I really appreciate the ease and clarity of explanation that Dave Oranchak uses in his presentations, either alone or through the A to Z podcast. However, I think spending valuable time creating a video to explain to the handful of people in the entire world who still believe that the 408 cipher hasn’t been solved, is punching down. It’s akin to creating a video to prove that the earth is round to flat-earthers, or creating a video to prove to creationists that the world is older than 6,000 years. You will finish the video and these people will still retain the same beliefs. My guess is Graysmith, Starliper, Stewart and Sechrest wouldn’t budge a millimetre if you threw logic at them all day. I think Dave’s time would be better spent pushing the envelope and promoting his own ideas, as opposed to targeting the lowest hanging fruit of long discredited solutions.

I really appreciate the ease and clarity of explanation that Dave Oranchak uses in his presentations, either alone or through the A to Z podcast. However, I think spending valuable time creating a video to explain to the handful of people in the entire world who still believe that the 408 cipher hasn’t been solved, is punching down. It’s akin to creating a video to prove that the earth is round to flat-earthers, or creating a video to prove to creationists that the world is older than 6,000 years. You will finish the video and these people will still retain the same beliefs. My guess is Graysmith, Starliper, Stewart and Sechrest wouldn’t budge a millimetre if you threw logic at them all day. I think Dave’s time would be better spent pushing the envelope and promoting his own ideas, as opposed to targeting the lowest hanging fruit of long discredited solutions.

From this point of view I have not seen it yet. You make a very good point. You can’t convince someone who won’t hear or accept the facts. But there are not only these "deniers". I have been dealing with z340 and z408 for a very long time and have talked to many people about the topic. Again and again there were some who were skeptical that the solution of z408 is correct. But this scepticism was based on the fact that they did not know the elementary concepts of homophonic encryption. They did not doubt the solution out of defiance, but out of natural curiosity.
Therefore, it is not a matter of convincing conspiracy theorists. Nor can that work. It’s much more about teaching basic knowledge. This could arouse the interest of many people.

Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Some people have ridiculous ideas out there which are not based in reality, and nothing will change their mind. If people think the 408 is unsolved, they’ll continue to live in their delusional world no matter who tries to convince them otherwise. I’ve made the mistake of arguing with people like that before, and it is completely fruitless.

Nonetheless, no matter what dornachak makes his content about, I’m sure it will be interesting and worthwhile.

Dunning Kruger effect

Dave always produces interesting content, at the 2015 Cryptologic Symposium, his explanations on the A to Z podcast, and his debunking on Let’s Crack Zodiac. I have a much better understanding of cryptography now because of it. I do understand the need to address what has gone before with regard to the ciphers, but if we spend the majority of our time debunking these overblown and patently false solutions sensationalised in the media, we are effectively being co-opted by them. The more time we spend on baseless claims, the less time we have to be productive.

Dunning Kruger effect – exactly Marclean.

It’s really good doranchak, quality production! Hope to see more.

It’s really good doranchak, quality production! Hope to see more.

Thanks for watching, Jarlve! I’m editing Episode 2 now.

I’m editing Episode 2 now.

It’s finally ready:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyH9-AHz-HY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyH9-AHz-HY

First of all, let me say that the ciphers were the primary thing that caught my eye when I first heard about the Zodiac. I naively thought I could solve them. I didn’t really spend much time on them when other aspects of the case caught my attention and directed me away from them. I eventually decided that the 340 is intentionally garbage–that Z made up a fake cipher to keep people guessing.

I have not completely dismissed the 340, however. As an aside, I think Z was likely dyslexic, while means that some of his spelling/transcription errors are unintentional. More to the point, though, could the 340 be a standard cipher of some type (I have no thoughts about what kind), with one simple change? Having read about how the Hardens solve the 408, is it possible he did something to obscure the double letter combinations and/or the consonant clusters? For instance, could he have used one symbol to represent one set of letters (x=ll; or x=sh)? Or, could he have used two characters to represent the same letter (x= [first] l; q= [second consecutive] l)?

First, I hope I made sense. Second, I hope I’m not treading well-travelled ground. Anybody have any thoughts?

Yes, it is possible the cipher is a "normal" type but with some added twist. Many possibilities have been tested but certainly some have not been explored yet.

The twists you mention are called nomenclator (a symbol can stand for "chunks" of letters) and verbose ciphers ("chunks" of symbols can stand for a letter).
Nomenclator was tested here: viewtopic.php?f=81&t=2782
Jarl’s cipher seems good at recovering solutions for those kinds of ciphers.

Verbose came up before: viewtopic.php?p=74144#p74144
But Z340’s stats don’t seem to reflect the use of verbose cipher.

Well, heck. I guess I’ll slink back to my fact investigation and leave the ciphers to the experts.

Thank you.

Don’t be discouraged. Those possibilities were looked at before but they might be worth revisiting. You never know what people might miss.

New episode!

viewtopic.php?f=81&t=4963