Smokie,
Fascinating stuff. My cipher shows 37 cycle starts in the first row and 8 in the second. And in the 340 it is more spread out with 24 cycle starts in the first row and 20 in the second. I wonder how that compares to other ciphers. The filler in my cipher are row 12 and 14.
Here’s another one. A mystery cipher with a randomized plaintext.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 5 13 14 7 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 3 25 26 27 28 4 19 18 29 30 31 32 1 18 33 34 21 35 36 37 10 12 38 17 3 39 6 4 40 41 1 42 43 18 44 32 45 46 18 47 18 48 49 5 19 11 7 16 22 18 50 21 6 3 51 4 37 18 19 1 23 18 27 52 26 43 36 21 13 53 7 30 12 54 5 48 55 56 22 16 6 57 3 13 7 15 1 4 17 30 19 18 10 58 16 21 59 28 24 5 32 6 3 33 38 60 10 61 45 13 47 26 30 1 62 7 35 16 10 6 7 11 5 36 16 43 11 27 15 18 6 7 16 4 38 44 37 54 12 2 52 1 5 25 46 22 6 35 34 39 36 10 2 26 44 43 63 57 8 59 6 49 1 9 56 36 52 4 14 51 24 40 12 41 44 40 27 45 31 7 41 40 41 6 36 58 6 38 18 13 30 23 15 36 10 6 50 55 42 53 14 28 46 35 27 26 11 16 57 14 61 60 40 28 34 50 33 61 2 9 41 3 27 31 57 29 36 33 14 62 6 15 54 40 37 48 36 56 27 6 63 10 4 35 34 26 47 17 27 36 41 5 40 10 9 57 60 10 10 49 14 19 21 34 10 41 40 27 45 57 9 30 41 8 14 50 27 7 10 15 23 6 58 17 33 20 57 42 16 19 40 28 47 8 4 6 18 36 49 46 17 6 45 27 57 35 61 34 34 8 11 37 26
Here you go. I am glad that you find it interesting. One of my goals is to eventually make a bunch of different cryptograms with different types of cycles and different start and stop points, then compare to the 340 to get a cycle "signature" for the 340.
These are the stop positions for the cycles:
And these are the positions of the symbols that break the cycles:
Hey smokie,
Thank you. The last cipher was one with 2 seperate encodings, one from position 1 to 170 and the other from 171 to 340. I think it was reflected reasonable well in your stats.
Here’s another one. This one is solvable, I wonder if anyone could figure out what I did.
1 2 3 4 1 5 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 12 13 6 14 15 16 11 17 16 18 16 19 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 12 32 33 34 35 36 5 37 11 38 39 14 2 23 16 40 41 42 43 15 30 29 11 12 30 4 44 15 29 4 1 4 12 15 3 22 12 15 45 21 2 11 29 9 16 30 13 7 22 22 11 7 29 1 11 24 16 4 46 47 12 5 48 49 31 50 51 37 52 18 30 53 4 37 51 30 54 1 10 41 43 32 55 1 3 8 5 49 9 56 13 48 17 5 20 34 33 57 58 24 4 19 44 59 27 33 60 28 53 12 5 30 52 4 33 37 5 56 13 26 11 1 5 31 61 4 45 54 15 39 7 55 47 36 24 23 9 36 12 38 15 43 62 40 17 11 49 34 32 6 9 13 59 61 26 15 29 30 39 16 5 52 5 22 36 63 28 54 50 4 1 19 33 40 29 22 24 46 30 46 55 59 61 12 15 2 29 16 9 39 10 18 41 7 37 58 2 45 8 27 35 34 32 49 22 11 57 23 11 52 16 15 44 48 39 5 62 5 43 1 42 30 26 43 15 47 49 29 13 12 36 4 11 5 1 56 45 1 38 36 19 15 48 58 37 36 44 10 24 41 26 23 30 20 12 9 33 11 28 17 41 39 1 52 34 39 14 16 52 45 31 35 16 30 52 4 15 57 54 60 50 51 33 55 12 13 58 8 59 4 11 25 10 7 12 53 4 11 32 30 29 47
The last cipher was one with 2 seperate encodings, one from position 1 to 170 and the other from 171 to 340. I think it was reflected reasonable well in your stats.
That was a good idea. I don’t recall ever looking at the 340 upside down with the spreadsheet, and didn’t with you last one. But I can see that a lot of the stops are in the middle of the message. With only half a message, there would be fewer alternations; I didn’t look at lower counts of alternations. Exploring these variations is a good idea.
The last cipher was one with 2 seperate encodings, one from position 1 to 170 and the other from 171 to 340. I think it was reflected reasonable well in your stats.
That was a good idea. I don’t recall ever looking at the 340 upside down with the spreadsheet, and didn’t with you last one. But I can see that a lot of the stops are in the middle of the message. With only half a message, there would be fewer alternations; I didn’t look at lower counts of alternations. Exploring these variations is a good idea.
With a new measurement it is good to find out if it is useful, what can it do? So feed it stuff and get a feel for it. I have high hopes for your cycle starts and stops.
K I am going to make some slight modifications to automate things a lot more. Please do me a favor. The messages, equally space the symbols. Use 01 02 etc. with two digits each and one space between, or add an extra space when the symbol in only one digit. Thanks.
K I am going to make some slight modifications to automate things a lot more. Please do me a favor. The messages, equally space the symbols. Use 01 02 etc. with two digits each and one space between, or add an extra space when the symbol in only one digit. Thanks.
Okay, like this right?
1 2 3 4 1 5 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 12 13 6 14 15 16 11 17 16 18 16 19 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 12 32 33 34 35 36 5 37 11 38 39 14 2 23 16 40 41 42 43 15 30 29 11 12 30 4 44 15 29 4 1 4 12 15 3 22 12 15 45 21 2 11 29 9 16 30 13 7 22 22 11 7 29 1 11 24 16 4 46 47 12 5 48 49 31 50 51 37 52 18 30 53 4 37 51 30 54 1 10 41 43 32 55 1 3 8 5 49 9 56 13 48 17 5 20 34 33 57 58 24 4 19 44 59 27 33 60 28 53 12 5 30 52 4 33 37 5 56 13 26 11 1 5 31 61 4 45 54 15 39 7 55 47 36 24 23 9 36 12 38 15 43 62 40 17 11 49 34 32 6 9 13 59 61 26 15 29 30 39 16 5 52 5 22 36 63 28 54 50 4 1 19 33 40 29 22 24 46 30 46 55 59 61 12 15 2 29 16 9 39 10 18 41 7 37 58 2 45 8 27 35 34 32 49 22 11 57 23 11 52 16 15 44 48 39 5 62 5 43 1 42 30 26 43 15 47 49 29 13 12 36 4 11 5 1 56 45 1 38 36 19 15 48 58 37 36 44 10 24 41 26 23 30 20 12 9 33 11 28 17 41 39 1 52 34 39 14 16 52 45 31 35 16 30 52 4 15 57 54 60 50 51 33 55 12 13 58 8 59 4 11 25 10 7 12 53 4 11 32 30 29 47
Here’s another one. A mystery cipher with a randomized plaintext.
What do you mean by "randomized"? A jumble of plaintext letters with no readable words? Or a randomly selected message?
K I am going to make some slight modifications to automate things a lot more. Please do me a favor. The messages, equally space the symbols. Use 01 02 etc. with two digits each and one space between, or add an extra space when the symbol in only one digit. Thanks.
Okay, like this right?
1 2 3 4 1 5 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 12 13 6 14 15 16 11 17 16 18 16 19 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 12 32 33 34 35 36 5 37 11 38 39 14 2 23 16 40 41 42 43 15 30 29 11 12 30 4 44 15 29 4 1 4 12 15 3 22 12 15 45 21 2 11 29 9 16 30 13 7 22 22 11 7 29 1 11 24 16 4 46 47 12 5 48 49 31 50 51 37 52 18 30 53 4 37 51 30 54 1 10 41 43 32 55 1 3 8 5 49 9 56 13 48 17 5 20 34 33 57 58 24 4 19 44 59 27 33 60 28 53 12 5 30 52 4 33 37 5 56 13 26 11 1 5 31 61 4 45 54 15 39 7 55 47 36 24 23 9 36 12 38 15 43 62 40 17 11 49 34 32 6 9 13 59 61 26 15 29 30 39 16 5 52 5 22 36 63 28 54 50 4 1 19 33 40 29 22 24 46 30 46 55 59 61 12 15 2 29 16 9 39 10 18 41 7 37 58 2 45 8 27 35 34 32 49 22 11 57 23 11 52 16 15 44 48 39 5 62 5 43 1 42 30 26 43 15 47 49 29 13 12 36 4 11 5 1 56 45 1 38 36 19 15 48 58 37 36 44 10 24 41 26 23 30 20 12 9 33 11 28 17 41 39 1 52 34 39 14 16 52 45 31 35 16 30 52 4 15 57 54 60 50 51 33 55 12 13 58 8 59 4 11 25 10 7 12 53 4 11 32 30 29 47
Yeah, that’s perfect. Saves me a lot of time. Thanks.
Modifications complete for efficient analysis. You guys might like this, the 340, but I expanded the range of cycles to include all cycles. 1 CA would be AB. Top picture stop positions, bottom picture disrupter positions. Looks like there is a lot happening in column 8 and rows 9 and 10. But maybe I should change the range to 2 CA ( ABA ) or 3 CA ( ABAB ).
Hey smokie,
Thank you. The last cipher was one with 2 seperate encodings, one from position 1 to 170 and the other from 171 to 340. I think it was reflected reasonable well in your stats.
Here’s another one. This one is solvable, I wonder if anyone could figure out what I did.
1 2 3 4 1 5 6 7 8 1 9 10 11 12 13 6 14 15 16 11 17 16 18 16 19 15 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 12 32 33 34 35 36 5 37 11 38 39 14 2 23 16 40 41 42 43 15 30 29 11 12 30 4 44 15 29 4 1 4 12 15 3 22 12 15 45 21 2 11 29 9 16 30 13 7 22 22 11 7 29 1 11 24 16 4 46 47 12 5 48 49 31 50 51 37 52 18 30 53 4 37 51 30 54 1 10 41 43 32 55 1 3 8 5 49 9 56 13 48 17 5 20 34 33 57 58 24 4 19 44 59 27 33 60 28 53 12 5 30 52 4 33 37 5 56 13 26 11 1 5 31 61 4 45 54 15 39 7 55 47 36 24 23 9 36 12 38 15 43 62 40 17 11 49 34 32 6 9 13 59 61 26 15 29 30 39 16 5 52 5 22 36 63 28 54 50 4 1 19 33 40 29 22 24 46 30 46 55 59 61 12 15 2 29 16 9 39 10 18 41 7 37 58 2 45 8 27 35 34 32 49 22 11 57 23 11 52 16 15 44 48 39 5 62 5 43 1 42 30 26 43 15 47 49 29 13 12 36 4 11 5 1 56 45 1 38 36 19 15 48 58 37 36 44 10 24 41 26 23 30 20 12 9 33 11 28 17 41 39 1 52 34 39 14 16 52 45 31 35 16 30 52 4 15 57 54 60 50 51 33 55 12 13 58 8 59 4 11 25 10 7 12 53 4 11 32 30 29 47
You encoded RLBT? No cycles start on position 1, but a lot end on position 340. Stops are the same as starts when rotated 180 degrees. Seems like there are a lot more stops in row 20 then there are starts in row 1, so the stops are actually starts and the starts stops.
Here’s another one. A mystery cipher with a randomized plaintext.
What do you mean by "randomized"? A jumble of plaintext letters with no readable words? Or a randomly selected message?
Plaintext p1 where the letters have swapped places at random for so many iterations.
Modifications complete for efficient analysis. You guys might like this, the 340, but I expanded the range of cycles to include all cycles. 1 CA would be AB. Top picture stop positions, bottom picture disrupter positions. Looks like there is a lot happening in column 8 and rows 9 and 10. But maybe I should change the range to 2 CA ( ABA ) or 3 CA ( ABAB ).
I see that results differ much between changing cycle ranges. As you said, you will need to make allot of cryptograms and try to determine an optimal cycle range.
Modifications complete for efficient analysis. You guys might like this, the 340, but I expanded the range of cycles to include all cycles. 1 CA would be AB. Top picture stop positions, bottom picture disrupter positions. Looks like there is a lot happening in column 8 and rows 9 and 10. But maybe I should change the range to 2 CA ( ABA ) or 3 CA ( ABAB ).
I see that results differ much between changing cycle ranges. As you said, you will need to make allot of cryptograms and try to determine an optimal cycle range.
Yeah honestly I haven’t used the spreadsheet much. I made it then got sidetracked with Kasiski last spring / summer. I don’t know how to interpret it. Most cycles are false in any message, except for the longest ones. I am interested in working with the idea, but need to start from the top. A true message with perfect cycles compared with a message with all random symbol selection compared with a message with 50% random selection compared with 25% random selection. Learn from that and then move on. I need to make the picture a little bit smaller so that it can be viewed more easily.
What do you think of those disruptors at the end of row 10 an the beginning of row 11? Maybe nothing, but wondering about range optimization. You could have a cycle A = 1 2 3 4 5 and cycle perfectly. 1 and 5 could map to A, but in the first half of the message only get maybe 1 5 1 and that is it. Too bad I can only do L =2. I just don’t know what to make of the tool at this point.
What do you think of those disruptors at the end of row 10 an the beginning of row 11? Maybe nothing, but wondering about range optimization. You could have a cycle A = 1 2 3 4 5 and cycle perfectly. 1 and 5 could map to A, but in the first half of the message only get maybe 1 5 1 and that is it. Too bad I can only do L =2. I just don’t know what to make of the tool at this point.
I don’t know what to make of it because there is nothing to compare it against. I’m very skeptical of 2 encodings in a straightforward manner. But there are some things which really bug me about the encoding in the 340. I think that your cycle starts and stops may shed some light on it. But you have to find an optimal range and preferably stick with it and then thoroughly compare it to other cryptograms. I think L2 is just fine. They are like bigrams.
