might be worth while, for someone who can obtain the information, to see if they can get a list of the hunting licenses in California or around the area and see if any known suspects (or new) turn up.

It appears that a questionnaire was sent out to hunters in the Napa and Solano Counties and approximaty 50% returned the questionnaire. Now if Zodiac really did find hunting people to me the most dangerous game … He might have also been a legit hunter?

I performed a Google search for "Deer hunting season 1969"

And found the following document that mentions the approximate 50% return rate. Now it was just a sampling of hunters that received the questionnaire, but if checking of hunting licenses has not already preformed it could possibly yield some info missed or overlooked at the time.

THE LINK BELOW WILL DOWNLOAD 69 HUNTING STATS
https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx … ntID=82971

That might actually be a great idea to do and I don’t recall anyone trying it before. It looks like, unless I’m reading it wrong, it can be FOIA-ed- https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/General-Cou … s-Requests
– assuming the records still exist. Heck, California sends out unofficial death/autopsy certificates,- I can’t imagine hunting license would be excluded but you never know- driver’s licenses are excluded, I believe.

I have felt he had some experience in the outdoors, but I hesitated to think military as his pistol shots were awful, especially with a .22 semiautomatic pistol he used in the first Vallejo murders of Betty Lou Jenson and David Faraday. I know technology has improved, but I fired a gun for the first time a couple months ago, one .38 and 3 different .22’s and did really well, by the end I was nearing the center at a much greater distance than Betty Lou was. But he could have had more experience with rifles and wasn’t prepared for using a pistol, or was a bow hunter to increase the challenge. And he certainly was efficient with Cheri Jo Bates when he used a knife in Riverside if that is part of the Z murdering, though you would have to question the technique at Lake Berryessa since Hartnell survived.

Full supposition here, but I also wondered why he took time to write on the car door the information about the previous killings and could have easily been caught. All he would have needed to do is remove his "Zodiac" executioner hooded costume that night and set it on fire- I assume there would be fire pit areas, especially some people might want to cook their catch. The hood that night would have protected his face from the blood splatters, and then Z could circle back and write on the car. If the police showed up for some reason, have a dead animal with you and any blood could be explained. I don’t think I have seen a police report where they mentioned much about searching other than the immediate area and following the footprints.

Many people might think he wouldn’t have a license so he couldn’t be identified, but I would think the opposite it true. If you are caught out with guns, knives, covered in blood, you have the perfect alibi. Even rope as it could be used to tie legs together on game.

There is an email, I will send off a message and see if records are available around those times. Many of us have dug through so many tedious files, from old Polk directories to yearbooks, police reports, newspapers. It says the records might be, well, a mess, or as they say not "indexed."

Cool thought and possibly a new lead to follow! I don’t post much anymore, but I’m glad I, uh, yelled at you. Sorry again.

And any questions about the board, feel free to PM me.

-M

Marie, you make me smile and no problem. My hope is that perhaps I could offer a different perspective because I grew up in the area. I grew up with four brothers and two of them hunted up there. But yes I agree completely what a perfect alibi if one was caught with guns, knives, rope, bow and arrows … and blood on them. I actually think it might have been deer season then.

And perhaps, just a thought, maybe "Z" wrote the message on the Karmann Ghia before he attacked his victims. I mean it would be expedient, a bit cocky, and one less thing to deal with as he tried to get away. If he was caught writing on the car before the crime occured he might have been able to play it off as a sick joke.

So if he was unsuccessful in killing the individuals he had stalked (and wrote he attacked prior to the actual attack), no harm no fowl, it still would have accomplished putting fear into the hearts of the locals and greater Bay Area residents. So for him that might have been a win win, who knows?

Marie, you are correct. When I first joined the site I was in the introduction section and reading Kim’s intro, at that point I posted my intro and then realized I had posted in error so I went and created my own intro. Sorry for the confusion it created.

I noticed that. I left it because I thought you might have deleted it yourself after you had created your own intro thread but then I forget that sometimes things are obvious to us because we’re used to them. On any post you create there is a grey X button top right next to the ‘edit’ button. That’s the delete post button. I have removed the post in the ‘Kim’ thread.

trav

Trav, thank you for the tutorial and deleting my erroneous post. I was a bit lost starting out. Still finding my way around and reading oh so much. Thanks again, Dee