Here’s a scenario – What if LE does have DNA but have no matches to any genealogy or criminal data bases – What then? Do they stay quiet so as to not alert Z (if still alive) as they continue to investigate? How long until we the public have FOI rights to this info? Surely there must come a time when the chances of Z being alive has transpired and evidence could be placed in the public domain. Doesnt DNA give basic info like sex, hair and skin colour? I think every suspect should be investigated and if possible ruled out. It would make our work here much easier. Personally I would be ecstatic just to know they have a positive sample from at least two matching sources. I could easily rule out my POI with the basics.

Quick,

You have been around for a while IIRC.
Haven’t you ever noticed all the discussion
of Alan Keel saying that in his opinion
due to the virtual absence of saliva on
the letters it would not be unfair to
say they were sealed with, and the stamps
applied with, water?

Why all this talk to this day about Z licking his letters?
This is talk from 2006.

Mike

Belief of who wrote the letters aside….Cells were found.

The Exorcist Letter
The Kathleen Johns letter
Crackproof/The Pace isn’t any slower card

…and "few cells" on many others.

Maybe what was found came from dead skin when he applied the stamps, or it’s degradation of DNA, but cells were found. I do think Zodiac would be smart enough not to lick them–he would have at least know that, but who the heck knows…

Have comparisons been made with the Bates, and acknowledged Zodiac murders? And, is Riverside Police Department cooperating with other agencies in this manner?

Sure I’d say but will they never comment on such issue to not later see Z walk out from court as a free man..

QT

Sure I’d say but will they never comment on such issue to not later see Z walk out from court as a free man..

QT

This is something that concerns me. They charge him but his lawyers successfully argue the DNA evidence is too limited to allow for a fair conviction.

Unless he is linked to a crime where the DNA evidence is more reliable.

Cells were found but they sure aren’t yielding DNA very readily. Saliva is another story. I’ve always said that IF there is ZNA on the letters it may be because he did not wear gloves when applying them after using a sponge to wet them.

Mike

Cells were found but they sure aren’t yielding DNA very readily. Saliva is another story. I’ve always said that IF there is ZNA on the letters it may be because he did not wear gloves when applying them after using a sponge to wet them.

Mike

ZNA…. Why have I not seen this before…

The idea that Zodiac was aware of leaving DNA trace evidence in the early 1970’s and took steps to hide his DNA is preposterous. DNA profiling did not become a thing until the 1980s and wasn’t well known publicly until the 1990’s.

Also, the idea that this guy was some kind of master criminal playing 4 dimensional chess falls apart when one considers that he left fingerprint evidence at 3 (and probably more) crime scenes. He knows to cover his DNA tracks a decade before the technology came out, but still left fingerprints everywhere?

Again, preposterous.

DNA is not a monolithic thing. The Bates DNA, according the what I’ve seen, is mitochondrial. Typical forensic DNA kits only test for a certain number of STRs on a certain number of loci. That number has changed over the development of the forensic testing process. Newer methods such as post-PCR purification techniques make it possible to sequence a forensic profile from as few as 1 cell. The source of that cell is completely irrelevant (with one exception). One epitheleal cell sloughed from a fingertip will produce the exact same DNA profile as one epitheleal cell cast off in a saliva suspension.

If my memory is correct, forensic DNA was first used in court in 1987 in England. Regardless of the exact date, its development began much earlier than that. I believe one of the articles I read several years ago had a 1961 or 1962 quote from Watson and/or Crick that suggested individualization of DNA profiles would be possible in the future.

I don’t know whether Zodiac was a criminal mastermind, genius-level person. But, if he was educated in or worked in the right field(s) much of this advanced scientific knowledge would’ve been available to him. Heck, even the people who empty the trash in my office know what some legal terms mean because they hear us talking about it. Knowledge that DNA is in every human cell and DNA can one day be individualized is far different than fully understanding the process. It’s not completely strange to envision a Zodiac who knew enough to avoid giving cells to law enforcement. The likelihood goes up a bit when we consider the medical connections to some of the ancillary victims (i.e., Bates died a block away from a hospital, Lass was a nurse, Bennelack was a nurse). Further, my suspicion has always been that Stine’s murderer walked straight to work at the Letterman Army Hospital after the murder, clocking in for his normal shift at 11 p.m.

Zodiac was smart but not necessarily a genius. He probably worked in a field that allowed him to be aware of the danger. Then he got lucky that the various forensic techniques employed produced such different profiles that the results can’t be compared against the other murders’ results. He was smart enough to be prepared but lucky enough that the mistakes his made haven’t been used against him–yet.

For those who know about my POI, an update: he recently admitted to handling the bodies of the canonical Zodiac murder victims after their demise. I continue to search for ways to press him more.

I mean, I GUESS that anything is possible, but it remains VERY HIGHLY unlikely that Zodiac had any knowledge and made efforts to avoid leaving DNA trace evidence in the early 1970s.

Agreed. If he had those concerns, why risk writing letters.

I was kindly reminded in a private message that I meant Judith Hakari was a nurse–not Nancy Bennalack. That was a mistake made in my haste to get the info onto the message board quickly. Sorry.

Come on peeps. One didn’t have to know about DNA to avoid licking stamps and envelopes in 1969. How
many times do I have to say that all he had to know is that there was saliva testing for blood type and even medications at the time.