So how would you interpret those results?
At first sight it looks fairly normal to me.
Thanks for the info Largo. A little too advanced for me but the statistical analysis of these ciphers is very interesting. The question becomes how do these analyses translate into a partial way to solve for the professional and unprofessional alike.
You are a physician. Imagine having a patient with lots of vague symptoms, though none of these symptoms seem to correlate, and whatever treatment you subscribe, nothing seems to work. Welcome to the 340.
There is good statistical support to believe that the 340 is some kind of period 19 transposition cipher, though so far all our efforts in that direction have been in vain.
Well, the vast majority of the time people who have multiple chronic non specific symptoms don’t have anything wrong with them at all. Maybe this is true of the 340. There’s nothing there. But you keep trying 
Well, the vast majority of the time people who have multiple chronic non specific symptoms don’t have anything wrong with them at all.
Does that not imply that at least something has to be wrong? If not at the very least a lie to stay home from work? I think that for these people, too much stress of some kind or kinds is causing their body the responds in various ways. And that medical science is just starting to understand some of these issues.
Thanks for the info Largo. A little too advanced for me but the statistical analysis of these ciphers is very interesting. The question becomes how do these analyses translate into a partial way to solve for the professional and unprofessional alike.
I am of the opinion that there is no professional and unprofessional, only passion. Any observation can lead to a solution. Maybe normal and reversed letters represents two different keys for example…
Sometimes you can’t see the forest for the trees and focus too much on statistics. Remember, man-years of work have been put into z340 without a solution. It is not said that pages of mathematical statistics lead to the solution. Perhaps at some point it will be a clever discovery that everyone has so far overlooked and that will lead to the goal.
(The posted link contains both: mathematical statistics and straight observations.)
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator
Not necessarily, complaints/symptoms don’t always correlate with pathology, psychological or otherwise. Medicine has limited diagnostic and therapeutic benefit in someone who is lying.
…as does code breaking in someone who’s lying.
Speaking of lying, I wonder if anyone has ever looked at zodiac’s writings from the perspective of statement analysis. That is, to determine that which he is saying is likely true, and that which he is saying is likely untrue. A great book I read is "I Know You are Lying" by Mark McClish. I’d be interested to see if anyone has reached out to him to analyze the zodiac letters, and how this applies to his ciphers. Maybe this should be posted in a different thread.
By the way, what is a period 19 transposition cipher?
…as does code breaking in someone who’s lying.
Speaking of lying, I wonder if anyone has ever looked at zodiac’s writings from the perspective of statement analysis. That is, to determine that which he is saying is likely true, and that which he is saying is likely untrue. A great book I read is "I Know You are Lying" by Mark McClish. I’d be interested to see if anyone has reached out to him to analyze the zodiac letters, and how this applies to his ciphers. Maybe this should be posted in a different thread.
By the way, what is a period 19 transposition cipher?
Don’t know but there is a 16 episode letter analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5ME86R-m8I
Period 19 can be seen as a knight’s move in a 17 by 20 grid:
Or as simple columnar transposition in a 19 by 18 grid. Format the cipher into 19 columns and then read off the cipher by columns.
HER>pl^VPk|1LTG2dNp +B(#O%DWY.<*Kf)By:c M+UZGW()L#zHJSpp7^l 8*V3pO++RK2_9M+ztjd |5FP+&4k/p8R^FlO-*d CkF>2D(#5+Kq%;2UcXG V.zL|(G2Jfj#O+_NYz+ @L9d<M+b+ZR2FBcyA64 K-zlUV+^J+Op7<FBy-U +R/5tE|DYBpbTMKO2<c lRJ|*5T4M.+&BFz69Sy #+N|5FBc(;8RlGFN^f5 24b.cV4t++yBX1*:49C E>VUZ5-+|c.3zBK(Op^ .fMqG2RcT+L16C<+FlW B|)L++)WCzWcPOSHT/( )p|FkdW<7tB_YOB*-Cc >MDHNpkSzZO8A|K;+
Gives:
H+M8|CV@K+l#2E.B)> etc...
That seems impossible.
Period 19 is significant because of bigram repeats. Language is repetitive and will create allot of double letters that repeat. That is measurable even with homophonic substitution on top. If the 340 is like the 408 then it should have about 45 bigram repeats in the horizontal direction (that is period 1) yet there are only 25 bigram repeats. Not much higher than what is expected of say a hoax or transposed ciphertext. The 340 has 37 period 19 bigram repeats.
Periodic: (transposition, untransposition) -------------------------------------------------------- Period 1: 25, 25 Period 2: 16, 21 Period 3: 21, 25 Period 4: 28, 26 Period 5: 19, 30 Period 6: 22, 21 Period 7: 20, 19 Period 8: 19, 17 Period 9: 20, 19 Period 10: 27, 25 Period 11: 17, 15 Period 12: 22, 15 Period 13: 14, 17 Period 14: 23, 17 Period 15: 15, 21 Period 16: 21, 27 Period 17: 18, 23 Period 18: 35, 18 <--- Period 19: 20, 37 <--- Period 20: 23, 18 Period 21: 26, 26 Period 22: 21, 18 Period 23: 23, 19 Period 24: 15, 21 Period 25: 22, 22 Period 26: 18, 18 Period 27: 25, 25 Period 28: 18, 27 Period 29: 23, 27 Period 30: 21, 24 Period 31: 15, 17 Period 32: 12, 23 Period 33: 17, 21 Period 34: 25, 27 Period 35: 20, 23 Period 36: 18, 21 Period 37: 20, 16 Period 38: 21, 24 Period 39: 23, 29 Period 40: 23, 14 Period 41: 19, 17 Period 42: 19, 20 Period 43: 18, 21 Period 44: 16, 24 Period 45: 19, 26 Period 46: 22, 22 Period 47: 24, 20 Period 48: 17, 21 Period 49: 20, 18 Period 50: 21, 18 Period 51: 23, 21 Period 52: 25, 20 Period 53: 25, 22 Period 54: 25, 29 Period 55: 19, 21 Period 56: 20, 25 Period 57: 20, 23 Period 58: 19, 17 Period 59: 18, 13 Period 60: 18, 21 Period 61: 16, 25 Period 62: 18, 27 Period 63: 17, 21 Period 64: 20, 22 Period 65: 22, 30 Period 66: 26, 24 Period 67: 27, 14 Period 68: 30, 19 Period 69: 31, 21 Period 70: 31, 23 Period 71: 31, 15 Period 72: 30, 17 Period 73: 30, 21 Period 74: 29, 30 Period 75: 29, 22 Period 76: 30, 20 Period 77: 31, 18 Period 78: 31, 19 Period 79: 28, 9 Period 80: 23, 22 Period 81: 19, 23 Period 82: 21, 29 Period 83: 24, 23 Period 84: 25, 19 Period 85: 26, 28 Period 86: 25, 22 Period 87: 23, 12 Period 88: 24, 18 Period 89: 22, 15 Period 90: 22, 19 Period 91: 20, 19 Period 92: 21, 20 Period 93: 21, 15 Period 94: 21, 22 Period 95: 19, 19 Period 96: 19, 20 Period 97: 21, 25 Period 98: 23, 22 Period 99: 24, 12 Period 100: 26, 14
Don’t you think it would be unusual for someone to know how to construct a complicated cipher like this?
Can anyone show me the 340 solved for the 408 key?
Don’t you think it would be unusual for someone to know how to construct a complicated cipher like this?
Any book or manual on classic cryptography will have sections devoted to transposition, there is nothing special about it.
Can anyone show me the 340 solved for the 408 key?
Generated with Largo’s program, Peek-a-boo:
TEGILKIBIPTETOACE ELELOMNNNEUSRTSHY LLDAHEIEAEOYTMSTF ALLOIKATBDLNEEGSC RRHESN?ET?SIE??P? LAGISKN?TEVPSICNO M?ESFN?CIAOABSSTT OACFH?MNEREUSE?TR ERHE?EEGCSLALW??S ?SKIBEIFENLORSLL? IEG??NETNULL?OHSN CRAKGFTT?O?HSE?LS S?RALMEET?SLAO?AG KASEIH?C??SAB?NEE LLOETD?RVEIBIE??E TASDSLSONLISHHFAC GAOETE?VRESKELTYT EEYEVSEAINATO?OYL TSPEERONLRUNLT?VA IHNTELPASENAWTS?E
Don’t you think it would be unusual for someone to know how to construct a complicated cipher like this?
Any book or manual on classic cryptography will have sections devoted to transposition, there is nothing special about it.
I understand that there were books available at that time for someone to read and learn about cryptography. I suppose my thinking at the time was what’s the more likely scenario, that someone checked out a book on ciphers 50 years ago and created one (correctly) that has baffled people for half a century, or, that there is no cipher. Especially if there is nothing "special" about it. I know there are statistics that suggest a message is there.
With any of the decrypt apps are you able to put in a keyword for a columnar transposition cipher using the "solved" 340 using the solved 340 with the 408 key as plaintext? Is this what you showed me initially? I’m not sure I’m saying this correctly. It’s difficult to talk about this through messaging, I wish some of us could sit down and hash some of this out.
I don’t know how you guys do this. It’s maddening. I’m sitting up at night thinking about this stuff and can’t sleep. It’s a little addicting. I have to watch that…
