I am still fairly confident Zodiac got his symbol from the watch brand, to me that’s too much of a coincidence.
I like the movie connection with the ghost viewers and the Halloween card!
We have a hitch with this theory – the "black zodiac" featuring the symbol is only connected to the 2001 remake of 13 Ghosts and has nothing to do with the original.
Still, I think the parallels between the Halloween card and the ghost viewers, and the slaves in paradise theme of the 1960 film, is too interesting to gloss over. William Castle was famous for including gimmicks with his films and this one was very specific.
It’s a very good theory. The Ghost theme fits with the Halloween card perfectly. The skeleton inside the card is in the position of a flying ghost with the word “Boo” next to him. But the 14th “ghost” could also be the next victim.
At the end of the film the child character, Buck Zorba, wears a mask of Dr Zorba and says "boo!" There’s also a scene where a character wears the ghost viewers and sees the flaming skeleton, which strongly parallels with the Halloween card.
I would like to point out the possible “William Castle” reference here. Then there’s the possible William Pennington reference with the eyes with eyelashes.
Possibly more evidence for Richard Grinell’s "William" theory. http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtop … 239#p69239
Some interesting observations here.
These signs represent twelve earthbound ghosts necessary to gain access to the Ocularis Infernum.
This is also displayed when zodiac speaks of the afterlife. In my opinion this is a very interesting discovery as
it has everything, the symbol, the zodiac signs, the bound woman, the afterlife.
I feel Chroma may well be onto something with Thirteen Ghosts. 12 was always significant number in the Zodiac case, signifying.:
– The 12 astrological signs of the zodiac are each considered to occupy 1/12 (or 30°) of its great circle.
– "cruse [sic] around all weekend killing lone people in the night then move on to kill again, until I end up with a dozen people over the weekend.".
– Diablo clock with cardinal directions (0, 3, 6, 9) implying 12 subdivisions.
Etcetera.
See also RIchard Grinell highlighting the significance of 12 here: The Identity of Twelve
I always though that Zodiac was implying Avery could be no. 14.
Some interesting observations here.
These signs represent twelve earthbound ghosts necessary to gain access to the Ocularis Infernum.
This is also displayed when zodiac speaks of the afterlife. In my opinion this is a very interesting discovery as
it has everything, the symbol, the zodiac signs, the bound woman, the afterlife.I feel Chroma may well be onto something with Thirteen Ghosts. 12 was always significant number in the Zodiac case, signifying.:
– The 12 astrological signs of the zodiac are each considered to occupy 1/12 (or 30°) of its great circle.
– "cruse [sic] around all weekend killing lone people in the night then move on to kill again, until I end up with a dozen people over the weekend.".
– Diablo clock with cardinal directions (0, 3, 6, 9) implying 12 subdivisions.Etcetera.
See also RIchard Grinell highlighting the significance of 12 here: The Identity of Twelve
I always though that Zodiac was implying Avery could be no. 14.
Or, alternatively, a watch with the exact same name and logo (as described by Hartnell), a 3, 6 and 9 and with a key selling feature as having ’17’ gems.
Or, alternatively, a watch with the exact same name and logo (as described by Hartnell), a 3, 6 and 9 and with a key selling feature as having ’17’ gems.
I don’t remember any watch described by Hartnell.
Or, alternatively, a watch with the exact same name and logo (as described by Hartnell), a 3, 6 and 9 and with a key selling feature as having ’17’ gems.
I don’t remember any watch described by Hartnell.
Apologies, ambiguous. Hartnell described the symbol on the hood as being thicker and with the arms coming out of the circle. In other words, similar to the Zodiac watch logo.
That’s because the alchemical symbol for the Zodiac is the same ‘crosshair’ symbol ⨁ . The watch’s brand draws on that.
In the pre-heliocentric model of the universe, the Earth is the centre of the astronomical Zodiac. ⨁ is the Earth symbol. The Zodiac has 4 quadrants and 12 subdivisions.
I’m just trying to explain why the Zodiac watch has a quadrant logo.
That’s because the alchemical symbol for the Zodiac is the same ‘crosshair’ symbol ⨁ . The watch’s brand draws on that.
In the pre-heliocentric model of the universe, the Earth is the centre of the astronomical Zodiac. ⨁ is the Earth symbol. The Zodiac has 4 quadrants and 12 subdivisions.
I’m just trying to explain why the Zodiac watch has a quadrant logo.
Please can you post a link to the ‘alchemical symbol for the Zodiac’. I can’t seem to find one. I’ve seen one example of (there are many) of an earth symbol that has a cross inside a circle (but not actually touching the circle). Looks more like a Philips screwdriver symbol than the Celtic cross type logo on the Zodiac watch.
EDIT: And yes, the Zodiac chart has quadrants and sub-divisions but these all stay within the circle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_symbols
^ see above, it’s just underline the significance of the Zodiac to the killer’s overall concept, and why 12 might crop up a lot, since the OP posited the requirement of 12 ghosts for the afterlife.
The Zodiac is an ancient astronomical and navigational concept (therefore appropriate for a diving watch). The astrological zodiac (i.e. star signs) is derived from the astronomical one, and therefore a secondary signification.
There’s an abbreviated summary here: https://zodiackillerfacts.com/zodiac-le … al-zodiac/
Sorry for the detour.
The watch brand is the most obvious origin for Zodiac’s use of the cross circle symbol.
Though the symbol was erroneously linked to the 1960 13 Ghosts due to its use in the 2001 remake (without meaning to discourage chroma as it’s a generic symbol anyway), it has led to the discovery of a possible link between the 1960 film and the Halloween card in the form of the ghost lenses and the "afterlife slaves" theme.
Another explanation for the orange/red stripe over the skeleton’s eyes is that it’s supposed to be a red mask, as in the Tim Holt persona. But it doesn’t look like a mask. The lenses are a better fit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_symbols
^ see above, it’s just underline the significance of the Zodiac to the killer’s overall concept, and why 12 might crop up a lot, since the OP posited the requirement of 12 ghosts for the afterlife.
The Zodiac is an ancient astronomical and navigational concept (therefore appropriate for a diving watch). The astrological zodiac (i.e. star signs) is derived from the astronomical one, and therefore a secondary signification.
There’s an abbreviated summary here: https://zodiackillerfacts.com/zodiac-le … al-zodiac/
Sorry for the detour.
I get all that but am still lost as to where the symbol that the Zodiac Killer used, directly resembles any symbol uses in the astrological (or astronomical) Zodiac. The Wikipedia link shows the ‘Philips screwdriver’ symbol for earth (that’s a stretch) and the other link shows a Zodiac chart with the perpendicular ‘arms’ accentuated which is not normally the case.
I’m am not an ALA as Zodiac supporter but there is no closer connection to the symbol (in the context of the Zodiac) than the watch brand, ESPECIALLY if you take into account Hartnell’s description of the symbol on the hood.
The watch brand is the most obvious origin for Zodiac’s use of the cross circle symbol.
Though the symbol was erroneously linked to the 1960 13 Ghosts due to its use in the 2001 remake (without meaning to discourage chroma as it’s a generic symbol anyway), it has led to the discovery of a possible link between the 1960 film and the Halloween card in the form of the ghost lenses and the "afterlife slaves" theme.
Another explanation for the orange/red stripe over the skeleton’s eyes is that it’s supposed to be a red mask, as in the Tim Holt persona. But it doesn’t look like a mask. The lenses are a better fit.
Yes, this is all very interesting stuff and worthy of discussion.
Sorry if this is slightly off topic, this doesn’t have so much to do with ghosts.
Yeah Luke68, I should probably explain a little further as my statements might be somewhat opaque. I was taught to navigate using a watch, compass and map by my uncle, who is a professional yachtsman. You can triangulate your position at sea using the sun, out of sight of any land with a high degree of accuracy. Therefore celestial navigation (historically based on the astronomical Zodiac) is highly dependent on accurate time-keeping (see marine chronometers). The Zodiac watch is just branding based on this association. The selling point of marine wristwatches like the Zodiac Sea Wolf is that they are accurate within a few seconds per year. It’s really just clever marketing really.
To further underline the significance of 12, there are 12 hours in a day and twelve houses of the Zodiac, correlating to 12 months of the year. Sorry if that is super-obvious, but it was just interesting to me that, early-on Zodiac threatened to go on the rampage, adding that a dozen victims would satisfy his need for slaves. If you see his later communications he draws his Zodiac ‘crosshair’ symbol with the victims checked off (marked with an ‘x’) at various clock positions, seemingly counting round the clock.
If it’s not clear enough ⨁ literally means ‘Zodiac’. All of these resemblances aren’t arbitrary, they’re meaningful because they’re linked to real world practices.
EDIT: I see Jacob is pointing out that Chroma confused elements from the more recent film. However, I do think the stuff about the viewer is still noteworthy.
