I’m having trouble reproducing your steps. Any chance you could post an example of what steps you went through? Thanks.
doranchak, I will have to do it tonight.. I will dig out my hand made scytale and see what I did. I do remember it being very simple.
cheers
This is scy 30
? columned brings in the 19s and when converted to 17 X 20 that sequence
Doranchak..I hope you can follow how I got to this. Cheers.
Thanks for the explanations, mr. lowe. Now I understand the steps.
I found that is it equivalent to the following steps:
1) Rotate Z340 90 degrees counter clockwise
2) Flip vertically
Steps 1 and 2 make the columns appear as rows.
3) Encode with scytale of diameter (period) 30
4) Transcribe the result to grid of width 17
Then your pattern appears.
Here is the cipher at each step:
original: HER>pl^VPk|1LTG2d Np+B(#O%DWY.<*Kf) By:cM+UZGW()L#zHJ Spp7^l8*V3pO++RK2 _9M+ztjd|5FP+&4k/ p8R^FlO-*dCkF>2D( #5+Kq%;2UcXGV.zL| (G2Jfj#O+_NYz+@L9 d<M+b+ZR2FBcyA64K -zlUV+^J+Op7<FBy- U+R/5tE|DYBpbTMKO 2<clRJ|*5T4M.+&BF z69Sy#+N|5FBc(;8R lGFN^f524b.cV4t++ yBX1*:49CE>VUZ5-+ |c.3zBK(Op^.fMqG2 RcT+L16C<+FlWB|)L ++)WCzWcPOSHT/()p |FkdW<7tB_YOB*-Cc >MDHNpkSzZO8A|K;+ 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 05 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 20 34 35 36 37 19 38 39 15 26 21 33 13 22 40 01 41 42 05 05 43 07 06 44 30 08 45 05 23 19 19 03 31 16 46 47 37 19 40 48 49 17 11 50 51 09 19 52 53 10 54 05 44 03 07 51 06 23 55 30 17 56 10 51 04 16 25 21 22 50 19 31 57 24 58 16 38 36 59 15 08 28 40 13 11 21 15 16 41 32 49 22 23 19 46 18 27 40 19 60 13 47 17 29 37 19 61 19 39 03 16 51 20 36 34 62 63 53 31 55 40 06 38 08 19 07 41 19 23 05 43 29 51 20 34 55 38 19 03 54 50 48 02 11 25 27 20 05 61 14 37 31 23 16 29 36 06 03 41 11 30 50 14 53 37 28 19 52 20 51 40 63 47 42 34 22 19 18 11 50 51 20 36 21 58 44 03 06 15 51 18 07 32 50 16 53 61 28 36 08 53 48 19 19 34 20 59 12 30 35 53 47 56 02 04 08 38 39 50 55 19 11 36 28 45 40 20 31 21 23 05 07 28 32 37 57 15 16 03 36 14 19 13 12 63 56 29 19 51 06 26 20 11 33 13 19 19 33 26 56 40 26 36 09 23 42 01 14 54 21 33 05 11 51 10 17 26 29 43 48 20 46 27 23 20 30 55 56 36 04 37 25 01 18 05 10 42 40 39 23 44 62 11 31 58 19 rot90 ccw, then flip vertically: HNBS_p#(d-U2zly|R+|> Epyp985G<z+<6GBcc+FM R+:pMR+2MlRc9FX.T)kD >Bc7+^KJ+U/lSN13+WdH p(M^zFqfbV5Ry^*zLCWN l#+ltl%j++tJ#f:B1z<p ^OU8jO;#Z^E|+54K6W7k V%Z*d-2ORJ|*N29(CctS PDGV|*U+2+D5|4CO<PBz kWW35dc_FOYT5bEp+O_Z |Y(pFCXNBpB4F.>^FSYO 1.)OPkGYc7pMBcV.lHO8 L<L++FVzy<b.cVUfWTBA T*#+&>.+AFT+(4ZMB/*| GKzR42z@6BM&;t5q|(-K 2fHKkDLL4yKB8+-G))C; d)J2/(|9K-OFR++2Lpc+ 01 18 20 42 46 05 22 21 17 55 38 16 40 06 34 11 03 19 11 04 02 05 34 05 47 44 50 15 29 40 19 29 63 15 20 36 36 19 51 37 03 19 35 05 37 03 19 16 37 06 03 36 47 51 59 28 14 33 10 25 04 20 36 43 19 07 31 41 19 38 54 06 42 18 12 45 19 26 17 01 05 21 37 07 40 51 57 32 61 08 50 03 34 07 30 40 13 56 26 18 06 22 19 06 48 06 24 49 19 19 48 41 22 32 35 20 12 40 29 05 07 23 38 44 49 23 58 22 39 07 02 11 19 50 53 31 63 26 43 10 08 24 39 30 17 55 16 23 03 41 11 30 18 16 47 21 56 36 48 42 09 25 15 08 11 30 38 19 16 19 25 50 11 53 56 23 29 09 20 40 10 26 26 45 50 17 36 46 51 23 27 14 50 61 02 05 19 23 46 39 11 27 21 05 51 56 59 18 20 05 20 53 51 28 04 07 51 42 27 23 12 28 33 23 09 10 15 27 36 43 05 37 20 36 08 28 06 01 23 44 13 29 13 19 19 51 08 40 34 29 61 28 36 08 38 32 26 14 20 62 14 30 22 19 52 04 28 19 62 51 14 19 21 53 39 37 20 54 30 11 15 31 40 03 53 16 40 60 63 20 37 52 58 48 50 57 11 21 55 31 16 32 01 31 10 25 13 13 53 34 31 20 44 19 55 15 33 33 56 58 17 33 41 16 54 21 11 47 31 55 23 51 03 19 19 16 13 05 36 19 apply scytale with diameter(period) 30, then apply width 17 and the sequence H*H*F+F+ appears: H+>5^|kBLT2ON<BRO *W4<+fFB6cyUNWFL( HRSG7^823.+4K+_B+ *j95>+Zk+pc^zO(d^ FMD2#cKL;CcFVBLL( +JC#c_Sz/LpdF+WZt FYy*4c-MUN^SOO<|y +UR/lEPY1bGK2+l#| DT..KBz:S++G5)cz8 lpNl5VbOVR+yM1t4| EPU4-|R3lK*pkf2GR ++%6U+GWz)+2WjW+O YT@)|Md+72_cB6C>l H+k+Z7AB;ERptVD|p TMdpc(J%5YM*&)y9M #Z|(B#;JpF^f*4pc+ t29Xz:dCFV&5/8.FB -OC.>q(5Tq12<Xl.| |G)fzOPNH+(9<kb<R BBOA-KzDVpJzp8FK- 01 19 04 50 07 11 10 20 13 14 16 23 18 29 20 03 23 30 26 53 29 19 32 51 20 63 36 34 38 18 26 51 13 21 01 03 42 15 43 07 44 16 45 28 19 53 31 19 46 20 19 30 49 47 50 04 19 39 10 19 05 36 07 40 23 21 17 07 51 37 25 16 22 36 31 13 58 56 36 51 08 20 13 13 21 19 41 56 22 36 46 42 40 54 13 05 17 51 19 26 39 48 51 27 34 30 53 36 55 37 38 18 07 42 23 23 29 11 34 19 38 03 54 06 02 09 27 12 61 15 31 16 19 06 22 11 25 14 28 28 31 20 40 35 42 19 19 15 50 33 36 40 44 06 05 18 06 50 08 61 23 08 03 19 34 37 12 48 53 11 02 09 38 53 55 11 03 45 06 31 30 05 10 32 16 15 03 19 19 24 63 38 19 15 26 40 33 19 16 26 49 26 19 23 27 14 60 33 11 37 17 19 43 16 46 36 20 63 56 04 06 01 19 10 19 39 43 62 20 58 02 03 05 48 08 25 11 05 14 37 17 05 36 21 41 24 50 27 37 30 52 33 34 47 37 22 39 11 21 20 22 58 41 05 51 07 32 30 53 05 36 19 48 16 47 59 40 35 17 56 51 08 52 50 54 44 28 51 20 55 23 56 28 04 57 21 50 14 57 12 16 29 59 06 28 11 11 15 33 32 40 23 09 18 01 19 21 47 29 10 61 29 03 20 20 23 62 55 31 40 25 08 05 41 40 05 44 51 31 55
So I think you are right – we need to generate a bunch of different possibilities for these kinds of operations, and feed them into azdecrypt to see if anything pops out.
I also want to try to figure out the positions in the original Z340 that correspond to the H*H*F+F+ pattern. I’m wondering if the positions correspond with any other curiosities about the Z340.
I also want to try to figure out the positions in the original Z340 that correspond to the H*H*F+F+ pattern. I’m wondering if the positions correspond with any other curiosities about the Z340.
OK I figured this out. Here are illustrations of the process, with your H*H*F+F+ pattern marked at each step:
Original Z340:
Note that one of the symbols involved in your pattern is also involved with one of the pivots.
Rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise, then flipped vertically (so now the rows are read as columns):
Written to a grid of width 30, to better show the effect of scytale of diameter (period) 30:
The scytale 30 operation is then the same as reading out the above columns one by one:
Now, isn’t this interesting: Look at where the pattern appears in the original Z340. Some of the symbols are separated by this rule: Move down 3 positions, then move across 3 positions. The same movement can be used to describe the pivots themselves: If you start at the top of a pivot, then you can follow it by moving down 3 positions, then moving across 3 positions.
(Update: I hope someone can verify my steps, because I’m worried that I made some mistake somewhere.)
Doranchak …great work ..I’m struggling to keep up .. Can you mark the original pivots on a similar format and then see where they end up in this structure.. Cheers.
Funny you should ask, since I happened to be working on that already! 
Doesn’t appear to be much pattern to the pivot pieces there, apart from the half filled square coinciding with your vertical pattern (on row two). And some of the pivot symbols share columns.
Am I right in saying that a period 30 columnar scy brings together period 19s in the rows..?
Sorry let me think about that some more…its late here…
I like the pivots and am always looking to see how they can fit into a structure.. Pity they don’t in this case..
I like the pivots and am always looking to see how they can fit into a structure.. Pity they don’t in this case..
They don’t, but I still like the connection between the pattern and one pivot’s corner symbol. And the "move 3 down, 3 across" link. Not sure if it means anything, though! When I get time, I will try to run all the different variations of your scheme, to see if any other patterns pop out. Then I’ll try to feed them into azdecrypt.
Am I right in saying that a period 30 columnar scy brings together period 19s in the rows..?
I’m not sure. It might be bringing some but not all of them, because when I count the number of repeating bigrams in the result, it comes out to 21. Original Z340 has 25 repeats, but applying the normal (non-columnar) scytale of period 19 yields 37 repeats.
Ok .. Gunna crash and burn ..hope I don’t dream of pivots..
Cheers
Written to a grid of width 30, to better show the effect of scytale of diameter (period) 30:
(Update: I hope someone can verify my steps, because I’m worried that I made some mistake somewhere.)
Looks o.k. to me. I like how the H and + symbols show up in the upper left and lower right corners of the 12 row part of the message, defining the offset.
There are:
Four of the H symbols;
Six of the diagonal box symbols;
Ten of the F symbols; and
24 of the + symbols.
It is like two period 57 unigram repeats that create two period 94 bigram repeats, boxed in with two period 37 repeats, all symmetrical. That is very strange.
Looks o.k. to me. I like how the H and + symbols show up in the upper left and lower right corners of the 12 row part of the message, defining the offset.
Are you referring to these:
