Interesting…BUT even using your idea it could mean Z was 24 years old or 42 years old or born in 42 (like Ted) or at 8 on 8/8.

Or maybe those are not even "8" ‘s maybe they are the infinity symbol or the Taurus symbol…

Interesting…BUT even using your idea it could mean Z was 24 years old or 42 years old or born in 42 (like Ted) or at 8 on 8/8.

Or maybe those are not even "8" ‘s maybe they are the infinity symbol or the Taurus symbol…

The three circle symbols I may have conceded may be the Taurus symbol had it not been for the 408 being three sections of eight lines of cipher. The Three sections of eight lines seem fairly random and I wouldn’t try and assign meaning to them if that was the only time the Zodiac seemed to use three sets of eight, but a second appearance of Three Eights being random coincidence? Not for me. Not when you consider who it is your dealing with, a man who loves to play word and number games using Ciphers, Misspelling Avery deliberately and making sure we know he’s doing it deliberate, claiming Radian Angles can be found using Mt Diablo and so on.

But yes, 24 could be a reference to anything. Although I personally don’t believe Z was in his twenties, and I don’t say that because of a bias for Kane, if it were conclusively proven tomorrow that Kane was not, and could not have been, Zodiac then I would still be of the opinion Z was an older guy. Again, that is just personal opinion, and yes, 24 could be the day of a month he was born, ie 24th June for example, or 24 being split into three eights could be a reference to working eight hours of a 24 hour day, it could be a number of things. But one thing that remains factual, which bias could not and does not effect in any way, is that Kane was born in 1924, and 408 was his residential address in Zephyr Cove. Speaking of Zephyr AK, did I ever get to show you this also…

http://website.lineone.net/~zzoc3/

I’m pretty sure, personally that the 3 symbols in the Z13 are 8’s in a circle. Now whether that means they are to be taken as the number is anyone’s guess but that’s ok cause for this thread we are assuming that lol.

The problem I have with the numbers approach for clue seeking is that is a bit unpredictable. By that I mean that’s the problem I personally found trying to think in that approach. Unpredictable’s the wrong word, not solid enough would be a better way to put it. I agree about the possible inference between name and identity. That’s a syntax that has been pondered for many years. If you wanted to add another aspect to that regarding hidden clues then he does state "I will not GIVE you my name". You could interpret that to mean "you have to work it out". Implying the tools are possibly there for that purpose.

It’s not the worst way to try and eek something out of this stuff (we’ve all tried it at some point) but if it were me I would get stuck on little niggly things. For example. How to be sure the Z13 has a relevance to the 408 when it was included directly after after the statement "By the way have you cracked the last cipher I sent you?" and that was the Z340.

Say it was Kane and these were the clues. Was he living at the 408 address at the time the Z408 was sent? That would at least help with that part of the theory. We’ve all seen and made connections over the years to the Zephyr Zodiac. I was just thinking though, in context of this thread, Zephyr sounds like cipher. I’m sure that’s been said before as well. Amusing zync though if this kind of theory turned out to be true. 408 cipher cove lol.

What about the Z340 actually and the Z32 for that matter. Should the numbers in those also be significant and mean something as well in relation to a POI? If it was done with the 408 and the 13 then I would wonder if it had been done for the other two. If you could find something there and on a similar level of complexity or inferred relevance to your POI too then that would be good thing I would think.

I’m pretty sure, personally that the 3 symbols in the Z13 are 8’s in a circle. Now whether that means they are to be taken as the number is anyone’s guess but that’s ok cause for this thread we are assuming that lol.

The problem I have with the numbers approach for clue seeking is that is a bit unpredictable. By that I mean that’s the problem I personally found trying to think in that approach. Unpredictable’s the wrong word, not solid enough would be a better way to put it. I agree about the possible inference between name and identity. That’s a syntax that has been pondered for many years. If you wanted to add another aspect to that regarding hidden clues then he does state "I will not GIVE you my name". You could interpret that to mean "you have to work it out". Implying the tools are possibly there for that purpose.

It’s not the worst way to try and eek something out of this stuff (we’ve all tried it at some point) but if it were me I would get stuck on little niggly things. For example. How to be sure the Z13 has a relevance to the 408 when it was included directly after after the statement "By the way have you cracked the last cipher I sent you?" and that was the Z340.

Say it was Kane and these were the clues. Was he living at the 408 address at the time the Z408 was sent? That would at least help with that part of the theory. We’ve all seen and made connections over the years to the Zephyr Zodiac. I was just thinking though, in context of this thread, Zephyr sounds like cipher. I’m sure that’s been said before as well. Amusing zync though if this kind of theory turned out to be true. 408 cipher cove lol.

What about the Z340 actually and the Z32 for that matter. Should the numbers in those also be significant and mean something as well in relation to a POI? If it was done with the 408 and the 13 then I would wonder if it had been done for the other two. If you could find something there and on a similar level of complexity or inferred relevance to your POI too then that would be good thing I would think.

"The problem I have with the numbers approach for clue seeking is that is a bit unpredictable." I agree, and I assure you Trav I did not sit there looking at the ciphers trying to forge a connection. This, the reference to three eights, was something that he deliberately used twice. The second time, it couldn’t be more in your ace with ‘8 8 8’ circled. The ‘My Name Is’ line of code appears, at least at face value, to be written from right to left, rather than left to right. As Hines says, Hebrew reads from right to left, maybe he Jewish? Just possibilities.

Did Kane, or Cane as he was now calling himself, have the Zephyr Cove residence at 408 McFaul Way at the time the 408 as written? I wish I knew. Not only is this man a nightmare to follow any paper trail for, but Zephyr Cove is a Census designated area and even though I don’t know what that fully implies (British, never heard of this over this side of the pond), it will probably make finding residential details for him even more difficult. The only thing that I can say in favour of Kane having another address while he was in San Fran is, and assuming Harvey Hines is correct, then Kane was staying at 217 Eddy, which was a kinda halfway house/cheap Hotel apparently so that accommodation would only have been temp surely?

As I say, I myself am not a big fan of over-complicating this case by coming up with another solution to one or more of his word games, and that’s why you’ll only find this one thread I have started and/or comment on in the Cipher Threads in general. But this one for me just stood out, whether it be Kane or no, there are three eights encircled, and three sets of eight lines of cipher. if the number of lines per section of cipher is no coincidence then maybe neither are the number of letters and symbols in each of these lines (17). 17 x 24 is 408.

But yeah, the number clues are dodgy because even if you crack a code or hidden message to uncover a number, that is great but you then have to decide what that number means and how to prove it means what you say it does. That’s why with stuff like the mathematical angle of the Radian seeming of some importance, at least that what Zodiac tells his public. Even I you get your compass out, right angel measuring device, ruler and a magnifying glass and then discover that even one Radian can be formed (lets say its Lake Herman Road Pumping Station and Blur Rock Golf Course), what does that tell you? Does it mean anything at all? Is it a clue he’s giving? I mean surely nobody would go out of their way to create such a specific angle for the sake of creating an angle. Surely there wold would have to be a reason, right? Hmmm, this is Zodiac now remember lol.

"If you cops think I’m going to take on a school bus the way I stated …."

"I was leaving fake clews"

"fake accidents"

It doesn’t look good when it comes to actually providing something, anything for that matter. I would feel a whole lot better if, regarding clues, we had somewhere at some point found anything that actually panned out or added up.

Take Riverside for example. To the best of my knowledge there’s nothing prior to the LA Times admission that could be even construed as a clue to that. So unfortunately there doesn’t seem to a precedent for hidden clues.

Referring back to the above quotes. These unfortunately may hint that even when he presents something as a clue it may not be one, but rather just another puzzle. Still worth unravelling though, if only for the satisfaction or relief of it. That’s why I point out if someone posts a thought that has been looked at before. Not to say, that’s been covered already or someone has already thought of that but rather to say that’s been brought up before and, in some instances, discussed at length so there’s material out there to read regarding that thought and not to say, that’s been done and dusted.

The nature of the material in this case is, unfortunately for us, a breeding ground for speculation and theory. That’s Zodiac’s doing. He certainly gave us some bussy[sic] work to do and even a little something for everyone. Language, handwriting, codes, ciphers, maps, bespoke greeting cards, poetry, musicals ….. etc etc. Leaves us no choice really but to poke and guess.

That’s why, from years of experience, we like facts so much and correct people in the information they post. Not to appear more knowledgeable but to protect those facts because in this mire of a case they could so easily get lost along with ourselves. We have to stray and speculate but we need something solid to come back to as well.

Onwards and sideways. I would say upwards but lets not get ahead of ourselves lol.

What if we lay it all out, like board game, or like a police bulletin board, the letters, cards, codes. Maybe looking at it as a whole might speak a message.
There was thoughtful construct behind all of this. If Zodiac really didn’t want us to know who he was he would have never bothered sending letters in the first place.
Somewhere inside of Zodiac is the victim he once was and he is in need of help, and no one is there to protect him.

What if we lay it all out, like board game, or like a police bulletin board, the letters, cards, codes. Maybe looking at it as a whole might speak a message.
There was thoughtful construct behind all of this. If Zodiac really didn’t want us to know who he was he would have never bothered sending letters in the first place.
Somewhere inside of Zodiac is the victim he once was and he is in need of help, and no one is there to protect him.

Not sure if this is what your’re thinking of Judith but I maybe already did. You can download the stuff (links directly above the images) and follow the instructions. It’s not complicated. Download it, unzip it and look for the web page and open and enjoy.

viewtopic.php?f=97&t=337&p=857&hilit=zoom#p857

"If you cops think I’m going to take on a school bus the way I stated …."

"I was leaving fake clews"

"fake accidents"

It doesn’t look good when it comes to actually providing something, anything for that matter. I would feel a whole lot better if, regarding clues, we had somewhere at some point found anything that actually panned out or added up.

Take Riverside for example. To the best of my knowledge there’s nothing prior to the LA Times admission that could be even construed as a clue to that. So unfortunately there doesn’t seem to a precedent for hidden clues.

Referring back to the above quotes. These unfortunately may hint that even when he presents something as a clue it may not be one, but rather just another puzzle. Still worth unravelling though, if only for the satisfaction or relief of it. That’s why I point out if someone posts a thought that has been looked at before. Not to say, that’s been covered already or someone has already thought of that but rather to say that’s been brought up before and, in some instances, discussed at length so there’s material out there to read regarding that thought and not to say, that’s been done and dusted.

The nature of the material in this case is, unfortunately for us, a breeding ground for speculation and theory. That’s Zodiac’s doing. He certainly gave us some bussy[sic] work to do and even a little something for everyone. Language, handwriting, codes, ciphers, maps, bespoke greeting cards, poetry, musicals ….. etc etc. Leaves us no choice really but to poke and guess.

That’s why, from years of experience, we like facts so much and correct people in the information they post. Not to appear more knowledgeable but to protect those facts because in this mire of a case they could so easily get lost along with ourselves. We have to stray and speculate but we need something solid to come back to as well.

Onwards and sideways. I would say upwards but lets not get ahead of ourselves lol.

No I agree with you on the basic premise of the ‘clues’ being open to interpretation and nothing is really solid that you can point to and say ‘That there, is most certainly, unquestionably, Zodiacs partial finger print! As it is, even the evidence that is considered the strongest in the case, the like of The Palm Print, partial DNA, finger print in blood lifted from cab etc, none of these we can say with certainty ‘That palm print is Zodiac’s.’ Yes a bloody print was lifted from the cab, but can we rule out another source such as one of the teens leaning in the cab before the first unit responds on scene? Or was it really as Z said, just a fake clue to needle the blue pigs with? Same with the palm print, no evidence it was left by Z. All this type of evidence, DNA, Prints etc is fantastic and will exclusively say, to the exclusion of everyone else upon Planet Earth, "These finger prints are Suspect A’s, that is beyond question." But this evidence that is an absolutely fantastic tool used by LE to catch criminals is also absolutely useless and unusable if you have no matching DNA/Prints to compare to.