tahoe27, Subject: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:16 pm
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In Graysmith’s second book pg. 128 (as much as I’m not a fan of the 2nd one) he mentions someone telling him it is a "Binary Spacing Code" using the Greek alphabet.
If you look at the Greek Alphabet in UPPERCASE, many of these symbols are there. The Omega Symbol too.
Zodiac does use the term "code" when he refers to the "Mt. Diablo code" which is different the term cipher he otherwise used.
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Check out the uppercase Greek letters. This is what is mentioned:
"…the upper-case letters more commonly stand for sets and spaces, and sometimes for repeated arithmetic operations such as adding and multiplying (see Sigma and Pi).
http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/art … /index.asp
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This was the ONLY time Zodiac used the Omega symbol, so this pertaining to the Greek alphabet makes sense, imo. And uppercase letters can be used in the way it is mentioned above (of course we know Z used radians etc).
How can something have anything to do with "# of inches along radians" and not have numbers in the code?
I TRULY BELIEVE THIS CODE TRANSFERS TO NUMBERS. HAS ANYONE TRIED THAT??
Which brings me back to this thread:
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com … e-latitude
Ricardo, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:33 pm
Robert Graysmith was referring to the Mt. Diablo Code Key which Goldcatcher worked on with David Blackman. The Mt. Diablo Code Key was examined by Walter Lamar of the FBI.
Maybe someone else has a different solution based upon a numerical method of cryptography.
tahoe27, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:39 am
It just seems everyone is always looking for words.
I think this code uses the Greek alphabet (to be changed to numbers) along with some of his already used cipher symbols for letters.
Interesting thing. The OMEGA symbol = 800. An "O" = 70. (Zodiac’s code contains these two symbols side by side)…after researching how the Greek letters tranfer to numbers, I find these two side by side on a few occasions–which led me to go back and look at Z’s code to see that these too were side by side. 870.
Anyway–latitude in Vallejo…the last digits = 865.
Just tryin’ something new. He is pinpointing a particular location after all!
morf13, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:29 am
Just tryin’ something new. He is pinpointing a particular location after all!
Tahoe, the code stuff is not my strong point 
so for code challenged people like me, where do you think that points to? Is there anymore to be found, or do you just have the limited stuff you found so far?
, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:59 am
I am not big on the codes either but this at first looked like it would be easy so I tried it a little bit last night…….its not easy.
But it seems to be a fresh approach to me so I will try it again when I have time.
Its very interesting……….good idea Tahoe.
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:22 pm
I don’t think this code translates to pure numbers. If it did, it might be that you make the first translation to the alphabet, then translate A to Z as 1 to 26. So you get a string of numbers, which could be map coordinates.
I am 99% sure I have the correct solution, using a Caesar Code with 0-3-6-9 shift values as the final stage translation, to the Mt. Diablo Map Code here:
http://unazod.com/Wilks_32.htm
But for those who disagree, and think it might be a numbers solution, I still think Zodiac would largely use his proven code system, the "Harden Key", because otherwise a code this short would be virtually impossible to solve, and Zodiac would know that. And it seems he wanted this solved.
Here is what you get if you use "Harden Key" for 28 of the 32 symbols – 4 symbols are new, so I had to solve them.
The 13th symbol in the Map Code, an upside down horse shoe, does not appear in the code Harden translated. I translated it, primarily by backward engineering and word solving, as an "X". I note also that in math an unknown is often represented by an "X". The 12th symbol here, a shaded in triangle, was solved by the Hardens as a switch between "S" and "A". Let us use math again. "A" is the 1st letter in the alphabet, and "S" is the 19th. 19 – 9 = 10, and 1 + 9 = 10. The 10th letter in the alphabet is "J", so I solve it as a "J". And the 1st and 26th symbols here are "C", which does not appear in Harden, and I solve it as a "C". Other than that, I used the Harden translation, so of the 32 symbols, one I solve (sort of) differently then the Harden’s did (J), and three did not appear so I make new solutions (X, C, C). The other 28 symbols are translated according to the Harden Key. The first phase of the Map Code I translate as follows:
So those interested in this code might want to use that 32 letter string as a jumping off point for further work, be it towards a numbers based solution or otherwise.
If you do that, I think this is what you get:
C.I.F..T….L….N..I…O..W..H.D.J….X…N..G..O..A..O…E…S..N…B..X….L..T…C..E..T…D.I…E..I
3.9.6..20.12.14…9.15.23..8.4.10..24.14..7..15..1..15..5.19..14..2..24..12..20.3..5..20.4..9…5..9
tahoe27, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:17 pm
Ak–I don’t mean to disregard anyone’s hard work…and you have obviously done your share of hard work. Just wanted to take another look, as I think there is something very different about this code vs. the 408.
Regarding the map and use of 0, 3, 6, 9…..looks like a reference to a clock/time.
Longitude and latitude are also measured in minutes, seconds, etc. This is what Mt. D was used for. It makes sense Mt. Diablo is used as a reference point for a location. I’m thinking # of inches along radians is seconds.
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Just hoping for a new eye, and maybe something will jump out at someone.
AK Wilks, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:57 pm
Right, anything is possible. But if Zodiac meant to represent a clock, I think it would read 12..3..6..9. Instead, I think the repeated references to 0..3..6..9 indicate a shift pattern, along with the "+09" that is at the center of the 340, and numerous other references to these numbers 0,3,6 and 9.
But I encourage every approach. There could be secondary or hidden codes along with the main code. Maybe these are numbers that represent map coordinates. That is why I posted what I did.
With a short 32 symbol code, I would strongly argue that it simply HAS to be mostly the same as the Harden Key, because otherwise it could never be solved, and IMO Zodiac would not have taken the time to make this if it could not be solved.
So if I am right that Harden Key provides the basis for the 28 known symbols, and you are right that it is a numbers based code, this is the result – though I would also consider this number string backwards. And then you have to figure out how to apply it to the Map, with Mt. Diablo as the center. Perhaps 3 hours, 9 minutes, 6 seconds, etc.?
C.I.F..T….L….N..I…O..W..H.D.J….X…N..G..O..A..O…E…S..N…B..X….L..T…C..E..T…D.I…E..I
3.9.6..20.12.14…9.15.23..8.4.10..24.14..7..15..1..15..5.19..14..2..24..12..20.3..5..20.4..9…5..9
tahoe27, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:02 pm
A "Greek" Planetary Astrolabe
"An astrolabe (Greek: ἁστρολάβον astrolabon, "star-taker")[1] is a historical astronomical instrument used by astronomers, navigators, and astrologers. Its many uses include locating and predicting the positions of the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars; determining local time given local latitude and vice-versa; surveying; triangulation; and to cast horoscopes."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrolabe
(Not that this has anything to do with it, but I had never seen one before. It uses the Zodiac calendar too.)
rand, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:25 am
When I look at this, two things jump out at me:
1. M
H*EL*P
HELP ME
2. In that same area: *CEL**W
CLEW
And Z says that the code is a clue (clew) to where the bomb was placed.
Given these two aspects of the "code," it would surprise me if it was not some simple anagram or something along those lines. But who knows?
tahoe27, Subject: Re: Mt. Diable Code – Greek Alphabet/Numbers Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:38 pm
Also, I think cooridinates of longitude and latitude…one of the number lines is longer than the other.
“…they may be dealing with one or more ersatz Zodiacs–other psychotics eager to get into the act, or perhaps even other murderers eager to lay their crimes at the real Zodiac’s doorstep.“ L.A. Times, 1969
Hi Tahoe.
I posted this on the old forum a while back. It might be interesting or relevant to your thinking…
Source of the Zodiac symbol?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
The first major public article on this ancient greek computer was in the Scientific American in 1959. the original article is here:
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/SCAMKythera.htm
Why is it interesting to me vis a vis the Zodiac case?
1. The most famous image of the relic is a clear cross within a circle and although the drawn Zodiac device was simple lines, the sketch from Lake Berryessa showed the embroidered device to be quite thick.
2. "Each had a little subsidiary dial resembling the ‘seconds’ dial of a watch" (quote from the article) – ‘It’s about time.’ (quote from the Confession letter)
3. "Clearly this dial showed the annual motion of the sun in the zodiac. By means of key letters inscribed on the zodiac scale" (again, quoted from the 1959 article)
4. The mechanism is Greek with Greek writing visible on the relic. Some say that Zodiac used Greek symbols in his ciphers and in fact there is a theory that the 18 unsolved characters in the 408 cipher are Greek
5. It involves geometry and physics (you can clearly see 30, 60, 90 in the illustration in the article)
6. The find was significant because the mechanism is considered high technology, previously thought only to exist from the 14th century. This is interesting if TJK is your POI.
7. There are numerous references to water in the article – underwater, water clock etc. (as well as wood).
This is as far as I’ve investigatged this. Perhaps it’s worth looking a little closer at the geometry aspect as well as the Greek inscriptions. If anyone wants to look further then I would recommend keeping the focus on earlier writings (such as the 1959 article) as more has been discovered more recently and that information would not have been available to Zodiac back in the 60’s or 70’s.
Luke – Good to see you post, haven’t seen you in awhile.
This is the device below.
MODERATOR
Hi folks.
I know this thread (and me for that matter) has been dormant for a while. I’ve recently seen that a new book has been released, proposing that TK is the Zodiac Killer.
That made me look up the Antikythera Mechanism again. I found a couple, even more compelling attributes:
1. The device definitely included inscriptions of all 12 signs of the zodiac.
2. "It also tracked the precession of the elliptical orbit around the ecliptic in an 8.88 year cycle". I have no idea what that means but the reference to the 3 8’s is very interesting.
Hi folks.
I know this thread (and me for that matter) has been dormant for a while. I’ve recently seen that a new book has been released, proposing that TK is the Zodiac Killer.
That made me look up the Antikythera Mechanism again. I found a couple, even more compelling attributes:
1. The device definitely included inscriptions of all 12 signs of the zodiac.
2. "It also tracked the precession of the elliptical orbit around the ecliptic in an 8.88 year cycle". I have no idea what that means but the reference to the 3 8’s is very interesting.
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-head-of-the-cross
In many previous articles it was considered whether the Zodiac Killer murdered with religious motivation, from his references to paradise and the afterlife, to a numerical system buried deep within his cards and ciphers. The numbers 888 and 444 were integral to this hypothesis. In Christian numerology, the number 888 represents Jesus, or sometimes more specifically Christ the Redeemer. In English numerology 444 represents Jesus, based upon a multiplication factor of 6.
Was the murderer of five likening himself to Jesus Christ, the savior of souls for the afterlife. The thirteen eyes representing 13 souls he was allegedly claiming, looking at the crucified form of Jesus Christ or a potential fourteenth victim. This was after all a Halloween Card.
Very interesting Jacob.
Of course, there are the 3 circled 8’s included in the 13 character cipher.
Very interesting Jacob.
Of course, there are the 3 circled 8’s included in the 13 character cipher.
We might be onto something here.
There are two ways of interpreting a self-comparison to Jesus: religious delusion, possible if a mental illness like schizophrenia is involved, or simply twisted mockery of Christianity motivated by anti-religiosity.
Both could apply to TK. If he was Zodiac then a self-perception as a puritan figure, punishing the "sin" of adulterous teenage couples, would fit his mentality at the time of the killings. TK’s ideological agenda as Unabomber could be described as a secular puritanism.
Welcome back Luke68!
Always liked your posts & creative thinking!
Zincerely, Zam*
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If Zodiac ever joined a Z forum, I’m sure he would have been banned for not following forum rules. Zam’s/Quote
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MODERATOR
Some further thoughts on Zodiac’s possible Christ/Jesus motif:
Zodiac claimed that the 480 cipher would reveal his identity. While he says he will not give us his name, he does tell us his plan is to be reborn and collect slaves in the afterlife. Resurrected like Jesus in Christianity and a god-like keeper of the afterlife. Perhaps the answer to his promise lies in plain sight: he is telling us he is a god.
Also, the name Theodore means "god-given" in original Latin.
