I also wonder if these wildcard symbols are then the cause of the disrupted cycles. And if we can fashion together some sort of test for this. That could prove a big step forward.
I have a simple, easy test in mind to detect the presence of polyalphabetic symbols, but not to identify which exact symbols are polyalphabetic. It wouldn’t be conclusive, and would only show possible circumstantial evidence of polyalphabetism. I have been thinking about it for several weeks, but haven’t done it yet.
The last transposition message that you made, the diagonal transcription message with the astronomy space theme. When I solved it with AZD on progressive mode, I noticed that the program sort of locked in on a score and couldn’t improve on it much. The untransposition wasn’t perfect because I untransposed it as if the transcription was horizontal or vertical, bu the scores didn’t vary much.
My idea for a test is to make a message and untranspose it imperfectly, but good enough to get some contextual words and recognize it as a true message. Solve it on progressive mode maybe 30 times and graph the scores. Then slowly increase the amount of polyalphabetism. Make one symbol high count poly. Untranspose imperfectly, solve 30 times, and graph. Make another symbol high count poly. Repeat. Compare graphs for variance. We will probably have a tight grouping of solve scores for the first message, and wider grouping for the later messages.
I guess that a transcription skip or null would also cause scores to vary, since all of the symbols adjacent to a misalignment line essentially become polyalphabetic. The experiment may not tell us everything that we would want to know, but it would be simple and easy to do. Not much work. It is on my to do list.
I was also starting to think about the cycles again.
AZdecrypt 0.992 (Practical Cryptography 5-grams) External, Index of coincidence
Score: 23902.14 Ioc: 0.06413326 Entropy: 4.114048 Chi-square: 57.28067 Characters: 340 Letters: 22
ferengirulesofacq
uisitiononceyouha
vetheirmaneynever
giveitbacwneverpa
ymoreforanacquisi
tionthanyouhaveto
neverallarfamilyt
ostandinthewayofo
pportunityamaniso
nlyrarththesumofh
ispossessionsweep
yourearsopensmall
printleadstalarge
risropportunitypl
usinstinctequalsp
rofitgreedisetern
alanythingworthdo
ingisrarthdoingfo
rmoneyadealisadea
luntilabetteronecMultiplicity: 0.1882353 Characters: 340 Symbols: 64
Jarlvie was the above one of your test ciphers
That is plaintext p100. I don’t know/remember if it was a cipher by me.
Mr. Lowe, can you post the cipher itself? Maybe I can find it somewhere.
I re-combined enough of the repeats to get a "decent" solve score and a lot of long words and sentence fragments.
Yes, well done. I was not intending to use the p1 plaintext, it was by accident.
Here’s another diagonal one with a fresh plaintext:
pr1_jarlve4.txt 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 21 32 33 34 35 6 36 30 37 38 4 5 39 8 16 17 40 1 41 14 34 9 13 36 3 42 11 31 43 33 12 20 2 23 7 32 10 35 6 26 40 19 37 44 12 45 1 3 39 17 46 24 36 43 22 30 25 40 42 4 13 38 18 31 47 2 48 23 7 28 37 15 39 17 21 44 9 10 33 5 24 16 25 26 20 34 4 35 29 48 2 1 7 5 23 32 37 8 6 45 18 11 10 47 46 39 15 41 44 13 24 22 25 28 31 33 11 16 45 2 17 35 27 22 14 30 43 41 7 23 18 37 20 26 49 39 19 32 41 48 4 10 26 1 5 38 27 29 14 17 13 47 6 9 31 23 12 16 30 37 44 18 32 28 33 39 44 24 19 35 3 27 1 18 15 29 11 47 29 13 46 25 8 17 43 2 14 20 47 6 31 33 30 9 46 50 32 4 22 7 10 34 5 21 6 15 21 35 9 28 24 11 22 43 23 8 38 19 44 25 1 13 28 27 37 12 34 45 39 11 38 2 42 31 36 34 18 46 41 30 33 29 38 17 32 34 44 47 48 16 35 38 6 22 40 15 21 45 1 48 9 28 11 7 20 49 4 34 15 12 13 14 19 10 18 38 31 5 12 30 43 33 32 27 24 23 25 16 22 46 6 48 30 14 3 2 32 37 28 12 39 11 17 7 20 35 9 29 1
I decided to mess around with pr1_jarlve4.txt today, and compare with the 340 mirrored horizontally. I haven’t worked out the exact inscription – transcription method, but wanted to start with those skills just in case we get a decent solve for the 340. On the left is the period analysis for the 340, and on the right, pr1_jarlve4.txt. Notice that for pr1_jarlve4.txt, there are 10 period 210 matches, a high number that reaches far down into the spreadsheet. For the 340, there aren’t any high numbers reaching down so far.
So I untransposed very simply by re-drafting in 16 columns to make the period 16 matches line up vertically. Then I rotated the message 90 degrees, and re-drafted into 17 x 20.
And I got a decent solve with a lot of long words:
Score: 21340 Ioc: 685 M: 147 C: 340 S: 50 erterranworldshof spaceadevacuatedi tscalledthmilitar ypersoetoprulussn elabandoniectonth etengthecolonyrna scolonitobetorsap pedworldofmartbyt hesansarawasatawa rmeanscriticalfun cthalfierunetheal ienperaysorfgahiv emindbestooinedsd evouringallliffon cfehadisfestedtha nesweplanetandthe cofroitnfederacyt hegoveearhernment overseeithinangea nsaraandothregion
The inscription rectangle is probably about 21 x 16. I don’t have anything filled in yet.
But you said that it was diagonal, and I will work on that. On the left is the 340, and on the right is pr1_jarvle4.txt. They are the period x matches. The 340 has many, many more high scoring period 1 matches than pr1_jarlve4.txt. The higher scores may have something to do with the fact that pr1_jarlve4.txt has only 50 symbols. See red boxes. But I figure that if transcription is diagonal, there might be wrap around, meaning that when coming to the bottom of the rectangle, you may have started at the top directly above instead of on the left or right margin. That is because there are only about 64 symbols before the first diagonal lines start to appear. See blue oval. I am guessing that if diagonal transcription continued from top or bottom margin to left or right margin, then the diagonals wouldn’t appear near the top of the 17 x 20 message, and it would have been more difficult to make so many period 16 matches.
There are a lot of contextual or long words, like world, space, evacuated, military, abandon, colony, critical, devouring, planet and region. And there might be words like terran, hive mind, infested, and government. I am not going to cheat and google it. It sounds like a space theme, and perhaps something regarding insects.
.
There are a lot of contextual or long words, like world, space, evacuated, military, abandon, colony, critical, devouring, planet and region. And there might be words like terran, hive mind, infested, and government. I am not going to cheat and google it. It sounds like a space theme, and perhaps something regarding insects.
Ah yes I remember it now, you are right about the context. If you want to know the details let me know.
Thanks, I will let you know. For now, I am fine.
For the 340 I untransposed the same way (EDIT: period 19), expanded the backward P, + and B and let AZD run on progressive for a while. I got this:
Score: 23456 Ioc: 676 M: 314 C: 340 S: 107 efactgstopoinchil dcombushearriedat warresttitinnhtsa ltedinmedefoutthe metersidentledbun nisshoeasherascut sunoftherperingto bearlassallsinthe endinalledernunan darytogrishionsan dtheandidntlincou rsofcohealsobearm ingthremonaceonth estropolicedcoala terplationgsstill ionantoitbollyont hisehouschargebef ordandconthestoac hahublicallationg anoffiveenougharn 1 201 37 44 11 56 8 60 31 214 6 22 16 2 28 310 33 4 2 301 202 30 50 10 28 13 55 3 3 216 53 4 32 11 110 37 3 21 38 8 51 51 40 47 40 54 41 18 61 8 37 33 11 25 4 22 39 45 9 4 13 17 6 50 11 11 28 38 57 13 51 1 101 23 15 105 206 16 11 29 38 48 30 50 36 39 15 222 10 18 6 24 26 23 52 25 21 37 8 2 50 51 8 50 16 223 17 111 7 25 21 203 53 21 15 210 212 11 14 307 53 55 3 33 26 10 8 26 33 204 10 22 16 61 7 25 53 36 48 219 36 26 29 42 9 27 13 3 54 50 41 211 41 27 37 21 217 11 14 56 43 40 10 28 22 31 106 207 32 39 213 305 28 58 218 36 220 40 48 39 11 29 40 16 44 31 49 3 23 108 215 44 34 28 13 26 311 23 12 30 1 46 3 57 22 16 107 61 52 3 308 45 12 36 46 44 13 31 41 47 7 24 23 51 43 14 306 6 59 40 63 9 27 62 14 32 42 37 51 58 208 303 29 37 51 15 12 309 56 23 23 11 15 33 103 205 6 16 46 36 51 31 40 51 30 31 29 42 312 31 16 302 104 40 23 38 18 34 304 23 63 18 35 21 221 1 30 58 17 34 43 48 55 36 27 62 34 16 47 7 53 23 51 14 55 224 18 35 7 49 30 59 40 63 55 29 42 32 47 109 6 54 56 102 36 6 17 17 15 209 53 38 36 34 50 56 7 26 21 36
efactgstopoinchil
dcombushearriedat
warresttitinnhtsa
ltedinmedefoutthe
metersidentledbun
nisshoeasherascut
sunoftherperingto
bearlassallsinthe
endinalledernunan
darytogrishionsan
dtheandidntlincou
rsofcohealsobearm
ingthremonaceonth
estropolicedcoala
terplationgsstill
ionantoitbollyont
hisehouschargebef
ordandconthestoac
hahublicallationg
anoffiveenougharn
So there are a few six letter words in context. Arrest, police, and charge. There is also childcombus. Child combustion? Sounds Zodiac-like and there is some context. At the bottom there is fiveenough. Although I am not clear if Zodiac knew how many victims he had at that point in time. Not enough to call it a message though. I am hoping that someday we will have a few more six letter words and we can work on fine tuning the correct transposition scheme and message.
Mr. Lowe, if you want to look closer and see anything else there, let me know. Look for a vertical misalignment line, where you could shift the letters on one side of the line up or down and create more long contextual words.
.
The above stems from one variation of the 340?
Soze
The above stems from one variation of the 340? Soze
Yes. If you re-drafted the 340 into 19 columns instead of 17 columns, to line up the period 19 repeats. And then read vertically ( or rotated 90 degrees and read horizontally ). It’s not enough to be a solution, and other un-transpositions that re-connect the period repeat could have better results. Hopefully someday there will be more.
Skokie I will have to drop that onto a spreadsheet to make it readable so I can move lines up and down to get a proper alignment.. It’s to hard to do visually in its present format..
I hacked it down a bit more… plenty of variations can be achieved..
e fact gstopoin child com bus hear riedatw arrest titinnhtsa
ltedinmede fout the meter side ntledbunnis shoe as her as cut
sun of the rpe ring to bear lass all sin the end in all edernun an
d arytogrishions and the andidntlin cours of co heal so be arm
ing thremonace on thest ro police dcoalaterplationgs still
ionantoitbolly on this ehous charge beford and con the stoac
hahubli call at iongan of five enough arn
I’ll work on it more tomorrow with alignment
Alright, Mr. Lowe, thanks for taking a closer look at that. I doubt that this is a solution, but it a good exercise.
I have been thinking about the repeats and the cycles, and how to maybe flush out subsets of a particular suspected polyalphabetic symbol. In other words, there are 24 of the + symbol. Let’s say for the sake of argument that the + maps to more than one plaintext and therefore is part of more than plaintext symbol cycle.
What about a hill climbing approach that randomly changes the + symbols into two or more groups, say, +1, +2, +3, etc. For each iteration, check the period 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x and 5x repeats where x is either 15 or 19. Calculate the repeat counts and scores, and also the overall cycle score. If the scores go up, then keep the changes and make more random changes. Keep doing that over and over again until the symbol is broken down into subsets where the repeat counts and scores and cycle scores are at a maximum. Practice messages could be used to see if the method works, and if it does, apply it to the 340. No untransposition would have to be done until finding the subsets. Something like that.
First, though, I would like to test for polyalphabetism by comparing the AZD score variances for imperfectly untransposed messages with increasing amounts of polyalphabetism.
For the 340 I untransposed the same way (EDIT: period 19), expanded the backward P, + and B and let AZD run on progressive for a while. I got this:
Nice work. I like the idea of the 340 being transposition + wildcards. It could explain the randomization in the cycles but leaves no explanation for the pivots. Though, at the moment the pivots still seem so mysterious we might as well keep trying things that look good.
If the 340 is just a simple transposition + wildcards (period, skytale, diagonal, non-keyed regular and irregular columnar transposition etc) then a solve should be just around the corner. Expand a few of the suspected wildcards (3 or 4) and use AZdecrypt with Reddit 6-grams and about 10.000.000 iterations per.
Here is such a cipher, to be clear, transposition + wildcards. Could be any of these: (period, skytale, diagonal, non-keyed regular and irregular columnar transposition) and anywhere between 3 to 6 wildcards. Oh, and one extra step somewhere, be either flipping, mirroring or reversing the cipher. Didn’t try-hard to emulate the 340. Should prove difficult but I hope you guys could take a look at it.
jarlve_tw1.txt kEbYYNOC6%T;[:Nj" 41?B43m!nPcMWV>JY QBB]j$b_f.2S@I(N/ ^?*%=R;NFekX<&nTo 3[hBlY$!MN<FT"EP# BVY,NNC3><_Nbc1j^ @fTFNI/-:6klQ%O&m Y3jjJ?.$W]S="YNNn [CM1_VA>NRe#FXbo< 2^?!6m%/hjE;)YBST MN3cjJPnfV>.Fb%N< Q*,Nj2)BB@&]I4M$k YT[lY=!P4S"1B3/)- Re<CT6NO;3n#BV,_m @JFF<NNlFSF^oI4Xk ]ANFh>bYY"TQEC-32 c;jjNn1OQ6jmf<[NB /&#T*.!?%M3=R*J*S )$]PBj_lY*"@YINek 1N[o&h<VE>bTcj!3P 1 2 3 4 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 5 14 15 16 17 18 19 16 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 4 31 19 19 32 14 33 3 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 5 42 43 18 44 9 45 46 11 5 47 48 1 49 50 51 23 10 52 20 12 53 19 54 4 33 22 26 5 50 47 10 15 2 24 55 19 28 4 56 5 5 7 20 29 50 34 5 3 25 17 14 43 39 35 10 47 5 40 42 57 13 8 1 54 31 9 6 51 21 4 20 14 14 30 18 36 33 27 32 38 45 15 4 5 5 23 12 7 26 17 34 28 58 29 5 46 48 55 47 49 3 52 50 37 43 18 22 8 21 9 42 53 14 2 11 59 4 19 38 10 26 5 20 25 14 30 24 23 35 28 29 36 47 3 9 5 50 31 44 56 5 14 37 59 19 19 39 51 32 40 16 26 33 1 4 10 12 54 4 45 22 24 16 38 15 17 19 20 42 59 57 46 48 50 7 10 8 5 6 11 20 23 55 19 28 56 34 21 39 30 47 47 50 5 5 54 47 38 47 43 52 40 16 49 1 32 58 5 47 53 29 3 4 4 15 10 31 2 7 57 20 37 25 11 14 14 5 23 17 6 31 8 14 21 35 50 12 5 19 42 51 55 10 44 36 22 18 9 26 20 45 46 44 30 44 38 59 33 32 24 19 14 34 54 4 44 15 39 4 40 5 48 1 17 5 12 52 51 53 50 28 2 29 3 10 25 14 22 20 24
This is really handy for making cipher plaintexts: http://textevo.com/
Copy paste your text into the TextEVO window and then follow these steps:
Replace -> Lettercase with -> All lowercase
Remove -> Blank lines
Remove -> Spaces -> All spaces
Remove -> Line breaks -> All line breaks
Remove -> Non-letters and numbers -> All non-letters and numbers
Should do it! Can also sort and etc, a good online text manipulator.
Jarlve, did you notice that we discussed the pivots recently? Doranchak found that the pivot symbols are period 39 ( period 29 mirrored ) repeats. I was saying that it is possible that they are caused by using the same words a couple of times in a transposition, and period 29/39 maybe because there are skips or nulls in the area. Another idea is that they are an intentional clue left to show that there is a horizontal inscription/transcription. A hint that there is transposition. Either way, without the pivots, there wouldn’t be a noticeable period 39 spike.
Jarlve, did you notice that we discussed the pivots recently? Doranchak found that the pivot symbols are period 39 ( period 29 mirrored ) repeats. I was saying that it is possible that they are caused by using the same words a couple of times in a transposition, and period 29/39 maybe because there are skips or nulls in the area. Another idea is that they are an intentional clue left to show that there is a horizontal inscription/transcription. A hint that there is transposition. Either way, without the pivots, there wouldn’t be a noticeable period 39 spike.
RacecaR fits the 7 letter pivot ". Means nothing..I know but it’s the only thing I can think that fits a palindrome
RacecaR fits the 7 letter pivot ". Means nothing..I know but it’s the only thing I can think that fits a palindrome
Here are some others:
INTERPRETATION: IN[TERPRET]ATION INTERPRETED: IN[TERPRET]ED EXPLOITATION: EXPL[OITATIO]N INTERPRET: IN[TERPRET] INTERPRETATIONS: IN[TERPRET]ATIONS RECOGNISING: RECO[GNISING] INTERPRETING: IN[TERPRET]ING RECOGNIZING: RECO[GNIZING] INTERPRETER: IN[TERPRET]ER INTERPRETERS: IN[TERPRET]ERS MONOTONOUS: M[ONOTONO]US LLEWELLYN: [LLEWELL]YN INTERPRETATIVE: IN[TERPRET]ATIVE MISSISSIPPI: M[ISSISSI]PPI INTERPRETANT: IN[TERPRET]ANT INTERPRETS: IN[TERPRET]S SENSITIVITIES: SENS[ITIVITI]ES SELFLESS: [SELFLES]S INTERPRETIVE: IN[TERPRET]IVE POSSESSOR: P[OSSESSO]R NIECEINLAW: [NIECEIN]LAW MISINTERPRETATION: MISIN[TERPRET]ATION REINTERPRETATION: REIN[TERPRET]ATION PRECIPICE: PR[ECIPICE] MISINTERPRETED: MISIN[TERPRET]ED ROTATORY: [ROTATOR]Y MALAYALAM: M[ALAYALA]M UNIVERSITATIS: UNIVER[SITATIS] ANALYTICITY: ANAL[YTICITY] ASSESSABLE: [ASSESSA]BLE REPAPER: [REPAPER] ROTATOR: [ROTATOR] POSSESSORS: P[OSSESSO]RS INTERPRETABLE: IN[TERPRET]ABLE GLENELG: [GLENELG] NAURUAN: [NAURUAN] PACIFICA: P[ACIFICA] REINTERPRETED: REIN[TERPRET]ED MONOTONOUSLY: M[ONOTONO]USLY POSSESSORY: P[OSSESSO]RY PACIFICATION: P[ACIFICA]TION IGNITING: I[GNITING] FOOTSTOOL: F[OOTSTOO]L REINTERPRET: REIN[TERPRET] MISINTERPRETING: MISIN[TERPRET]ING MISINTERPRET: MISIN[TERPRET] SELFLESSLY: [SELFLES]SLY OVEREXPLOITATION: OVEREXPL[OITATIO]N ABSENTNESS: AB[SENTNES]S COTABATO: C[OTABATO] TARTRATE: [TARTRAT]E TALATALA: T[ALATALA] LLEWELLYNJONES: [LLEWELL]YNJONES SELFLESSNESS: [SELFLES]SNESS DEXTROROTATORY: DEXTRO[ROTATOR]Y ROTATORS: [ROTATOR]S REINTERPRETING: REIN[TERPRET]ING RATTATTAT: R[ATTATTA]T NOTFORPROFIT: NOT[FORPROF]IT PRECIPICES: PR[ECIPICE]S MISSISSIPPIAN: M[ISSISSI]PPIAN INTRAPARTY: IN[TRAPART]Y INTRAPARTUM: IN[TRAPART]UM MISINTERPRETATIONS: MISIN[TERPRET]ATIONS DEIFIED: [DEIFIED] UNINTERPRETABLE: UNIN[TERPRET]ABLE PLATELETAGGREGATE: PL[ATELETA]GGREGATE INTERPRETATIONAL: IN[TERPRET]ATIONAL BEWILDEREDLY: BEWI[LDEREDL]Y SENSUOUSNESS: SE[NSUOUSN]ESS REINTERPRETS: REIN[TERPRET]S PREGNENOLONE: PREGN[ENOLONE] MISSISSIPPIANS: M[ISSISSI]PPIANS MAKHKAMOV: [MAKHKAM]OV LATENINETEENTHCENTURY: LA[TENINET]EENTHCENTURY LATENINETEENTH: LA[TENINET]EENTH DIRTYTRICKS: D[IRTYTRI]CKS TROUSERPRESS: TROU[SERPRES]S RACECARDS: [RACECAR]DS POTAWATOMI: P[OTAWATO]MI OPACIFICATION: OP[ACIFICA]TION HOSEPIPES: HO[SEPIPES] DIACYLGLYCEROL: DIA[CYLGLYC]EROL AGASAGAS: [AGASAGA]S UNINTERPRETED: UNIN[TERPRET]ED REVIVER: [REVIVER] REINTERPRETATIONS: REIN[TERPRET]ATIONS NONPOSSESSORY: NONP[OSSESSO]RY LLEWELLYNSMITH: [LLEWELL]YNSMITH INTERPRETABILITY: IN[TERPRET]ABILITY EXPLOITATIONS: EXPL[OITATIO]NS CREGRAVEMEDEMENTHE: CREGRAV[EMEDEME]NTHE BLAXPLOITATION: BLAXPL[OITATIO]N
