In Bonus Fides, Subject: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:55 pm

A POI has posted the following on a cipher/cryptology forum( and elsewhere).

I am , admittedly, not great at Ciphers/Puzzles and wondered if anyone can look and see if it is jibberish or something to look at.

I believe it is multi-alphabetic substitution cipher with letters only ( no symbols).

It reads as such and is all capital letters;

GHUOORYHIIEEIYHIIXAHOJHOHAOOPHUHTHONHIYHIEEIHYHITHIIJHYHI

I believe it may start with " AT INN. GUTTRRS……." before the shift of alphabetic substitution begins.

The heading/ "handle" is " PARADICE SLAVES" which may be a key of sorts???

IBF

In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:01 pm

I have been applying the Vallejo PD Annonymous Key ( 1969) to this, sans symbols, and have found some interesting words to start with;

" At /the/ Inn/ Guttr/ to(2?)/ toward/ the……."

Then it becomes Gibberish as I , obviously, am not shifting properly based on an unknown key word.

Anyone ‘s help would be greatly appreciated!!!

IBF

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:54 pm

I have been applying the Vallejo PD Annonymous Key ( 1969) to this, sans symbols, and have found some interesting words to start with;

" At /the/ Inn/ Guttr/ to(2?)/ toward/ the……."

Then it becomes Gibberish as I , obviously, am not shifting properly based on an unknown key word.

Anyone ‘s help would be greatly appreciated!!!

IBF

via 408 KEY:

AT INN GUTT TEE TUTT TO WTNFTNTWNNITITOTN E/T [DOUBLE VALUE FOR n] TTUTTEETTUTTOTTTFTUTT

Sounds like he took a train..

-Nin

In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:11 pm

Nin,

Hahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!LOL!

What about trying it with the key " Paradice Slaves" with a 0, 3, 6, 9 ceaser shift???

Don’t have the skills but hoping someone can exhaust all options other than gibberish.

IBF

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:20 pm

Nin,

Hahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!LOL!

What about trying it with the key " Paradice Slaves" with a 0, 3, 6, 9 ceaser shift???

Don’t have the skills but hoping someone can exhaust all options other than gibberish.

IBF

ceasar shift creates gibberish too.

However, paradiceslaves 25 shift sounds similar to mynameiszodiac 0 shift:

NOWTTDZOFFHHFZOFFYCOTPOTOCTTBOWOVOTSOFZOFHHFOZOFVOFFPOZOF

NOWIIUBOFFEEFBOFFZDOIPOIODIISOWOVOICOFBOFEEFOBOFVOFFPOBOF

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:21 pm

We need Mr Oranchak.. :bom: PLEASE

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:22 pm

We need Mr Oranchak.. :bom: PLEASE

-Nin

pretty please

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:31 pm

Nin,

Hahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!LOL!

What about trying it with the key " Paradice Slaves" with a 0, 3, 6, 9 ceaser shift???

Don’t have the skills but hoping someone can exhaust all options other than gibberish.

IBF

ceasar shift creates gibberish too.

However, paradiceslaves 25 shift sounds similar to mynameiszodiac 0 shift:

NOWTTDZOFFHHFZOFFYCOTPOTOCTTBOWOVOTSOFZOFHHFOZOFVOFFPOZOF

NOWIIUBOFFEEFBOFFZDOIPOIODIISOWOVOICOFBOFEEFOBOFVOFFPOBOF

Forgot to mention, the shifts above were created with thye original ciphertext, not the 408 encoded version.

-Nin

In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:36 pm

What about Z= 37 as he claimed in several correspondences??

IBF

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:46 pm

ceasar shift creates gibberish too.

However, paradiceslaves 25 shift sounds similar to mynameiszodiac 0 shift:

NOWTTDZOFFHHFZOFFYCOTPOTOCTTBOWOVOTSOFZOFHHFOZOFVOFFPOZOF

NOWIIUBOFFEEFBOFFZDOIPOIODIISOWOVOICOFBOFEEFOBOFVOFFPOBOF

slavesparadice:
N O W T T H Z O J J F F J Z O J J Y D O T P O T O D T T G O W O V O T S O J Z O J F F J O Z O J V O J J P O Z O J

reverse alphabet, reverse passphrase etc. creates gibberish.

There are just so many repeats in the ciphertext. Looks almost like numbers to me.

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:52 pm

What about Z= 37 as he claimed in several correspondences??

IBF

With N as E and 37 as DH , gronsfeld:

ASIMNFUSTSECTTTSTNWSNETMTVNMISISOSN C TSUSTCESTTTSOSTSFSUST

With N as T and 37 as DH, gronsfeld:

ASIMNFUSTSECTTTSTNWSNETMTVNMISISOSN S TSUSTCESTTTSOSTSFSUST

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:55 pm

keyed vignere, DH, original ciphertext

G D U N O Q Y D I G E C I X H G I W A D O I H N H H O N P D U D T D O M H G Y D I C E G H X H G T D I G J D Y D I

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:59 pm

Paradiceslaves E
AQ RMJ LMJH GCX JJTQ ON QMGCHVQHFBIQRQKMG P HGTFJZEQOTNMHJHGBFKHT

Paradiceslaves T
AQ RMJ LMJH GCX JJTQ ON QMGCHVQHFBIQRQKMG J HGTFJZEQOTNMHJHGBFKHT

Dh
AS IMN FUST SEC TTTS TN WSNETMTVNMISISOSN S TSUSTCESTTTSOSTSFSUST

Now let’s have fun and add some passphrases..We really need Mr Oranchak.. :cheers:

-Nin

In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:03 pm

Wow….cool to see cryptographers and cipher-text analysists at work!!!!

Other important numbers/text to this POI are 10/14/1941, Zoa, Michael D Brown ( as solution to My Name Is_______ Cipher???) and maybe this???

zodio, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:10 am

Not much of a cypher sleuth at all but it kind of looks similar to some code writing from school where you remove the double letters and repeats and you have the message. Just a thought.

doranchak, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:52 am

Thanks for your faith in me but this one’s got me stumped at the moment. I’ll ask the other cipher sleuths about it.

As already pointed out, it’s not a normal Caesar shifted cipher. It also does not appear to be a Vigenère cipher. And the distribution of cipher letters doesn’t seem to indicate normal substitution, because the H and I occur too often. And there are only 14 unique cipher letters – seems like there should be more than that.

Click here to see the cipher in CryptoScope. Maybe you’ll see something I missed.

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:19 am

Thanks for your faith in me but this one’s got me stumped at the moment. I’ll ask the other cipher sleuths about it.

As already pointed out, it’s not a normal Caesar shifted cipher. It also does not appear to be a Vigenère cipher. And the distribution of cipher letters doesn’t seem to indicate normal substitution, because the H and I occur too often. And there are only 14 unique cipher letters – seems like there should be more than that.

Click here to see the cipher in CryptoScope. Maybe you’ll see something I missed.

First thing I did was running it through your program. If we had 56 characters I had tried bienary. But with 57, nope. Thanks for helping us, sir. Yes, I always have faith in you.

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:48 am

If someone else wants to play with the bienary. I omitted the first character or the last and so on and reversed the 1 and 0, so 4 variations per text. Comes out gibberish numbers and characters:

GHUOORYHIIEEIYHIIXAHOJHOHAOOPHUHTHONHIYHIEEIHYHITHIIJHYHI

1100 0111 0000 0110 0101 0110 1000 1101 1101 1011 0000 1110 1100 1111 0
1 1000 1110 0000 1100 1010 1101 0001 1011 1011 0110 0001 1101 1001 1110

0011 1000 1111 1001 1010 1001 0111 0010 0010 0100 1111 0001 0011 0000 1
0 0111 0001 1111 0011 0101 0010 1110 0100 0100 1001 1110 0010 0110 0001

ATINNGUTTTEETUTTTOWTNFTNTWNNITITOTN E TTUTTEETTUTTOTTTFTUTT

0101 1101 1100 1011 1011 1111 1111 0101 0110 1101 1001 1011 0111 1101 1
1010 0010 0011 0100 0100 0000 0000 1010 1001 0010 0110 0100 0111 0010 0

0 1011 1011 1001 0111 0111 1111 1110 1010 1101 1011 0011 0110 1111 1011
1 0100 0100 0110 1000 1000 0000 0001 0101 0010 0100 1100 1001 0000 0100

ATINNGUTTTEETUTTTOWTNFTNTWNNITITOTN T TTUTTEETTUTTOTTTFTUTT

1010 0010 0011 0100 0100 0000 0000 1010 1000 0010 0110 0100 1000 0010 0
0101 1101 1100 1011 1011 1111 1111 0101 0111 1101 1001 1011 0111 1101 1

1 0100 0100 0110 1000 1000 0000 0001 0101 0000 0100 1100 1001 0000 0100
0 1011 1011 1001 0111 0111 1111 1110 1010 1111 1011 0011 0110 1111 1011

Theforeigner, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:18 am

Could this eb a clue to the cipher in question?

22 Jan 2003 Michael D Brown posted this message.
At the end of the message he says:

"Later examination revealed a tiny
scrap of paper. Typed on it was:
"An Algorithmic Solution of Sequential Homophonic Ciphers".

http://www.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/sci … /0890.html

From: michaeldbrown@hotmail.com (Michael)
Date: 22 Jan 2003 14:13:50 -0800

In early 2000 I came upon a partially burnt satchel in a location I
shouldn’t identify. There were over 300 pages of script of what I came
to learn later is cryptography. Only two thoughts crossed my mind: the
guy was nuts and he has the same name as myself "michaelbrown". Not
able to make anything of value from the find I left it there. In July
2000 while perusing the new releases at the State Library I came upon
"Encyclopedia of Serial Killers". I checked it out. When I came to the
sample of cryptography the zodiackiller used my memory began to
stir…"where have i seen something like this? Oh yeah….." So I
returned for a sample. Within 15 minutes I knew it deserved
examination. So I turned it in. Later examination revealed a tiny
scrap of paper. Typed on it was:
"An Algorithmic Solution of Sequential Homophonic Ciphers". Using a
search engine I found the names JohncKing&DavidBahler. I e’d them both
asking if they’d ever considered if the ZodiacKiller had ever
contacted them. I had no idea if either of them had even heard of the
ZodiacKiller. The solution to the ZodiacMurders is far more
fascinating than the mystery itself. It is going to blow your mind.
PeaceSundardas

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:42 am

..
Click here to see the cipher in CryptoScope. Maybe you’ll see something I missed.

A E G H I J N O P R T U X Y being the unique characters used, 14 of them, leaves out B C D F K L M Q S V W Z, 12 of them, could be part of a keyphrase. But then the keyphrase would be much longer including repeats and so on. While not impossible, I’d say it’s rather improbable. So I am skipping this possibility.

These are the unique characters in the ciphertext and 408 encoded:

AEGHIJNOPRTUXY

encoded in 408:

WEATTFENIGOIOU

or ( double N-E/T value)

WEATTFTNIGOIOU

Looks more workable, doesn’t it

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:57 am

Could this eb a clue to the cipher in question?

22 Jan 2003 Michael D Brown posted this message.
At the end of the message he says:

"Later examination revealed a tiny
scrap of paper. Typed on it was:
"An Algorithmic Solution of Sequential Homophonic Ciphers".

http://www.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/sci … /0890.html

From: michaeldbrown@hotmail.com (Michael)
Date: 22 Jan 2003 14:13:50 -0800

In early 2000 I came upon a partially burnt satchel in a location I
shouldn’t identify. There were over 300 pages of script of what I came
to learn later is cryptography. Only two thoughts crossed my mind: the
guy was nuts and he has the same name as myself "michaelbrown". Not
able to make anything of value from the find I left it there. In July
2000 while perusing the new releases at the State Library I came upon
"Encyclopedia of Serial Killers". I checked it out. When I came to the
sample of cryptography the zodiackiller used my memory began to
stir…"where have i seen something like this? Oh yeah….." So I
returned for a sample. Within 15 minutes I knew it deserved
examination. So I turned it in. Later examination revealed a tiny
scrap of paper. Typed on it was:
"An Algorithmic Solution of Sequential Homophonic Ciphers". Using a
search engine I found the names JohncKing&DavidBahler. I e’d them both
asking if they’d ever considered if the ZodiacKiller had ever
contacted them. I had no idea if either of them had even heard of the
ZodiacKiller. The solution to the ZodiacMurders is far more
fascinating than the mystery itself. It is going to blow your mind.
PeaceSundardas

Not really. I doubt the cipher in question is long enough for an algotithmic detection. Also, zodiac "messed up" when creating the 408 in so far as he started to pull the characters in sequence and then he kinda grabbed randomly. I just cannot anticipate the 340 being nice and neat knowing what a slob he was in the previous cipher. Therefore I do not believe the 340 can be solved by logarithmic detection, and it hasn’t been! And therefore this is no hint for the cipher in question. Whoever created this either knows more about ciphers or nothing. There we go again..

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:10 am

TF,

the only "clue" I can see is what we have been doing here anyway. Eliminating the doubles (although these are not homophonic values, at least not that we know at this time), reducing to unique characters. But then we also are encoding in 408 which seems to give us a better base to work with (we get repeats due to the nature of the multiple values using the 408 encoding after the fact) .

If I apply the same concept like we have been utilizing I am further reducing the charactes I get:

WEATTFENIGOIOU

WEATTFTNIGOIOU

Since the double value of N E/T is part of repeats, we get the same result in either combination:

WE AT FNI GO U

FNI?

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:46 am

Another possibility is that we are dealing with an enciphered alliteration or alliterated verse. Something like A feir feld full of folk for example. An alliteration which is a figure of speech would go along with all these repeats. Sine the poster is posting on a GERMAN sounding MB, DER KEILER ( "DER" is "the", "KEILER" is "wild boar" in German) Iam also considering it being someting in German. It does not have to be, but I am including the possibility.

In German the letter frequency is different compared to the English language. Instead of ETAONIS as most frequent English letters we get ENIRSAT as most frequent German letters:

English

E 12.4% H 6.5% U 2.7% G 2.0% K 0.7%
T 8.9% S 6.2% M 2.5% Y 2.0% Q 0.1%
A 8.0% R 6.1% W 2.3% P 1.6% X 0.1%
O 7.6% D 4.6% C 2.2% B 1.3% J 0.1%
N 7.0% L 3.6% F 2.2% V 0.8% Z 0.0%
I 6.7%

German

E 18.0% T 5.7% G 3.2% F 1.6% P 0.8%
N 10.6% D 5.4% O 2.7% W 1.5% J 0.3%
I 8.1% U 4.6% C 2.7% K 1.3% Y 0.0%
R 7.2% H 4.1% M 2.3% Z 1.1% X 0.0%
S 6.9% L 3.3% B 1.7% V 0.9% Q 0.0%
A 6.0%

Good thing I speak German..Die klitze kleine kotzende Katze kotzt klitze kleine Katzenklötzchen, klitze kleine Katzenklötzchen kotzt die klitze kleine kotzende Katze…hahahahaha!!!

In Bonus Fides, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:56 pm

Wow, Great work cipher-sleuths and thanks for taking this on!!

I can’t really reveal WHY this may be a clue because it touches on someone living’s work but I have a feeling that the "work" in question is something of a possible "inspiration" to MDB and it touches on another potential POI of mine.

As a key try:

ETAONI SHRDLU

This is something ( to the best of my non-MENSA understanding) that is based on mathematics and Zodiac planet locations.

It may yield something on this or the 340 but it may be more gibberish.

IBF

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:30 pm

Wow, Great work cipher-sleuths and thanks for taking this on!!

I can’t really reveal WHY this may be a clue because it touches on someone living’s work but I have a feeling that the "work" in question is something of a possible "inspiration" to MDB and it touches on another potential POI of mine.

As a key try:

ETAONI SHRDLU

This is something ( to the best of my non-MENSA understanding) that is based on mathematics and Zodiac planet locations.

It may yield something on this or the 340 but it may be more gibberish.

IBF

You mean ETAOIN SHRDLU not ETAONI SHRDLU, correct?

-Nin

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:33 pm

Herb Caen claimed that the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper was nicknamed the Etaoin Shrdlu because of its questionable production standards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETAOIN_SHRDLU

-Nin

StitchMallone, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:58 pm

Thanks Nin for the education and now I want to play the video game Castle of Dr. Brain. Sounds like a great game.

Nin, Subject: Re: "Cipher" Help Needed   Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:12 pm

Thanks Nin for the education and now I want to play the video game Castle of Dr. Brain. Sounds like a great game.

Hahahahaha!!!